Exotic wood and rare materials deliveries cost

[OjK]

Hi there!

I'd strongly suggest to reconsider using Doubloons for ordering Live Oak, Copper Ingots etc. if the port spawns the goods. Why? Quite a few reasons:

First of all, let's look at the dramatic price increase of Ships of The Line with exotic wood beeing paid by Doubloons.
With old system, where Doubloons use was quite limited, the price stabilised on +-25 Reals.
Now, with Doubloons beeing much more important it's guaranteed that the price will rise quite a lot.
But even if not, let's look how does that effect the cost of L'Ocean.

1) Old System

Many people, were able to buy the Teak and White Oak for not more than triple digit amount. From time to time, You could even get both of the woods for 50 Reals per piece. Sometimes even cheaper.
With proper economy management You could as a clan reach a stable price on that levels.

With wood priced that way, L'Ocean T/WO would cost about 500,000 Reals if we stick to 25/1 Doubloon price on the market.

2) New System

With 5000 wood beeing priced at 50.000 Doubloons, the price for L'Ocean rises up incredibly.

With 1 unit of wood hard coded price will be 10 Doubloons, the overall cost of wood multiplies 500% just in INITIAL PRODUCTION. And that's only if the market will stay at 25 Reals per Doubloon exchange rate. However, let's remember that with great increase of importance of Doubloons, the price will raise a lot. I'll be happy if it stablizes at 2x, with 50 Reals per Doubloon, but that might not be the case.

With exotic wood beeing priced at 250 Reals per unit (10 Doubloons x 25 reals) the price of the ship would rise 1,200,000 Reals - that's already 240%

With unavoidable increse of Doubloons price (with many people not selling the Doubloons at all anyway now) the general increase to 50 Real per Doubloon that will be already 2,000,000 Reals

With market setting up at 100 Reals per Doubloon, that will be 4,000,000 Reals

And we are talking PRODUCTION price here. F.e. clan building etc. Just imagine how the prices will look on the open market, if crafters will decide to earn something on that as well.

 

The price for delivery contract needs to be adjusted, otherwise we'll kill the RvR again, as the cost of taking the port would be ten times bigger than positive income.

 

Side note 1:

There is also a big need for adjusting the mission price depending on the wood. If the mission cost will look the same for all woods, most likely only Live Oak, White Oak and Teak will be extracted.
Caguarian and Sabicu had their place in the game only because they were cheaper alternatives. With no difference here, everyone will go for LO or WO - no point going for Caguarian if it's no longer cheap option.

 

Side note 2:

Maybe use Reals for Deliver Missions? With tax of the mission beeing applied, so the spike on the port income could indicate where did the wood dropped, so players would have some indication where to look for next targets in RvR?

 

Edited March 2, 2019 by OjK

[AeRoTR]

@OjK and @Intrepido

I think SOL crafting price should be huge, cause they are rulers of sea now. You need to have a reason to sail in a 1st rate around !

Problem is with RVR as you guys brought up, so RVR should give more rewards, it should be capturing treasures of enemy nation in that port which contains lots of dubloons / gold / silver chests. So pressure of RVR will be very high but rewards should be much better for the RVR BATTLE INSTANCE, think it about the new "GROUP KILL" mission.

You should claim it after winning RVR battle just like missions, Dubloons + Reals + Gold and Silver Chests. 

This approach will boost RVR, rvr is the end game of NA, so looking to other MMO (successful ones), end game is very risky, but comes with huge rewards.

[OjK]

@AeRoTR You really think a clan which will loose not only port, but with Your proposed changes also their warehouses (therefore also a ship production capabilities) will continue playing?
We'll have less and less players with every lost PB.
The NA is hardcore already, don't make it even more hardcore, cause noone will play it anymore.

And whoever tried sailing "cheaper" 1st rates against expensive ones knows that's quite pointless.
I did it many times when sailed under Polish flag, as we couldn't afford top ships for screening actions around Caribbean.

 

The new idea seems ok - but needs a DEEP reconsideration of prices

Edited March 2, 2019 by OjK

[Sir Loorkon]

5 minutes ago, AeRoTR said:

This approach will boost RVR, rvr is the end game of NA, so looking to other MMO (successful ones), end game is very risky, but comes with huge rewards.

I think you nailed it. It is the same for PvP rewards. The task should be: Do not force people to do something, make them want to do it. 

Edited March 2, 2019 by Sir Loorkon

[s2bu]

As long as they didnt change the availability of doubloons (--> ai traders, and those still have the chance to drop wood as well - this post is written under the assumption this didnt change) i think i'm fine with spending 35k doubloons for 5k wood.

However as you mentioned - the fact that all woods are trated the same although they clearly arent the same in quality is weird, counterproductive and obviously flawed...

 

But as the wipes are still looming overhead and everything we do is basically in vain anyways i'll just not worry about anything. The devs will figure it out eventually and make NA great again. I'll just play something else in the meantime.

Edited March 2, 2019 by s2bu

[OjK]

2 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

35k for 5k?

Im seeing 75k for 5k of rare woods.

That's a good sign! The prices should be different. Can You name the wood with the price?

 

I also wonder on the side effect of port upkeeps with this changes.
Many ports were upkeeping all the clan by simply beeing a port where everyone was overbidding for rare woods.

If now there are no markets, but just "pay doubloons and get it" overall income from ports will drop by a big amount.

[s2bu]

hmm   

25k for 5k sabicu in little cayman

35k for 5k cag in carriacou

35k for 5k cag in george town

 

so i guess the price either changes as people do the missions or they are different for different woods...

 

back to playing war thunder now   ;o)

Edited March 2, 2019 by s2bu

[OjK]

18 minutes ago, Sir Loorkon said:

I think you nailed it. It is the same for PvP rewards. The task should be: Do not force people to do something, make them want to do it. 

You think so?

Just pay the smaller clan some extra doubloons, and they will simply ship it to You by trade.
With pool of 1 million wood, they're not gonna use it by themselves in about few years.

So with increased prices of the ship, I'm pretty sure RvR will not "flourish".

There will be much easier, cheper and less expensive ways of "dealing" with the clan who owns the port.

[Sir Loorkon]

4 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

White oak is 75k.

 Still the point remains. It is expensive as hell.

 Perhaps 35k is for woods like caguairan, which is a shit wood that doesnt deserve to be so stupidily expensive.

White oak is only good for planking, so it is good to keep the price high because you need much less wood for planking. But all woods that are (only) used for frame should be cheaper. Cagurian is a mediocre frame wood. You need lots of it. So 35k is to high. Maybe 35k would be a good price for live oak. The price for teak wood is the most interesting one. Its the most common one for frame (you need a lot) but also used for planking (less needed). So may be 50k would be OK for teak. 

[OjK]

Look at the "cost" of getting the port.

Imagine a 5000 BR port

That would require group of 10 people, doing 2 hostility missions.

Each of them repairs once during the battle, - thats 2 battles x 10 ships x 80 hull repairs = 1600 hull repairs.
1600 hull repairs = 160,000 Reals which is about 6400 Doubloons with current 1/25 ratio

Then, we have a Port battle, where we use another 160,000 Reals for repairs. That's already 13.000 Doubloons.

Let's imagine You loose (just) one first rate in the process. Thats another 25.000 Doubloons for ship only with new model of aquisition of exotic wood (not counting the refits!)

So basically, even at best scenario, it cost You 40.000 Doubloons to get the port.
Plus You need to waste time on stupid hostility mission.

And even if You take the port You no longer can earn on it, cause there is no longer contract drop system.

 

So instead, how about You offer 20.000 doubloons extra to the owner for getting the wood for You?

You give them 100,000 Doubloons, they keep 25k, extract 5000 Live Oak and Ship it to You.

You saved time, You save doubloons from the process of getting the port, everyone is happy.

 

That's the incentive for RvR?

[z4ys]

Oh no 1st rates are now most powerfull ships and are now expensive ....

Oh no no more alts spaming contracts for rare woods

 

I guess AI is still sailing rare woods around (confirmed look at my next post)? No more port clicker heroes

Edited March 2, 2019 by z4ys

[z4ys]

Rare woods are still delievered by AI. I see no reason to complain. Even 1 man clans can get rare woods just by sailing and attacking in OW.

[z4ys]

1 minute ago, Intrepido said:

That depends on luck.

We can not be all day attacking npc traders just to see if they have rare woods. Most people dont have the time for that.

 

RvR is already enough time demanding, do you know?

 

 

actual its easy to pick the ships 😉 old rarewood locations + incoming trade ships

[Archaos]

The thing is that Doubloons are easier to obtain now so the price should drop for them. With virtually risk free pax and letter missions anyone can make 10's of thousands of Doubloons in a few hours of sailing. I currently have a trader lynx with 20 delivery missions with an average reward per mission somewhere in the region of 900 Doubloons, it will take me around 3 hours to do the deliveries and it should net me around 18k Doubloons. If you add in the couple of hours I spent picking up these missions and some of the smaller missions I did while going to various ports to pick up the 20 missions, I reckon I will have around 20k Doubloons for 5 hours work, and that is on a single alt sailing mostly afk while I play on my main.

The ease of getting Doubloons coupled with the change in the price of Admiralty Ship Notes to combat medals will mean that there will be surplus Doubloons on the market. There is now little point in doing PZ mission to get Doubloons as there is far less risk and work getting them from economy missions.

[Hethwill]

16 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

If you prove me that 75% of the traders going to those ports are carrying rare woods then I will agree with you.

 

They don't, not 75% overall. I'd say 25% traders carry usable resources ( iron, hemp, woods of all kinds, coal, etc ), the majority is trade goods with a okay proportion of others carrying the trasure in doubloons.

But the traders that are around areas of those woods are a good bet. But not only teak and heavy oaks are to be considered. Plenty (by raiding standards ) of sabicu, mahogany, caguairan along with teak and live oak, if hunted in the correct areas will be on the AI traders.

For example, at the present moment if you hang around Santa Rosa area you will hit quite a few traders with wood shipments ( along with others with trade goods and good amount of doubloons ).

Must go to the regions that have the ports with those woods and then have to bring the captured trader back. There's a risk involved as enemy nations players will also be in the areas.

[z4ys]

6 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

F.uck rvr and the other related activities will drop too. I believe the drop on population after patch 27 proved enough my point. 

 

RvR is dead because everyone has alts everywhere no need to conquer.Only reason to RvR is because "I can"

[Sella]

9 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

As you can understand, that is too time consuming and potentially frustrating (because of luck) for a playerbase which doesnt think of a game as a second job.

It may be a good way of playing for some roleplaying rovers of the sea though.

 

@admin should not forget that his target should be the average player with 2-3 hours every day. And the fact that rvr fuels pvp.

F.uck rvr and the other related activities will drop too. I believe the drop on population after patch 27 proved enough my point. 

Lets not repeat past mistakes, again.

 

I don't see how it is a problem that the super weapons of the game are harder to make. Plus the goal of the casual player probably wouldn't and shouldn't be the endgame RvR.

[Sella]

3 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Read better next time.

I said average playerbase. RvR should not only catter those players with sessions of 6-8 hours every day.

 

 

 

Average playerbase =/= casual player but thats just semantics and I wont bother with that.

It doesn't. You can RvR in shallows and in other ships other than SoL that are easier to access by a player that doesn't invest a third of his day.

[Sella]

Just now, Intrepido said:

Look you seem not to have much idea about RvR so please dont bother.

I have RvRered quite a bit actually. But i can see that you are out of arguments

[Socialism]

25 minutes ago, z4ys said:

RvR is dead because everyone has alts everywhere no need to conquer.Only reason to RvR is because "I can"

RVR is dead because the time commitment isn’t worth the payout.  Has been for a while now.  No one wants to grind bots and it’s too easy to get jumped in missions now.    

During the fine woods heyday one nation owned both live oak ports for a couple of months....yet the server still managed to have multiple 25 man port battles daily.

Resource exclusivity has never and will never encourage RVR.  People either use alts or go F off to a less time intensive game.  

[z4ys]

1 minute ago, Socialism said:

RVR is dead because the time commitment isn’t worth the payout.

Yes because alts are less time needed

[Vernon Merrill]

There’s a reason why the heroes with the most alts are the ones who are complaining most vociferously...   

They actually have to play the same game now as the average joe.  If you want to get the good stuff now, you actually have to work at it.  

Now if they would just Lowe the max stack amounts so people couldn’t hoarde so much.....

[admin]

13 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Hahahaha

Only the owner of the mission receive the rewards. It doesnt matter if everyone has the exact same mission.

It seems you dont know what you are talking about, my dear.

 

 

owner shares them with those who helped him to do a group mission. If your friends do not share those rewards with you - find new ones

[admin]

1 hour ago, z4ys said:

Rare woods are still delievered by AI. I see no reason to complain. Even 1 man clans can get rare woods just by sailing and attacking in OW.

This will be reduced. AI wont carry RVR resources soon. 

[MassimoSud]

3 minutes ago, admin said:

This will be reduced. AI wont carry RVR resources soon. 

I m not sure this will be a good idea, perhaps it will be better to lower the drop, but give solo pve players some chance to have rare materials too.

Just my opinion (and i m playing in a clan)