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Patch 30: General feedback

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Routan said:

How do we know a hardcore game dosent work? How do we know a casual is better?

I do not think that hardcore is better or worse than casual, I think a good game should allow players to engage in both things with the same character, as it happens in EVE online in example (which, BTW, was developed also by a small indie team)

Edited by victor

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2 hours ago, Routan said:

I have not played Eve, so can’t really talk abouth how it works.  Can you not in NA do it all on the same char?

Can you in eve get everything if you only do the casual way?

You can, but in for most players, no. But that does not matter, there's plenty of content for both, and the pvp is played on forums, in space, and on the market. It is a great game, and there is a free trial, I recommend you try it out. In eve money and contacts is everything, and obscene amounts of cash can be made on the market, safe in hi-sec.

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3 minutes ago, admin said:

Hello what are you talking about.

https://imgur.com/a/O9QsaZ5

Eve is from 2003 and you're posting a pic about revenue in 2016 - 13 years post their, by far, greatest success was introduced to the gaming community - they can afford 330 employees because EVE became so succesfull..

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30 minutes ago, Israel Hands said:

Eve is from 2003 and you're posting a pic about revenue in 2016 - 13 years post their, by far, greatest success was introduced to the gaming community - they can afford 330 employees because EVE became so succesfull..

It was smaller but still had 50 people all the time mate - they were funded well by VCs too. check their reports
We are bootstrapped and never had more than 2 programmers. Captains should reduce any expectations and only expect things indicated on the steam greenlight page.

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2 minutes ago, admin said:

Captains should reduce any expectations and only expect things indicated on the steam greenlight page.

so are we all supposed to go home and forget NA testing and development, because all goals on Steam Greenlight page have been achieved a long time ago? There is nothing more to expect according to what you're saying. 

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1 minute ago, admin said:

It was smaller but still had 50 people all the time mate - they were funded well by VCs too. check their reports
We are bootstrapped and never had more than 2 programmers. Captains should reduce any expectations and only expect things indicated on the steam greenlight page.

We haven't actually been discussing implementation of anything new, just the current patch and the general direction you've taken the game. We've learned the banned way to expect nothing so as not to be disappointed - that doesn't change the fact tho that I would like a skill based game where everyone, the casual as well as the hardcore gamer can have fun. With the current direction I'm guessing neither will have much fun in the long run.. Hardcore players still need someone to compete with and if they leave, then the hardcores leave. If the casuals has the same opportunities as the hardcores then the numbers will rise and everyone will get more content.. Personally I don't believe the missions will create more content - that's just different ways to do the same grind. The content comes from the players and the less players there are, the less content we see.

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12 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

so are we all supposed to go home and forget NA testing and development, because all goals on Steam Greenlight page have been achieved a long time ago? There is nothing more to expect according to what you're saying. 

The current game exceeds all expectations laid during the steam greenlight and it was only possible due to hard work and tremendous support by this community. Comparisons with large teams will not move things faster. We have a great game providing hours of entertainment already and we can only make it better, step by step. But these steps wont ever compare to 300 people teams. 

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Why is everyone talking about eve online?? This is naval action!

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, admin said:

The current game exceeds all expectations laid during the steam greenlight and it was only possible due to hard work and tremendous support by this community. Comparisons with large teams will not move things faster. We have a great game providing hours of entertainment already and we can only make it better, step by step. But these steps wont ever compare to 300 people teams. 

You have the one magic ingredient EvE doesn't, superb player vs player combat. Do your best to make that accesible to as many of your players as possible. And get inspiration from EvE on the rest

Hi-Sec - Capital zones, an area where players can relax, play the game, learn the game, and make a decent living, has a thriving economy due to the excellent market system, modelled after a stock exchange, you can alter buy and sell orders at will for a very small fee, and almost everything you'll ever need is player crafted (tech 2 modules).
There are plenty of factions to work for, and they each have different rewards. Special ships and modules.


Lo-Sec - FFA zone, no conquest, higher PVE rewards, better missions, allowing you to get those special ships and modules alot faster.

No-Sec - The wild west, full conquest with station ownership and docking control, owner decides who can dock, the best ncp spawns, the best loot, the best raw materials.

No-Sec NPC controlled space - far from the safety of Hi and lo sec, the most dangerous space in eve, everyone has station access, different factions with high paying missions, different rewards, the pinnacle of carebearing if you got the team to pull it off.

To me, naval action currently has HI-sec (capital zones) and NO-sec NPC controlled space (players cap ports on behalf of an npc organization, they reap some benefits for doing so, but everyone can more or less use the port. A model that fits the period and game well.

The market is a travesty, high fees barring market participation, low number (ten) of unalterable contracts non-stacking contracts (you cant sell and buy a commodity in the same port) compared to EvEs hundreds, fully alterable, low cost and fully stacking buy and sell orders.

A simple change (I hope) would be to upscale the number of contracts, reduce the fees on placing them (tax the sales after the fact, not before), and make them stackable.
Make all resources needed to craft ships, guns and consumables available in the capital cities. Stop seeding player crafted goods. Make the labour cost fluid, the more labour pulled from a port (total from playerbase) the more expensive it gets, remove all ship notes, make all 3rd rates ++ and the bonus ships we've seen in test phase require licenses. If the port is player owned, let the controlling clan decide if it is friendlist only, faction or ffa for extracting resources, let them tax the labour cost in addition to the market. Make the cost of the port a fixed cost + a percentage of all taxes raised and possibly even some raw materials/crafted items.

Make the difference between base woods (oak and fir) and the noble woods less. Make players choose between thickness, armor and crew protection.  Example: Harder woods = more splinters when penned. Lighter woods (faster) burn easier etc.

Make the gap between elite modules and base and easily craftable modules less, as an example pirate rig should just require a blueprint (which you learn and get to keep) from the pirate faction mission chests, and some base wood and hemp, the elite rig requires the special canvas and a more expensive blueprint, also only gotten from the pirate faction (hi-tier mission running chests).

Since the timescale on the OW-map and sea-battles are vastly different, have short join timers on battles in the OW (ignoring BR). Make the reinforcement and capital zones work like they did before the 20 min-patch. Have the capturable ports in immediate vicinity of a capital extend the RF. Don't allow veteran players to seal-club the new guys or risk averse players. But if they want to fight 12+ 1st rate NPC fleets they'll have to venture out.
If done correctly, there would be no need for a PvE server. 

I believe changes like that are what is required, and I believe at least some of them do not require a 50-man team. 

Edited by StuntPotato
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14 minutes ago, StuntPotato said:

You have the one magic ingredient EvE doesn't, superb player vs player combat. Do your best to make that accesible to as many of your players as possible. And get inspiration from EvE on the rest

Hi-Sec - Capital zones, an area where players can relax, play the game, learn the game, and make a decent living, has a thriving economy due to the excellent market system, modelled after a stock exchange, you can alter buy and sell orders at will for a very small fee, and almost everything you'll ever need is player crafted (tech 2 modules).
There are plenty of factions to work for, and they each have different rewards. Special ships and modules.


Lo-Sec - FFA zone, no conquest, higher PVE rewards, better missions, allowing you to get those special ships and modules alot faster.

No-Sec - The wild west, full conquest with station ownership and docking control, owner decides who can dock, the best ncp spawns, the best loot, the best raw materials.

No-Sec NPC controlled space - far from the safety of Hi and lo sec, the most dangerous space in eve, everyone has station access, different factions with high paying missions, different rewards, the pinnacle of carebearing if you got the team to pull it off.

To me, naval action currently has HI-sec (capital zones) and NO-sec NPC controlled space (players cap ports on behalf of an npc organization, they reap some benefits for doing so, but everyone can more or less use the port. A model that fits the period and game well.

The market is a travesty, high fees barring market participation, low number (ten) of unalterable contracts non-stacking contracts (you cant sell and buy a commodity in the same port) compared to EvEs hundreds, fully alterable, low cost and fully stacking buy and sell orders.

A simple change (I hope) would be to upscale the number of contracts, reduce the fees on placing them (tax the sales after the fact, not before), and make them stackable.
Make all resources needed to craft ships, guns and consumables available in the capital cities. Stop seeding player crafted goods. Make the labour cost fluid, the more labour pulled from a port (total from playerbase) the more expensive it gets, remove all ship notes, make all 3rd rates ++ and the bonus ships we've seen in test phase require licenses. If the port is player owned, let the controlling clan decide if it is friendlist only, faction or ffa for extracting resources, let them tax the labour cost in addition to the market. Make the cost of the port a fixed cost + a percentage of all taxes raised and possibly even some raw materials/crafted items.

Make the difference between base woods (oak and fir) and the noble woods less. Make players choose between thickness, armor and crew protection.  Example: Harder woods = more splinters when penned. Lighter woods (faster) burn easier etc.

Make the gap between elite modules and base and easily craftable modules less, as an example pirate rig should just require a blueprint (which you learn and get to keep) from the pirate faction mission chests, and some base wood and hemp, the elite rig requires the special canvas and a more expensive blueprint, also only gotten from the pirate faction (hi-tier mission running chests).

Since the timescale on the OW-map and sea-battles are vastly different, have short join timers on battles in the OW (ignoring BR). Make the reinforcement and capital zones work like they did before the 20 min-patch. Have the capturable ports in immediate vicinity of a capital extend the RF. Don't allow veteran players to seal-club the new guys or risk averse players. But if they want to fight 12+ 1st rate NPC fleets they'll have to venture out.
If done correctly, there would be no need for a PvE server. 

I believe changes like that are what is required, and I believe at least some of them do not require a 50-man team. 

Couldn't have written it better myself. Agreed.

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2 hours ago, admin said:

The current game exceeds all expectations laid during the steam greenlight and it was only possible due to hard work and tremendous support by this community. Comparisons with large teams will not move things faster. We have a great game providing hours of entertainment already and we can only make it better, step by step. But these steps wont ever compare to 300 people teams. 

Yes... one step at a time... lets make sure everything is just right before release.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Routan said:

But did we not also have problems with Numbers before. As long I can remember back, Numbers have been an Issue. Just look at steam charts.

Numbers/ I always see players on when I play on PVP server. Please remember that many players will try a game for a short time that is not fully developed yet, then they quit until release of the full game has been implemented. 

Edited by LIONOFWALES

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9 hours ago, Routan said:

pretty sure they want the game to succed. But if we look at Numbers only in the test fase as a criteria. Should they not have stopped years ago, when there where full servers and a que to log in. That must be the game ppl want. Even if we make the game easier will it be what it was at that time. It is before I started to play.

Well... I know many players are anticipating a release soon... and a few big clans are waiting to rejoin once the game is finished, at least this is what I have heard. All the players did not quit, many of those not playing right now are just abiding time until the game is completed.

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9 hours ago, victor said:

Back in the days - before all this austerity/hardcore frenzy - we had some like 800 players EU prime time.

This is true to a point... we need to remember that many players left at the last merge and intend to rejoin us later when the game is finished, many people will try a game in development for a short time, then once the game is finished and full release occurs, many of those players come back to play again.

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On 3/15/2019 at 7:11 AM, angriff said:

This does not negate what I wrote above.

and about live in NA, i play 4 hours+- every day, except Sunday. for some reason I am sure that most of those present here devote the same amount of time to computer \ games.

so stop cry, If the game is very difficult for you, I think you should think about Sims 3

I only generally play for between 1/2 - 1 hour... you must have a lot of time on your hands indeed.... so jealous. :)

 

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On 3/15/2019 at 8:00 AM, Sir Texas Sir said:

Permit for a 1st rate costs 10 victory marks. You are right, this is not hard. It is impossible for majority players in one lifetime. 

Line ships were Navy run super giants... we should try to remember this... only the most powerful will likely be able to run them and replace them readily in the future. It took me around 6 months to collect all the resources and permit for a Victory. I am happy.... I worked really hard for that ship. Then I sailed it... it was too slow and couldn't turn... its really only much good for Port Battles anyway... so I sold it. I like my frigate a lot better, I can replace it easily, I can catch other players in it, and all in all I have more fun in my frigates than ever in a line ship, win or lose, this is the game for me.

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On 3/15/2019 at 2:58 AM, John Hill Regard said:

We have player's leaving the PVP server for the PVE server ....Why ??

Because the dev are wrong , they are killing the open world on the PVP server , they are dreaming (may be some hard core player are dreaming for them ) that all player are hard core PVP gamer looking all day long for PVP fight ..and that's wrong a lot of player's like PVP server because it's a little bit riskie and like also PVP battle's sometime's...

Why don't you do for Hard core pvp gamer a special server where they could fight each other (like in world of warship) bye this way they won't be frustrating asking for more and more PVP opportunity's on PVP server.....

Right now we have player's who can't acces ship (because of your stupid permit reserved to a minority...) so they sail in shittie boat when shark's player's are sailing best one....

No better way to disgust them ......

Please Forget all this difference betwen money make everything accessible to everybodies ...increase reward for PVP kill to make a difference if you want but don't make difference between an hard core trader or a hard core PVP'er on the server everything should be accessible to all.

If you want to attract and keep player's open world and what you can do should be attractive and offer pleasure for all...You decided to please only hard core RVR or gamer's or PVP gamer's and i really thing you are wrong.

I am not hard core and I love the PVP server. I only play for around 1/2- 1 hour a day mate... are players really this disalusioned about how this game was intended to be?

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8 hours ago, El Patron said:

Why is everyone talking about eve online?? This is naval action!

 

We ask ourselves the same all the time man.....

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Mr. Doran said:

 

We ask ourselves the same all the time man.....

So ... here is your answer: devs always talk about hardcore/sandbox/PVP referring to this game ... well, EVE online was born as a "small" MMO hardcore/sandbox game and - through the years - has developed into a "big" very succesful game, blending in one server PVP, RVR, missions, trade, craft, exploration and a lot of others things.

Since a lot of us (I mean players liking MMO of that kind) have been playing EVE (and some still play) and think that Naval Action could borrow from EVE a lot of good concepts and mechanics in order to grow into a successful game, we refer to EVE online features as a possible example about how NA could be a better game, while keeping its hardcore/sandbox/PVP flavour.

Edited by victor

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9 hours ago, El Patron said:

Why is everyone talking about eve online?? This is naval action!

Because some want a age of sail eve and not naval action.

Is really confusing for all the others that have no idea what they talking about.

( nostalgia factor is the most important - they want to feel the same as they did with that game in another game - and they cannot understand that will not happen. Given they refuse to accept that fact they keep ranting on and on and on... So, make peace with your past game experience and simply stick to what is and what will come and things become much better and simpler and save everyone a lot of posts )

 

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2 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Because some want a age of sail eve and not naval action.

Is really confusing for all the others that have no idea what they talking about.

 

NA is a work in progress, and each game developer looks at the features of precedent (succesful) similar games.

You should therefore not be cofused: you should just try to understend what they are talking about in order to see if it could be good for the development of the game.

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12 minutes ago, victor said:

NA is a work in progress, and each game developer looks at the features of precedent (succesful) similar games.

You should therefore not be cofused: you should just try to understend what they are talking about in order to see if it could be good for the development of the game.

I'm not confused. I know exactly what NA is at the present. And while I look to many games in the past that did have a strong impact on my hobby time, and not only computer stuff - actually most are not computer related, I also know for certain they had their time and they are not coming again.

What you love nowadays is the idea of the great experience you remember back in the past with whatever game. Happens to all of us and everyone has amazing stories about how fun this or that game was. That's what i was referring to. Hence we go through libraries and shelves of games to try to find that "wow!!" moments again while discovering new games all the same. ( that's how i discover new games ).

You talk about "how the game felt to you back then" :) 

Looking to the present game objectively leaves no leeway to romanticized nostalgia of "oh that was the perfect game".

Glad we can share our differences.

 

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9 minutes ago, Routan said:

Who knows where the game ends. But are pretty sure that the Caribbean will be a fighting place. But who knows they might make small nations dlc, that give acces to a small map with 5-10 ports, where ppl can do there PvE, so an intregated part to  the Caribbean.  Think we in time slowly will see more dlc expantions that will bring more debt to all players. But first we need to get NA the last step to release.

 

And I outlined some easy changes (contracts) that I believe will make the game vastly better on release and for a long time after.

Hauling grain from sweden to denmark is just printing money, it doesn't affect the game at all, there's no connection to the game world, just busywork. Sailing to La Mona with a cargo of rum and selling it there affects the world in a meaningfull way, and for me, that is important. Giving players the tools to play the game as they want is important, hamstringing industry and trade minded people with only ten contracts makes zero sense to me, giving industrious players competition on goods from the AI makes zero sense to me. We should want more meaningfull stuff and less busywork.

And forcing players to participate in pvp won't cure them of carebearitis, it will drive them off. So a safe are must be established. The fact that the hungry pvp wolves are angry because they can't get to the fat sheep doesn't bother me one bit, and it shouldn't bother the devs. PvP needs to be consentual, and the line of consent must be firmly drawn. It should be possible for a player to never leave the capital zone and still play the game in a meaningfull way. But the rewards for leaving should be enticing, something that will eventually draw them out into the open world. This is also an easy fix to implement. Btw, some will never leave the safe area, and that is fine. They will enjoy the fun npc combat, building and trading in the ports of the capital zone.

Remove ship notes, they diminish the value of noble woods.

The devs are going to do what they do. But I would like to see what their vision of the game is. 

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53 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

I'm not confused. I know exactly what NA is at the present. And while I look to many games in the past that did have a strong impact on my hobby time, and not only computer stuff - actually most are not computer related, I also know for certain they had their time and they are not coming again.

What you love nowadays is the idea of the great experience you remember back in the past with whatever game. Happens to all of us and everyone has amazing stories about how fun this or that game was. That's what i was referring to. Hence we go through libraries and shelves of games to try to find that "wow!!" moments again while discovering new games all the same. ( that's how i discover new games ).

You talk about "how the game felt to you back then" :) 

Looking to the present game objectively leaves no leeway to romanticized nostalgia of "oh that was the perfect game".

Glad we can share our differences.

 

Diminishing feedback, given free of charge and with the best intention as rosy eyed nostalgia is rude, offensive and non-constructive. If you don't like it, say what you don't like, why you don't like it and if possible offer a different vision.

 

And the biggest MMO, (WoW) hit off all time didn't introduce a single original feature on relase, it just offered polish and accesibility. Naval action has it's unique feature, excellent combat, responsive controls and enough depth so that one can grow as a player. Take a que from other games on the rest. Especially since it's a two-man team doing the work. EvE is known for excellent industry, economy and player trade, not seriously looking at their work is hubris.

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