PvE PvP rehashed idea with vigour

[Einarr]

Howdy doody neighbourinos. 

PvE and PvP are a hot mess given that the PvErs hate the idea of moving to the PvP server, yet use 1% of the map in the first place.

Given that there is about to be a holistic cleaning of the database perhaps now is the best time to think about the PvE kiddy pool within the PvP server. It's already sort of there in the form of reinforcement zones, and an international zone (neutral non-capturable ports) in one corner of the map wouldn't go astray seeing how the population is slightly lean for now. What's more it'll give PvErs something to do and take away the awful leap from going from PvE to PvP by creating a new character. 

 

The main tenants for the justification of the rehashing of this idea.

1. International zone (PvE zone with neutral non-capturable ports and a non-PvP zone around it) can have all the goods and produce available to produce and craft (minus teak/lo/wo/mah/sab/cag/berm) in order to incentivise venturing out. Shipyards in that area can build any ship, but with the same penalty as the non-capturable/freeports do now. This way it prevents the abuse of the safe-zones. 

2. No great leap to change server. PvErs will have the chance to literally just sail out into the PvP zone and be jolly there with the normal players. 

3. Limiting XP gain from fighting AI can help with enticing the players to find other places to play than the safe zone also. Half XP for kills in the safe zone could be a good balance.

4. The map is hugenormous and while not totally empty, is very saturated with small pockets of active areas. I feel as though an addition like this could help fill up the maps and even give a platform for growth past the release. 

5. A PvP buffer timer should exist for when you exit and leave the safe zone. Once you leave, after 2 minutes you become PvP meat. Once you re-enter to prevent misuse of the safe zone, you have a 5 minute timer giving you plenty of time to be chased down if there was a possibility of being chased.

 

This has been suggested before yes, but in the current climate I think it fits best now. Thanks for your appreciation and love. : ) 

Edited March 7, 2019 by Einarr
woods - goods/produce

[Jan van Santen]

17 minutes ago, Einarr said:

1) ....yet use 1% of the map in the first place......

....about the PvE kiddy pool within the PvP server...

2) .. International zone (PvE zone with neutral non-capturable ports and a non-PvP zone around it) can have all the goods and produce available to produce and craft (minus teak/lo/wo/mah/sab/cag/berm) in order to incentivise venturing out. Shipyards in that area can build any ship, but with the same penalty as the non-capturable/freeports do now.

 

1) try w/o prejudice ?

2) discussion of your proposal ends for PvE'ers  at this point:  PvE does not want to sail into forced PvP zones to obtain woods or craft better ships. We also don't want to share toxic chat, alt infested server, ganking and the unpleasant atmosphere. Most of the population of PvE server has bad experiences w PvP and hardly ever goes back again except for cashing in redeemables....

A better suggestion that would also attract at lot more players.:

Get rid of forced/ganking PvP and integrate voluntary PvP as endgame into one large  PvE/PvP server. Add some PvEvP (instanced port battles for rewards and not actual possession of ports eg).

 

Edited March 7, 2019 by Jan van Santen

[Einarr]

Instanced battles unfortunately would remove from the concept of OW Naval Action. Login, Load in, Battle type of gaming seems to be against what the devs were hoping for. 

Also yeah sorry I don't really like the PvE server personally given the tone of the game killed my interest. If I hadn't gotten into PvP I think I would have dropped the game. I know it's different for everyone but that malice is to the type of Naval Action they play rather than aimed at any particular PvEr. 

The idea that you think will draw in more players would probably only draw in casual players, which the current PvE server already would support, as would the "PvE zone idea". I have a feeling that new PvPers need guidance from other players more than the option to play on easy mode, but the international safezone would give that already too. 

Also toxic nation chats exist wherever, there also exists clan chats which are from my experience very, very rarely toxic and very supportive. Longtime players never seem willing to just toss new players into the dust like I imagine some think is the case.

They've curbed ganking already by having a l'ocean able to jump into a battle between a Cutter and a Navybrig. The "PvE kiddy pool" idea still gives PvErs somewhere to splash around and avoid being ganked if they aren't into it. Right now PvE server seems to have players sitting outside ports waiting for ships to come by. Not sure if the new group kill missions would have affected that of course. 

[Jan van Santen]

1 minute ago, Einarr said:

I. Right now PvE server seems to have players sitting outside ports waiting for ships to come by. 

Again try w/o prejudice...or log in and actually check whats going on onPvE server, both in guiding and helping new players (instead of ganking them ...) and in "sitting" outside of port which made me laugh hard. Hint : we can have 8 op's spread over the map for trading and hunting w/o being ganked and we have way more possibilities for op spread, since there are default national ports on PvE server only.  

As to instanced PvPvE: Guild Wars, (7 Million players) Runes of Magic ($ Million) , Neverwinter (2 Million..) ...

I've played all 3 of them and enjoyed the PvP and PvEvP there. Also the concept of a naval history based game and that of hardcore/ganking PvP have but a very small common playerbase.

Naval History doesnt interest your avg  school to mid 20's aged  Hardcore PvPer. And vice versa.

If ...the devs aim for a larger and stable playerbase, they need to shift focus away from hardcore and thus away from ganking PvP altogether.

The sooner, the better (or release NA 2 or a sp non server version)

[Einarr]

Don't see where the idea of a PvE zone on a single server would detract from that idea. Trading happens in PvP without ganking plenty already. There's only a matter of finding the best routes within the game. 

I do think the devs should appease the casuals more but there's a point where maybe having two servers on a massive map might call for a mix at some point. 

Anyway, if the boring server was to stay, the addition of a newbie PvE kiddy pool might help out new players and not force them into seal-clubbing territory straight away. I think it can exist without the need to "remove" the PvE server. This was just a suggestion if having two servers became too much. I didn't realise that the PvE server wasn't getting wiped. Could even warrant the removal of reinforcement zones. 

 

Side note: I'm mid-20s and have been interested in napoleonic era history for a long time. What's more is that there's way more young people playing the game than I think some would expect. 

Edited March 7, 2019 by Einarr
PS:

[Jan van Santen]

24 minutes ago, Einarr said:

Anyway, if the boring server was to stay, 

 

Again, try w/o prejudice...all your posts contain these belitteling expressions....see, thats one of the reasons why mature players (we have many twice your age) dont want to play on PvP server. 

Edited March 7, 2019 by Jan van Santen

[Einarr]

Argue the point not my "demeanor"

[Alonso Alvarado]

1.- There are a lot of people who don´t like to play pvp on a MMO game. Why? They know the type of players who play on it. This is not the first post about this in the last weeks. What do you want?....More people to gank?

2.- As i said in another post, think about the reasons due to you are lossing players in your pvp server and why pve server is gaining them. People bought the game in early access thinking about to play versus engine. Don´t they have rights?...Why must they be restringed in the small part of map when they can play in a full map at other games?

3.- We are talking about 2 different communities of players. If you are in a toxic community at pvp server and you are lossing players everyday, then it is your problem man.

[Einarr]

20 minutes ago, Alonso Alvarado said:

1.- There are a lot of people who don´t like to play pvp on a MMO game. Why? They know the type of players who play on it. This is not the first post about this in the last weeks. What do you want?....More people to gank?

More people to gank in a PvE safe zone? how does that work? You casuals always talk as if we only want more seals to club. How would that benefit the game and why does it sound like rhetoric to keep people from playing it. 

20 minutes ago, Alonso Alvarado said:

Why must they be restringed in the small part of map when they can play in a full map at other games?

Good point, thanks. I'm only trying to come up with the best way of having both communities combined. I did suggest just above your comment that maybe it could happen in PvP server while PvE server still exists also. Can give newbies a taste.

20 minutes ago, Alonso Alvarado said:

think about the reasons due to you are lossing players in your pvp server and why pve server is gaining them

Ever think it's because they're going to be playing a futile game before the wipe? PvE isn't getting the wipe apparently so It's not surprising that there's less people wanting to play on PvP til wipe happens. Happens in every game. Don't pat yourself too hard on the back for being "non-toxic". 

 

Most of all I hate reinforcement zones. It's abused way too much and provides only metagaming to fill in where strategy/tactics fall away. (and yes, ganking is a strategy that you can avoid by using intelligent strategy. I know it's foreign to PvE players and it was foreign to me at first too.) This could work regardless of the status of PvE. Reinforcement zones are useful at first for newbies to prevent being seal clubbed but overall it's overused by higher level players as a safety zone where there needn't be. 

 

Edited March 7, 2019 by Einarr
clarity

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

Not again this discussion. Live in your world and let us have ours.

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

3 hours ago, Einarr said:

yet use 1% of the map in the first place.

And how you dare assume that?

All ports are frequented and thus used.

[Einarr]

Read the thread a bit more than the first post Cetric. This could work on PvP alone and ignore PvE

[Einarr]

If PvE had to die, what would you prefer? forced PvP or this?

[Dibbler (Retired)]

52 minutes ago, Einarr said:

If PvE had to die, what would you prefer? forced PvP or this?

 

 I play on the PvP server but I suspect that there would be a number of players on PvE that would take an option that you seem to have overlooked,  and go play something else perhaps. 

Lets face it the boost in server pop from global/EU merge was short lived and they were both PvP servers. Also how many minutes do you think it would be with your suggestion until some started a campaign to enter the PvE area as they do now with rienforcement zones?

Good idea on paper but PvE and PvP people tend to be at the opposite ends of gaming thought and opinion in my experience, although perhaps i could be wrong i guess.

 

 

Edited March 8, 2019 by Dibbler

[Hethwill]

Yesterday there were 280 hands in the Peace server, against some 180 in the War server, right at the twilight of EU zone and start of East Coast of the Americas time.

Interesting, isn't it ?

 

[BallsOfSteel]

PVE players paid the same as PVP 

Entitled to the whole map, not just a zone.

If PVP had testers instead of a whole bunch of wankers dedicated to nothing but bleeding the game maybe.

Until then hands off. there are more PVE players now than PVP for a reason.

 

[Teutonic]

I've said it before.

We shouldn't force players who want to play PvE to be on a PvP server when there are groups on the PvP server that purposefully try and make their lives difficult.

Players should encourage pve minded folks by helping them, not by telling them they should sink in pvp.

I constantly wish for more players, and our most recent recruits are players who came from the PvE server. It is important to allow them to do what they want and create a nice community together. We have done some pvp with them and they have enjoyed it,l and sometimes they don't enjoy it.

The important thing is to create the environment for PvE to thrive while the wolves try and break it down.

[Angus MacDuff]

The problem is that there are players who complain (beg, plead) when they get tagged.  It's a PVP server and a sandbox game so there is plenty for everyone.  You just can't reasonably expect to sail safely wherever you want to go.  Most players who do PVE on the war server understand this (since most of us do a little PVE no and then).  I'd like to point out that trading on the War Server is not PVE.   

12 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

Players should encourage pve minded folks by helping them, not by telling them they should sink in pvp.

We tell PVP players that they are going to sink.  I agree that we should help PVE minded players by giving them good advice, but at the end of the day, they cannot be completely protected. 

I say leave the Peace server alone as long as people want to use it and it is sustainable by the Devs.

Edited March 8, 2019 by Angus MacDuff

[Teutonic]

52 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

The problem is that there are players who complain (beg, plead) when they get tagged.  It's a PVP server and a sandbox game so there is plenty for everyone.  You just can't reasonably expect to sail safely wherever you want to go.  Most players who do PVE on the war server understand this (since most of us do a little PVE no and then).  I'd like to point out that trading on the War Server is not PVE.   

We tell PVP players that they are going to sink.  I agree that we should help PVE minded players by giving them good advice, but at the end of the day, they cannot be completely protected. 

I say leave the Peace server alone as long as people want to use it and it is sustainable by the Devs.

I know there are those who complain/beg, and I know that no matter how much we'd do, some people can't be fully protected, that's just how the PvP server operates.

I just feel that we as a community "could" encourage everyone to come play in the PvP pool by being a whole lot 'nicer.' I've done it by supporting all the players in my clan by rebuilding ships for them no matter what circumstance. that' may not be enough for a number of players, but it's certainly helped create an atmosphere of enjoyment with everyone. 

i don't know if you'd be surprised to hear, but some clans will threaten players that they won't replace ships if they sink too much but still demand those player contribute to the clan warehouse. it's actually sad because it creates a mentality that lowers PvP and increases the likelihood that these players only will PvP when they are 100% certain they won't sink.

EDIT: but yes, leave the peace server as is, players enjoy it, let them enjoy it. Instead of PVP players complaining about how they can't sink them and the population is too low, maybe do something to encourage more people to play.

Edited March 8, 2019 by Teutonic

[Farrago]

I just don't see this happening.

Many PVE players are where they are because they want no involvement with the War server. They want to trade, craft, and cooperatively kill AI.

The hope is we don't always have an empty map. Making the map smaller will not be good with 1500 players online. (One can always dream.)

The only way I see it working is if a new region such as the Pacific was opened and the Panama Canal was built really early. The only way between the two areas was in an empty basic cutter.

BUT I am totally in favor of rank and crafting XP tied to Steam so that players can go back and forth between servers.

 

Edited April 19, 2019 by Farrago

[jodgi]

On 3/7/2019 at 11:30 AM, Einarr said:

about the PvE kiddy pool within the PvP server.

Nice, you shot your own "suggestion" dead in the third line.

On 3/8/2019 at 10:46 AM, Hethwill said:

Interesting, isn't it ?

It is. But I doubt the effect will last beyond our current pre-wipe depression. It would be hilarious if it did, and I don't mean in spite.

It annoys me that the gankers and revenge gankers have managed to coin their safety based playing style as hardcore. It's so softcore it's embarrassing.

I bet the duel feature would work better on PVE than PVP server. PVE players have per definition showed more integrity by opting out of the gank or be ganked world. That shit is for the weak.

[Macjimm]

Using PvE'rs to add targets to the war server won't work.  

There are PvPers that want a larger population.  They look at the Peace server as their source of more players.  For a long time I've heard arguments to change or delete the Peace server.   Players using terms like "boring server" and "kiddie's pool" should try to attract more players to the war server, not wreck the Peace server.

Many PvE'rs avoid PvP because of toxic attitudes and the perceived broken NA combat.   If the Peace server is deleted or merged, we will lose most of the PvE'rs who are avoiding PvP and toxicity. They will not just allow themselves to be forced into gameplay they dislike. They will quit.

Save the Peace server.  Leave it alone.