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Patch 30: General feedback

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46 minutes ago, Captain Reverse said:

 

This does not negate what I wrote above.

and about live in NA, i play 4 hours+- every day, except Sunday. for some reason I am sure that most of those present here devote the same amount of time to computer \ games.

so stop cry, If the game is very difficult for you, I think you should think about Sims 3

Somewhat harsh.  I respect your talent Reverse but the game is designed for players like you.  However, one might ask as to the dwindling numbers?  The fighting game vs the crafting/trading game and the latter has suffered with the attempts to forage you PVP opponents.  I have 1964 hours in this game and play it quit differently.  However, I do see that the trend to make the game more to the PVP players ease of playing than the depth needed for a decent trading/crafting game with risk of being sunk by a skilled naval tactician as yourself.  

Currently, I am spending my time since the wipe to rebuild my feeling of security on the trading side.  Enough Reals, Doubloons to sustain any shipbuild that I consistently lose to you and those at your skill levels.  Even with DLC ships i must sustain the loss of cannon and upgrades. So since the wipe I have had little PVP time to play.

The Player concentrators like Capitals and only best price in them has proven ineffective to your game play type and produced a harmful environment for new players being attacked even before they can start.  The game was apparently seeming to work before the last wipe that put combat medal in the game in an attempt to push more PVP opponents for you in the Patrol Zones.  This removed my ability to build a storage of Doubloons to buy upgrades so that I could dare to risk combat with those of your skill level with an albeit false sense of security in an upgraded vessel to even the playability of the game.

 With all the special woods and invitations to Port Battles now held by the Royal Grants to the Nobility Clans i would say that roughly 45 percent of the gameplay has now been removed from players like myself.  What we peasant players have left is the ability to spend our game hours trading for Reals for reduced profits and resources to possibly craft inferior ships for your sinking pleasure.  

Now I ask if what you want in this game is an overwhelming advantage in ship structure and build against any opponent then the game is headed that direction.  Unfortunately, I believe that type of game even with the hype of a release launch will not change the numbers that you find in game.  

Naval Combat is about denial of sea commerce but this game has moved to a fictitious small room instance fighting game.  Ok, it is because of frame rates and detail needed in the combat scenarios.  It is not about how hard it is to play but it is about how hard it is to succeed even enough to a middle class player level.  It is about how rich the game is beyond the battle instances in which you excel.

Sim3 achieved this balance between hard and hours to play.  It is apparently very popular, though I never played it. It has many more players than this game.   Numbers would enrich your gameplay too here.

Edited by angriff
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15 minutes ago, van Veen said:

It's not about "difficult", it is time demanding

To save time, capture ports only from Friday to Sunday. :D

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I think the whole game is going in the right direction now. Economie war (rare woods) for clans and nations and people that like RvR with more micro management for clans that own towns. PvP medals that make it possible to live better from PvP again by selling them. Keeping the ship diversity high by making the best ships rare with the intelligent use of permits. I like that. 

It is considered to remove the reinforcement zones (maybe by keeping the capital zones). That is also a very good move but I would recommend to combine it with the remove of the patrol zones (patrol zones would not be necessary any more) and give players only the duel zone/area. So all mechanics that hurt OW PvP and RvR would be removed.

I am looking forward to the release.

Edited by Sir Loorkon
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None of these special currencies are required if you just rewarded the action normally. CM are the only thing that really needs to exist aside reals. PVP pays out both, RVR pays out a larger amount. The extra currency for rvr seems redundant, you're trading them out anyway, seems like division for the sake of division, really no other game does this (that I know of) for their trading/combat/crafting. It's all one and its scaled high and low depending on the action, with maybe one special currency for very specific action. Very strange I will say that we have some 4 or 5 different currencies in game. I couldnt imagine a game like eve or similar sanbox title splitting their main currency into 4ths for any reason.

Edited by Slim McSauce
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51 minutes ago, van Veen said:

It's not about "difficult", it is time demanding.  

Permits raised the barrier to access a lot of ships. This barrier is not difficult to tackle, but requires a lot of time in multiple activities. Most players, not including @Captain Reverse;), do not have this time. Guess what will be the consequences. You see, if this game remains as time demanding as it is right now, you will rather sooner than later end up without anyone to fight.

we play different games. And hardly come to something. In my world, playing 1-2 hour a day - you can have everything in this game.

 

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1 hour ago, van Veen said:

Permit for a 1st rate costs 10 victory marks. You are right, this is not hard. It is impossible for majority players in one lifetime. 

Before the recent econ stuff wipe I had over 200 VM's that I pretty much couldn't give away cause most folks in my nation had them too (not to that level).  Unless you are in a nation that doesn't do well in RvR than you might have a problem, but there is always a way to get things. Put contracts up in freetowns or your capital for the permits you want or ask of some one is willing to trade.  Though don't expect to be getting the ships straight off cause many clans will be worried about getting there own guys into those ships first, but after a while solos should be able to too.  Fastest way for a solo/casual to get help is to try to hang out with clans and help them even if it's OW screening. I use to give out ships to new players and casuals just for showing up for fights. 

If server pop never goes up and we all end up in a stale map of only a few strong clans owning ports than the game is broken and devs will need to work on that or just go play on PvE or as most drop the game.  

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After reading the forums, Steam reviews and discord convos I am moving on from NA I’ve had my fill of this nonsense.  Good luck @admin I have spent too many hours worrying about things that do not matter in life.  You may have the game you want, but your paying customers do not.  And we are not testers we are customers.  Somehow weve all forgotten we parted with $40 plus $15-20 for DLCs.  Good bye and so long.   I am moving onto other hobbies that will be more rewarding for me and less disappointment.   I’m sorry you’ve become so blinded by your own ego and hubris I cannot support it anymore.   Consider this an official review of your conduct and performance.  With great contempt and disgust.  

JDAM

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2 hours ago, Sir Loorkon said:

I think the whole game is going in the right direction now. Economie war (rare woods) for clans and nations and people that like RvR with more micro management for clans that own towns. PvP medals that make it possible to live better from PvP again by selling them. Keeping the ship diversity high by making the best ships rare with the intelligent use of permits. I like that. 

It is considered to remove the reinforcement zones (maybe by keeping the capital zones). That is also a very good move but I would recommend to combine it with the remove of the patrol zones (patrol zones would not be necessary any more) and give players only the duel zone/area. So all mechanics that hurt OW PvP and RvR would be removed.

I am looking forward to the release.

I have come to enjoy your insight to the game and how to make it better, I though have a few ? to what you write right now.

Remove the Rz to get more OW, Sound right, but why the keep the Cz, it is a war server. Why protect PvE?

Remove the Grp Pz make sence to get more OW PvP. But why keep the duel? Why do you want to protect that on a war server, should it not be at the same risk as all other OW activities?

As you have started by writing this is a war server, but why should PvP and RvR needed some protection. Should it not be up to each person how to get where they want?

If we should have a Real war server I can’t see how we keep timers on ports, how we allow tow of ships, neither can I understand how we ignore the logistic of war. All repairs must be player crafted. No ship beside the BC can be made without crafting. We should not be allowed to teleport to anything than a national port. 

Oh forgot. Should not all Trade, upgrades and woods be player made? And do think we need to remove the magic chests too. See that would be a war game and not a PvP game.

Edited by Routan

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I see you are online this fine evning, so a short question @admin.

Lots of players worry abouth this fine change in the game. Is there a plan to make a”casual” area in the shallow for the less hardcore players? I think something like this.

- 5 ports that only takes one hostillitty mission to flip.

- Port with no value in regard to woods/upgrades. Gives no VM.

- 8-10 man PB.

So ports where ppl can get a tast of RvR. Ore will we stay on they way to a real war server? I see benefits in both ways, but do like a real war server. Hope you make the last effort to get over the finish line.

 

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Put Santissima permit on Admiralty (PvE) plz i don't care about being hardcore coz i'm not.

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3 hours ago, Teutonic said:

bye!

Perfect example of onesideness of the game around the small room instance fights and Clan Nobilities killing off the peasant players.

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4 hours ago, Captain Reverse said:

we play different games. And hardly come to something. In my world, playing 1-2 hour a day - you can have everything in this game.

 

Yes it is designed for the small room sail ship gun jockey.  You dont even need other players do you?

Edited by angriff

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18 minutes ago, angriff said:

Perfect example of onesideness of the game around the small room instance fights and Clan Nobilities killing off the peasant players.

JDAM has a clan of 20 guys and regularly joined those groups you seem to dislike. they also regularly beat up on "noobs" and the "little guy." 

I don't like small room instance fights and I regularly have proposed suggestions to allow small clans and solo players to gain access to parts of the game that people view as "restricted to the few." 

please don't misinterpret my comments - If someone wants to come here and yell and scream and complain without so much as providing well written criticism/feedback, I don't have time to listen. It is important to realize that the Devs need level-headed people to inform them of feedback of what people think is good or not good. If the devs want to make a game that you or I don't like, I'll give criticism, but at the end of the day if I don't like the game, then I won't play it.

Edited by Teutonic
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7 hours ago, JDAM said:

After reading the forums, Steam reviews and discord convos I am moving on from NA I’ve had my fill of this nonsense.  Good luck @admin I have spent too many hours worrying about things that do not matter in life.  You may have the game you want, but your paying customers do not.  And we are not testers we are customers.  Somehow weve all forgotten we parted with $40 plus $15-20 for DLCs.  Good bye and so long.   I am moving onto other hobbies that will be more rewarding for me and less disappointment.   I’m sorry you’ve become so blinded by your own ego and hubris I cannot support it anymore.   Consider this an official review of your conduct and performance.  With great contempt and disgust.  

JDAM

I do not know how many hours you have played the game, but it always gets me when I see people mention how much the game cost as if it gives them unending rights. What people have spent on this game is not even an average night out on the town, yet people have had thousands of hours play time. Personally if the game closed its servers tomorrow I would be disappointed but I could never say I did not get my moneys worth out of it.

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5 hours ago, Archaos said:

I do not know how many hours you have played the game, but it always gets me when I see people mention how much the game cost as if it gives them unending rights. What people have spent on this game is not even an average night out on the town, yet people have had thousands of hours play time. Personally if the game closed its servers tomorrow I would be disappointed but I could never say I did not get my moneys worth out of it.

I always value a game in this means.  every hour of game play for me is worth 1 dollar. If you can get 60 hours out of a 40 dollar game than you have made your money back.  I have over 9K hours in this game. I for sure made my money back even with multi alts and DLC's.  What always gets me is I was paying 40-60 dollars for games 20-25 years ago.  With inflation honestly many of these games should be 100 or more, but they aren't.  If you can get 40+ hours out of a game you pretty much got your moneys worth.  We all know it takes a several hundred hours to even get into the game and it's mechanics.

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19 hours ago, Captain Reverse said:

we play different games. And hardly come to something. In my world, playing 1-2 hour a day - you can have everything in this game.

 

It's nice to hear that you are so organized/skilled/smart/efficient that you can succed in the game playing two hours a day, but - unfortunately - it's not a relevant point when: 

- the game is underpopulated (so it should attract and keep in game also DIFFERENT kind of players than the ones that like/can play efficiently the game as it is right now)

- it seems that a plurality of players still playing the game find the game too time demandind

Moreover, I would add that the problem of time is not just a matter of hours but also of "intensity". Let's take some examples: in Warframe, you can make a sortie that in about an hour gives you a lot of action. In WOW you can make a dungeon with a mythic key 10 that in half an hour will give you contiuous, frenetic (and also quiite difficult) action; in EVE online you can do in half a hour a LVL 4 missions (let's say angel extravaganza) that will have you constantly on fight (and with the risk of being killed by NPC if you commit mistakes in triggering the wrong group). How much action are you able to meet in a half an hour session of Naval action?

 

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You cant even really get a battle in an hour, a not trash one that is, unless you go to pz or something which I mean is like a lobby game on the scale of OW. If you look at the map 100% of the time you'll find almost no info as to where the real hotspots are.

Edited by Slim McSauce

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20 hours ago, Sir Loorkon said:

I think the whole game is going in the right direction now. Economie war (rare woods) for clans and nations and people that like RvR with more micro management for clans that own towns. PvP medals that make it possible to live better from PvP again by selling them. Keeping the ship diversity high by making the best ships rare with the intelligent use of permits. I like that. 

It is considered to remove the reinforcement zones (maybe by keeping the capital zones). That is also a very good move but I would recommend to combine it with the remove of the patrol zones (patrol zones would not be necessary any more) and give players only the duel zone/area. So all mechanics that hurt OW PvP and RvR would be removed.

I am looking forward to the release.

'intelligent use of permits' is not the words I'd use to describe it.

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11 minutes ago, victor said:

It's nice to hear that you are so organized/skilled/smart/efficient that you can succed in the game playing two hours a day, but - unfortunately - it's not a relevant point when: 

- the game is underpopulated (so it should attract and keep in game also DIFFERENT kind of players than the ones that like/can play efficiently the game as it is right now)

- it seems that a plurality of players still playing the game find the game too time demandind

Moreover, I would add that the problem of time is not just a matter of hours but also of "intensity". Let's take some examples: in Warframe, you can make a sortie that in about an hour gives you a lot of action. In WOW you can make a dungeon with a mythic key 10 that in half an hour will give you contiuous, frenetic (and also quiite difficult) action; in EVE online you can do in half a hour a LVL 4 missions (let's say angel extravaganza) that will have you constantly on fight (and with the risk of being killed by NPC if you commit mistakes in triggering the wrong group). How much action are you able to meet in a half an hour session of Naval action?

 

1) u can leave city and and attack the first comer NPC Fleet. 2 hour and u can kill maybe 3-4-5-6 NPC fleet?

2) U can go to patrol area. 2 hour and u have 70k damage=10 Combat medal. I give u 100% 

3) If u love trading, u can go trade. 2 hour - 2kk reals profit +- 

4) U need ships and craft? 2 hour and u can collect all resurse from nears city

5) Epic Events? 2 hours - this is 1-2 epic events with good chest

6) Maybe u wont RVR for VM? ok, u need 2 day, 2 hours each. DAY 1 - u come flip city. DAY 2 - u come try capture city

 

YES, THIS IS VERY EASY GAME with many content for 2x hour per day.

 

just need to turn on the fantasy :)

Edited by Captain Reverse

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13 minutes ago, Captain Reverse said:

just need to turn on the fantasy :)

Sorry mate, but you made me laugh big time.

If you have to use the fantasy to turn naval action in a very easy and intense game, it means that - in reality - it is not.

Ps: BTW I asked you how much action you will meet in half an hour of NA play, not in two hours. Anyway no prob, tot capita tot sententiae

Edited by victor

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20 hours ago, Sir Loorkon said:

 Keeping the ship diversity high by making the best ships rare with the intelligent use of permits. I like that. 

I'd rather say that any decent ship is now behind the permit wall, even the Surprise .... I mean ... do you really think that the Surprise shall be kept a "rare" ship?

Another example: the indefatigable, has always been - since it's introduction in the game - the most used ships in PVE and has been also put behind a PVP wall ... is this it an "intelligent" use of the permits?

At the end of the story - now - only the Belle poule, the Frigate, the Pirate Frigate and the Agamemnon are now "free" from the PVP wall. Do you actually think that all the other ships shall be deemed as "rare" or reserved to PVP players?

I think the devs suppose so, since their mindset is PVP players only on war server, and carebears only on PVE. But this is a big mistake that will cut off the game a lot of potential players that like both PVE and PVP in the same game with the same character.

Edited by victor
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17 minutes ago, victor said:

I'd rather say that any decent ship is now behind the permit wall, even the Surprise .... I mean ... do you really think that the Surprise shall be kept a "rare" ship?

The indefatigable, has always been - since it's introduction in the game - the most used ships in PVE and has been also put behind a PVP wall ... is this it an "intelligent" use of the permits?

At the end of the story - now - only the belle poule, the frigate, the pirate frigate and the agamemnon are now "free" from the PVP wall. Do you actually think that all the other ships shall be deemed as "rare" or reserved to PVP players?

I think the devs suppose so, since their mindset is PVP players only on war server, and carebears only on PVE. But this is a big mistake that will cut off the game a lot of potential players that like both PVE and PVP in the same game with the same character.

Who did  actually  sail a surprise before? It got some value in the shallow now, but you can easy get it. Think devs have made a balance system with the patrolzone to help players. You can just cap some Ai’s teleport it to shroud. Do a couple of fights in Nassau and deadman. Cost you nothing and then you  have 10 cm atleast. Make an Agga go la Mona and Nippes. Thats 10 cm easy. So 20 ina week. For that you can buy 5 surprice permits. You can actually buy a l’ocean permit a week.

Yes the Indifatigable is behind a Wall now, but the Agga is not, it is a fine ship. The Essex is neither. Think it was @Palatinose that like to sail that in PvP, so he can proberbly tell more about it.

Soon there also will be a market for rare Woods, just wait and see. So it will be Allright.

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29 minutes ago, Routan said:

Who did  actually  sail a surprise before?

A lot of players (including the most feared PVP pro players) used surprise, mostly people looking for an effective PVP all around cheap ship. Essex is not good for PVP since it lacks chasers.

Anyway, even if your statement was true, this very fact would have been a reason not to make surprise a "rare" ship.

PS: in general I do not feel as much need as you to wait an see. Maybe you wern't playing the game at those times, but this is not the first "austerity"/"pvp mark"/"pvp wall" patch that the devs decided to put in the game, so I have already seen what this kind of things are likely to cause in the game after a couple of months,

 

Edited by victor

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22 minutes ago, victor said:

A lot of players (including the most feared PVP pro players) used surprise, mostly people looking for an effective PVP all around cheap ship. Essex is not good for PVP since it lacks chasers.

Anyway, even if your statement was true, this very fact would have been a reason not to make surprise a "rare" ship.

PS: in general I do not feel as much need as you to wait an see. Maybe you wern't playing the game at those times, but this is not the first "austerity"/"pvp mark"/"pvp wall" patch that the devs decided to put in the game, so I have already seen what this kind of things are likely to cause in the game after a couple of months,

 

But it is not game Breaking what is happing now. Ppl have another choise of ship and also the posibility to get acces. Patrole zone made that possible. 

5 rate more ore less died when demasting got a thing. I use Surprice before that, but after demasting think most went bigger ships.

I played last time when we had PvP marks.  Made a bit in OW fighting and Pb’s. But also in patrolezone. I made between 100-200 a week, depending on luck and game time, and ofc what I ells did. My guess with the new system I proberbly will make somewhere between 10-30 cm a week.

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