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Replace thickness by HP in mast mods

Replace mast thickness buff with HP buff  

31 members have voted

  1. 1. Should, regarding mast mods, the mast thickness buff get replaced by a (higher) mast HP buff?

    • Yes
      21
    • No
      9
    • Other suggestion
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Mast mods.

Generally, I am under the impression that upgrades do not equal an autowin. However, especially in the solo patrol 1v1 area, a ship with kirimati masts and (elite) french rig refit, facing one without any of those, WILL win.

Expensive Gear being necessary in order to be competetive isn't really ideal IMHO.

Hence the poll.

Should, regarding mast mods, the mast thickness buff get replaced by a (higher) mast HP buff?

Not sure on the values. But by buffing thickness you basically make it IMPOSSIBLE to demast, and therefore grant a safe win vs. a ship without that perk. Whereas buffing HP (maybe by 30-50%), without touching the thickness, should make it a little bit more balanced.

Perhaps it would be good to either remove those top notch upgrades or just make them more accessible.

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Please leave it as it is. Nerv cannon accuracy to make mast shooting harder. Nerving mast protection only because of the PvP zone (and I get your point there) would be not good for casual players in all other situations.

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1 minute ago, Sir Loorkon said:

Please leave it as it is. Nerv cannon accuracy to make mast shooting harder. Nerving mast protection only because of the PvP zone (and I get your point there) would be not good for casual players in all other situations.

Why would not be good?.

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I have been asking for changes to one sided battles for a while now. HP is not the way to go. Mast base thickness is to low and mast mods should not give you thickness buff.

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21 minutes ago, Costa de Castilla said:

Why would not be good?.

A player should have the chance to make his masts nerly immune. Otherwise an average player would have no chance against a mast shooter. It does not matter if he needs 7 or 9 (more HP) shots. It only matters if he can penetrate (thickness) or not.

Edited by Sir Loorkon
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1 minute ago, Sir Loorkon said:

Please leave it as it is. Nerv cannon accuracy to make mast shooting harder. Nerving mast protection only because of the PvP zone (and I get your point there) would be not good for casual players in all other situations.

Ok, different example:

Vet x + vet y visit KPR in 1st rates with super buffed mast thickness. They find themselves a fleet of 10 organized British lineships, without any mast mods. They take their time and snipe one mast after another, start sinking the first ships. Now, the brits try to stop them by demasting aswell and hit them a total of 500 times close up - but guesd what. None of those hits did any damage. By then, they lost all their masts and havr become fishfood.

That battle will most likely make them quit, having them call BS on demasting and / or calling cheats.

So no, it is not only linked to the pvp zone. Leaving mast mods as they are now is bad for everyone including Casuals.

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9 minutes ago, Sir Loorkon said:

Please leave it as it is. Nerv cannon accuracy to make mast shooting harder. Nerving mast protection only because of the PvP zone (and I get your point there) would be not good for casual players in all other situations.

so you want to nerf the only thing long guns have over carros and poods atm? If long guns accuracy was nerfed please explain to me why the **** I would use them ever again?

Edited by HachiRoku

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3 minutes ago, Liq said:

So no, it is not only linked to the pvp zone. Leaving mast mods as they are now is bad for everyone including Casuals.

I think you have an argument in my favour. In your example the casual player shound run mastmods and they would have a good chance. If they do not, they have and should have a problem. 

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Kirimati mast and elite French does not grow on threes. We tested kirimati mast on 2 Niagaras, and they demasted each other with 3 hits. Carros has been nerfed since then, but I think we should have the option to make demasting impossible if we want to, but with a draw back. Some players will always go for mast, usually they have been auto winners when they demast first. So I do not see a problem with stacking very expensive mods that are hard to get.

You should be flattered, the ships with those mods are purpose built to fight you! :P But you can still chain, board, sink them by leaks or damage, so what's the issue? xD 

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Just now, Sir Loorkon said:

I think you have an argument in my favour. In your example the casual player shound run mastmods and they would have a good chance. If they do not, they have and should have a problem. 

How do casuals get access to Elite french rig refit and kirimati masts? 

Thats the whole point of this thread

If you need to have those super rare and expensive Mast mods to be Competitive, something is not right in the game Balance

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6 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

so you want to nerf the only thing long guns have over carros and poods atm? If long guns accuracy was nerfed please explain to me why the **** I would use them ever again?

No I want not to nerv accuracy to the bottom. Just a bit so running longs still makes sense but even a good player like you needs more time to dismast. In the moment it is just to easy.

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3 minutes ago, Liq said:

How do casuals get access to Elite french rig refit and kirimati masts? 

Thats the whole point of this thread

If you need to have those super rare and expensive Mast mods to be Competitive, something is not right in the game Balance

Thats why I suggested to nerv the accuracy. A normal french and a nerved accuracy should be a good protection. Not invincible, but good enough to make every player think if there could be an alternative to dismasting.

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6 minutes ago, Sir Loorkon said:

No I want not to nerv accuracy to the bottom. Just a bit so running longs still makes sense but even a good player like you needs more time to dismast. In the moment it is just to easy.

its impossible to dismast certain mast modded ships. How can you buff masts to take more than infinite hits?

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 The new damage model has made  the demasting issue more pronounced than it was (and was kinda an issue before in my humble opinion).

 Not sure what the answer is but titanium mast builds are out of balance i think,  and no mast mod builds are perhaps to weak.

 I think most issues are caused by stacking, and perhaps there lies the answer by capping stacked mods books at a lower level perhaps.

 

 

 

Edited by Dibbler

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1 minute ago, HachiRoku said:

its impossible to dismast certain mast modded ships. How can you buff masts to take more than infinite hits?

You are right. We know that stacking mods or very expensive mods can make masts immune. Thats OK for me but that was not my point.

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3 minutes ago, Sir Loorkon said:

You are right. We know that stacking mods or very expensive mods can make masts immune. Thats OK for me but that was not my point.

no not by stacking kirtmati masts alone are enough to make the battle 100% one sided. If the only counter to a mod is the same mod then there is a design flaw in the combat system.....Masts are completely broken for some time now. 

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25 minutes ago, Sir Loorkon said:

No I want not to nerv accuracy to the bottom. Just a bit so running longs still makes sense but even a good player like you needs more time to dismast. In the moment it is just to easy.

 

14 minutes ago, Sir Loorkon said:

You are right. We know that stacking mods or very expensive mods can make masts immune. Thats OK for me but that was not my point.

 

 So in first comment your saying dismast is to easy,  but then say it's ok to have invincible masts?

Maybe is a language thing but don't quite understand.

 Surely invincible is just as bad as masts falling like matchsticks, answer is somewhere in middle perhaps?

 

 

Edited by Dibbler
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Dismasting is the most effective way to win a fight its kind of crap all around. The ship trying to dismast has no idea of weather or not the other ship can even be dismasted. The ship being dismasted has no idea how damaged their masts are. The only thing I can think of is to lower mast thickness buffs, buff the HP in turn. Then provide a indicator just like hull to show the masts damage.

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20 minutes ago, Dibbler said:

So in first comment your saying dismast is to easy,  but then say it's ok to have invincible masts?

 Maybe is a language thing but don't quite understand.

If you are willing to spend the money for an very expensive kirimati mast or you are willing to sacrifice some perma slots to stack average mast protection, the mast should be save. My point is that an average player with an average ship and average money and an average mast protection should have a better chance against a mast shooter. Mast shooting (and hitting) is just to easy atm. My suggestion is nerfing the accuracy, not to the bottom but to an ammount that you need maybe double the time and shoots to hit and bring the mast down. 

Refering to the theme of this thread I do think that solving the problem in the way Liq suggested might solve the problem for the duel zone but create a much bigger problem in the OW. I agree to HachiRoku that masts are completly broken.

Edited by Sir Loorkon

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20 minutes ago, Sir Loorkon said:

My point is that an average player with an average ship and average money and an average mast protection should have a better chance against a mast shooter.

An average player with 1 mast mod, cheap regular french refit, will still get demasted in no time vs a ship with Elite french rig and kirimati

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I do agree thickness to replaced by hp, provided accuracy for  single shot sniping gets nerfed. 

I would say nerf single shot accuracy to a point where you can not reliably single snipe masts and break them. Instead you need luck and a full broadside to have a chance to break masts.

What changes ? 

You have to spend your whole broadside, while exposing your hull to a full broadside, so this is the trade off. This is your luck, you win with broadsides to masts and disabling enemy, or enemy can win just shooting your hull.

You just can not wait cool headed, sniping masts with single shots and counting them, the broadside to your hull can be devastating. The battle turns more into a covering weaksides and looking for other ships weak side etc., in the heat of this battle, broadsides to masts are your lucky option when you do not have the chance to put a perfect broadside on the hull. This is much more of a skill involving manuel sailing, speed control, wind control, compared to counter strike headshot skill.

 

My thoughts about single shot sniping masts;

Single shot sniping is most stupid ever thing in this game. A round big ball which is not super uniform, it is fired like a shotgun shell, not like a sabot shot, the drag and coriolis effects, so unpredictable trajectory without a good sight/aiming system. Area effect is what happens when broadside is fired, damaging an overall area, but sniping masts like a sniper, really ?

We all know mast breakdowns come from mostly total rigging damage, missing support ropes etc., assymetrical forces. I can understand 2-3 rounds hitting a mast by chance, but hitting the same mast 6-7 times by sniping, it is bullshit. A round thick mast, hit by a round ball, can not always result in a breakdown, you have to hit exactly center of the mast, hitting sides can damage a bit, but some of the energy will be deflected and some will be consumed by the mast and supports.

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2 hours ago, Sir Loorkon said:

You are right. We know that stacking mods or very expensive mods can make masts immune. Thats OK for me but that was not my point.

No that's really not ok. It's a problem and one to be fixed sooner rather than later.

Edited by Slim McSauce

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5 hours ago, Aerospace said:

coriolis effects

That has NOTHING to do with cannonballs.

In any case; Mast sniping is a skill-based representation of damaging support rigging, it was never meant to be understood "literally".

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