Naval Architects of the Age of Sail

[Fluffy Fishy]

After having a few words with some people like @Malachi, @LeBoiteux and @Haratik I'd like to open up the discussion started on another thread looking at the relevance and legacy of the various architects of the period. There are a few household names that resonate with people with all levels of knowledge of the design basis of the period, The various people like Sane, Hunt, Chapman, Humphreys, Slade etc. but there are also people who are less well known who's work made great strides in technology or thought of the period, people like Seppings, Ollivier, Coulomb jnr. etc.

I personally consider Slade as the most notable architect of the period for his designs and tinkering with the ships that for many people define the period, no other shipwright can claim to have as many of their designs present at the major battles of the era and Victory, often considered the finest 1st rate of the period is unmistakably the most recognisable ship of the line in history. When it comes to personal preference I prefer Sane to Slade for actual designs, with some of the most extensive production designs in history with Temererie and Pallas. My personal favourite naval Architect of the Age of sail has to be the fairly unknown Andrea Gallina for his work coming up with the first super frigate, the Sant' Andrea in 1724 starting off the 6 designs of ships under the fregata grossa rating, designs that while relatively unknown to most people defined Venetian naval prowess of the period.

I'm curious who people consider to be the most iconic naval scientists and architects of the period, what ships they designed and the impacts they made. Who stands out to you and why? If you can include examples of their work, plans, treatises, models or any visual aids that would be great but any reasoning and discussion on the topic would be fantastic as a part of looking at an area not often given too much attention in the study of naval history.

 

[LIONOFWALES]

Good idea mate, a good call. That other thread was getting flooded by history buffs.

[Haratik]

51 minutes ago, LIONOFWALES said:

Good idea mate, a good call. That other thread was getting flooded by history buffs.

nothing wrong with that I hope.  It wasn't exactly off topic.

[Norfolk nChance]

@Fluffy Fishy

Great topic and agree with @Haratik hoping it takes off.

My short answer is Sane like you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques-Noël_Sané

The reasons will probably be different and I’ve got the history wrong somehow so please correct me. I’d like the link to the other thread, but of Sane’s three four major works this is the one reason why he stands out. The fact that his peers copied it reason enough.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Téméraire-class_ship_of_the_line

The Temeraire design is the main reason for me. How it was adopted, copied and tweaked then by the Royal Navy, Spanish and the Dutch. The sheer volume of ships produced of this type against others is testament to the change in warfare at sea. Even though it was a very costly build.

The ability to build massive line ships by most leading Nations wasn’t the issue with the likes of HMS Victory, L’Ocean or the Santisima Trinidad. The problem was bringing these massive gun platforms in a line to bear onto the enemy’s line to have a polite exchange.

The Permeant Fighting Instruction laid down by the Royal Navy and then adopted elsewhere allowed the ability to control many line ships at one go from a single Flag ship. Unfortunately, a Captain or Admiral from either side could quickly work out and see which line would in all likeliness win. This then leading to an Ossification to the English tactic with neither side actually ever engaging...

Fleet Tactics and Naval Operations by Hughes & Girrier

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1682473376/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Ch2 Tactical Development, Page 42 English Tactics Ossified

The 74-Gun third-rate Temeraire-class balanced fire power and speed in perfect harmony. Ships of similar size built at the time leaned either too much toward fire power at the loss of speed or vis-a-versa. The French adopting a distance type of hit and run attack against the sails and rigging sat perfectly with this type of ship.

https://forum.game-labs.net/topic/28367-14th-february-1797-battle-cape-st-vicent/

If time have a look at the battle details and Collingwood in the HMS Excellent. He caught up to heavier built Spanish ships and yet was still able to deliver enough alpha once they became in range.

Summary

Naval Warfare needed to change from the mid-1700s. I think Sane’s design of just this one class of ship helped progress fleet tactical engagements. Humphreys and Slade yes also contributed in their designs I agree. I would like to mention the Swedish shipbuilder Fredrik Henrik af Chapman and his thinking about the parabola method as well. This for the time was incredible.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fredrik_Henrik_af_Chapman

Would love to hear others views and thoughts. Great subject.

 

Norfolk

 

[LeBoiteux]

Blaise Ollivier (first half of the 18th century)

Blaise Ollivier gave the oldest and the most detailed definition of the corvette at his time and its uses : "A corvette is a small frigate with oars that carries 4-18 guns (...) used for privateering, escorting small fluyts, scouting and delivering orders and mails in the Navy". I haven't quoted all his technical recommandations but they can be seen in the plan of the graceful La Palme (12 4-pdr) made in 1744 by his son, Joseph-Louis, at the age of 15 year-old. It influenced the following plans, such as those of his sons' (see L'Amarante of 1747...).

Moreover, as @Malachi wrote in another thread, "the adoption of the modern frigate design by all the navies of Europe in the 1740s and 1750s  was due to the influence exerted by Ollivier's La Médée (Medea) and his sister ships" (Boudriot). Plans of La Médée at the Danish National Archives and in Boudriot's History of the French Frigate.

Other things could also be said about B. Ollivier, about his association with naval sculptor Caffieri and about his sons's work...

See also Malachi's post.

Edited March 11, 2019 by LeBoiteux

[Malachi]

A post about Ollivier without mentioning his Le Fleuron? Tststs.....;)

This ship not only set the standard for french 64-gun SoLs for decades (just like his Dauphin Royal did for the 70s), but also was one of the most elegant vessels of the Age of Sail, in my opinion.

 

And it was quite a milestone in the history of naval architecture, too, as it´s the first known example for the exact calculation of the weight of a vessel completely fitted out for sea service and of the displacement of the underwater hull (using Pierre Broguer's method of trapezoids ) at the design stage, an approach most probably pioneered by B. Ollivier.

Quote

Plans of La Médée at the Danish National Archives and in Boudriot's History of the French Frigate.

Here´s the only surviving plan of the 'mother of the classic frigate', La Medée:

 

It´s a pity that there´s no proper sheer plan, but the body plan is detailed enough to tell us that she had a very short quarterdeck and forecastle. This and the lack of a secondary armament were pretty radical features for the time and re-emerged half a century later with the advent of the flush-decked corvettes.

In 1744, La Medée became the first prize of the War of the Austrian Succession and then had a short -  if very successful -  career as as privateer, re-named Boscawen and armed with a mix of 30 9 - and 12-pounders on the upper deck ( yet, according to her captain, she still was 'a prime sailer').

By the way, Blaise Ollivier also left us an highly interesting insight into the building techniques of the british and dutch navies of the era, his Remarques sur la marine des Anglais et des Hollandais. These 'remarks' were the result of his travels - or rather, his industrial espionage mission - to these countries in 1737.

While we´re at it, it´s only fair to mention one figure whose work was a huge source of inspiration for B. Ollivier:  Blaise Pangalot.

Originally from Venice (or Naples, depending on the source), he went to France to work as a shipwright and was 'discovered' by Admiral de Tourville in the late 1670s.

With this kind of patronage and his exceptional talents , he quickly rose through the ranks and finally became master shipwright at Brest, the most senior position in the hierarchy of french naval engineers.

While in french service, he designed and built at least 23 vessels, including five first rates, but ships were (re-)built to his designs long after the end of his career. Ollivier came into direct contact with two of Pangalot´s vessels: he took off the lines of the highly regarded Le Lys during a rebuilt and served onboard L' Achille for six months (sea service was part of the training of a french shipwright). 

Pangalot´s ships were famed for stability, speed and weatherliness and when french naval doctrine changed from guerre d´escadre to the guerre de course, he was soon busy building large privateers, commissioned by René Duguay-Trouin and other french corsaires.

Blaise Pangalo (probably) died in 1714 in Brest, although it´s possible that he faked his own death in a rather creative effort to escape substantial financial troubles and - after a direct invitation by csar Peter I. -  continued to work in Russia until 1719.

 

 

Blaise Pangalot's Foudroyant (1693)

Edited April 5, 2019 by Malachi

[LeBoiteux]

Bibliography about B. Ollivier on Ancre. fr :

• B. Ollivier, Traité de construction navale (in French)
• B. Ollivier, Remarks on the Navies of the English and the Dutch (in French and English)
• G. Delacroix, 64-gun Le Fleuron 1729 (in French, Spanish, English, Italian)
• Also  lots of information about B.O. in Boudriot's History of the French frigate, La Renommée and La créole.

 

 

Edited March 12, 2019 by LeBoiteux

[Surcouf]

Pierre Morineau (1697-1764) is also found in France. He was a great Master Builder and also Master Chief Builder of Rochefort. He has produced several reference writings and built several ships and frigates (among others).

I was lucky enough to be able to handle his major manuscript "REPERTOIRE DE CONSTRUCTION" in Rochefort. A.N.C.R.E. édition has made a reproduction of it.

https://ancre.fr/en/reprint/44-repertoire-de-construction-pg-morineau-1763.html

P. Morineau has worked a lot on frigates.

[Ligatorswe]

Francis Sheldon, an english-swedish naval architect of the 1600s is also well worth looking into. He made the 126 cannon ship kronan. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kronan_(ship) 

Francis was born in 1612 and moved to Sweden in the 1650s and became the main naval architect of the Swedish navy. 

He had one son, Charles, that also became naval architect for the swedish navy. One grandson, gilbert Sheldon, became the main competitor to Chapman in the last part of the 1700s. He constructed almost 70 ships for the swedish navy.

http://samlarna.sjohistoriska.se/post/Alla-dessa-Sheldons

A fascinating family of very able naval architects.

When Francis came to Sweden he brought with him a shipmodel of an english warsip at the time. A model he himself had made. Here is a picture of that shipmodel.

 

Edited March 12, 2019 by Ligatorswe

[Malachi]

The next ship constructor I want to present is one whom I don´t consider the 'best' - that title should go to either Slade, Chapman or Ollivier, in my opinion - but certainly is one of my favourites:

Frantz C.H. Hohlenberg

 

Short Biography

Born in 1764, he enlisted in the danish navy in at the age of 12 and became second lieutenant in 1782. Higher mathematics and shipbuilding were a part of the curriculum at the danish naval academy and Hohlenberg´s talent in these fields were quickly recognised. He then began to study the finer points of naval architecture under the tutorship of fabrikmester*   Hendrik Gerner.

In 1788, Hohlenberg and another student, T. Jessen, were deemed experienced enough to go on the obligatory study trip through european shipyards. The Netherlands and England were first on the list, followed by France, Italy / Venice and finally Sweden. The stays in France (where he met J.-C.  de Borda) and Sweden particularly impressed Hohlenberg and were to have a lasting impact on his future work, especially the three months he spent studying under Hendrik af Chapman.

He returned to Denmark in 1794 and became a teacher at the naval academy, followed by the promotion to kaptajnløjtnant and interim fabrikmester in 1796.

In the same year, he submitted his first design - that of a 12-pounder frigate -  to the shipbuilding commission, featuring his own ideas and incorporating all the improvements he had seen during his study trip.

After this design has been approved, he became fabrikmester in 1797. But his tenure was to last just six years, cut short by the heavy criticism he received for his radical design concepts (and his fleet program) from the naval establishment which ultimately led to his resignation in 1803. He died on St. Croix in 1804.

All in all, Hohlenberg designed four ships of the line, thirteen frigates, three brigs and four schooners for the danish navy. Most of the bigger vessel were built after his death, though, from 1809 to 1817.

After the Second Battle of Copenhagen in 1807, all surviving Hohlenberg ships were incorporated into the Royal Navy. Especially the 80-gun Christian VII, generally considered as his masterpiece, was very highly regarded in british service (with the exception of the very narrow stern). It also has the distinction of being the only non-french design the Royal Navy copied, with an 80-gun ship, several 74s and 50s built to her lines.

Swift and very nimble for her size, she combined speed, sea keeping ability and a very robust construction and - unlike her captured french counterparts -  stood up easily to the rigors of british sea service.

The other Hohlenberg ships also seem to have left an impression on their captors:

'The Danish ship Christian the Seventh, when commanded by Sir Joseph Yorke, had the first character in the English Navy as a man of war; and the Danemark and Norge, ships of war - and Venus, Danish frigate, alike shew that a very small maritime power excelled the proud ruler of the main in ship-building.'

British Chronicle, 1827

 

*a post similar to the british surveyor

 

The Ships

 

Christian VII, 90 guns (as designed: 180 fod, 30 36-pounders, 32 24-pounders, 6 12-pounders, 16 36-pound carronades, 6 12-pound carronades)

 

Norge, 74 guns (as designed: 170 fod,  32 36-pounders, 34 18-pounders, 8 36-pound carronades)

 

Perlen, 24-pounder frigate (as designed: 150 fod 6 tom, 26 24-pounders, 12-pounders, 8 24-pound carronades)

 

Venus, 18-pounder frigate (as designed: 139 fod, 26 18-pounders, 4 6-pounders, 6 18-pound carronades)

 

Najaden, 12-pounder frigate (as designed: 136 fod, 30 12-pounders, 8 24-pound carronades)

 

Fylla, light frigate/corvette (as designed: 115 fod, 20 30-pound carronades, 4 8 pounders)

 

 

Edited April 5, 2019 by Malachi

[Haratik]

Spanish Naval Architects:

 

Reserved.  Picked up my copy of Harbron's book and started reading it.  Will post when I have something solid.

[LeBoiteux]

@Haratik Hoping we'll get info about Spanish shipbuilders of typical Mediterranean designs (xebec, felluca, polacre...), such as the Majorcan shipbuilders who built Le Requin and the other xebecs for the French Navy.

[Haratik]

On 3/21/2019 at 4:46 AM, LeBoiteux said:

@Haratik Hoping we'll get info about Spanish shipbuilders of typical Mediterranean designs (xebec, felluca, polacre...), such as the Majorcan shipbuilders who built Le Requin and the other xebecs for the French Navy.

I'll do my best!  Though it does seem as if Harbron was mostly focused on the ships of the line and their architects.  I haven't found anything concrete on smaller warships yet, but I'm looking for other sources online!