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Patch 30: General feedback

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Posted (edited)

None of these special currencies are required if you just rewarded the action normally. CM are the only thing that really needs to exist aside reals. PVP pays out both, RVR pays out a larger amount. The extra currency for rvr seems redundant, you're trading them out anyway, seems like division for the sake of division, really no other game does this (that I know of) for their trading/combat/crafting. It's all one and its scaled high and low depending on the action, with maybe one special currency for very specific action. Very strange I will say that we have some 4 or 5 different currencies in game. I couldnt imagine a game like eve or similar sanbox title splitting their main currency into 4ths for any reason.

Edited by Slim McSauce
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51 minutes ago, van Veen said:

It's not about "difficult", it is time demanding.  

Permits raised the barrier to access a lot of ships. This barrier is not difficult to tackle, but requires a lot of time in multiple activities. Most players, not including @Captain Reverse;), do not have this time. Guess what will be the consequences. You see, if this game remains as time demanding as it is right now, you will rather sooner than later end up without anyone to fight.

we play different games. And hardly come to something. In my world, playing 1-2 hour a day - you can have everything in this game.

 

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1 hour ago, van Veen said:

Permit for a 1st rate costs 10 victory marks. You are right, this is not hard. It is impossible for majority players in one lifetime. 

Before the recent econ stuff wipe I had over 200 VM's that I pretty much couldn't give away cause most folks in my nation had them too (not to that level).  Unless you are in a nation that doesn't do well in RvR than you might have a problem, but there is always a way to get things. Put contracts up in freetowns or your capital for the permits you want or ask of some one is willing to trade.  Though don't expect to be getting the ships straight off cause many clans will be worried about getting there own guys into those ships first, but after a while solos should be able to too.  Fastest way for a solo/casual to get help is to try to hang out with clans and help them even if it's OW screening. I use to give out ships to new players and casuals just for showing up for fights. 

If server pop never goes up and we all end up in a stale map of only a few strong clans owning ports than the game is broken and devs will need to work on that or just go play on PvE or as most drop the game.  

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After reading the forums, Steam reviews and discord convos I am moving on from NA I’ve had my fill of this nonsense.  Good luck @admin I have spent too many hours worrying about things that do not matter in life.  You may have the game you want, but your paying customers do not.  And we are not testers we are customers.  Somehow weve all forgotten we parted with $40 plus $15-20 for DLCs.  Good bye and so long.   I am moving onto other hobbies that will be more rewarding for me and less disappointment.   I’m sorry you’ve become so blinded by your own ego and hubris I cannot support it anymore.   Consider this an official review of your conduct and performance.  With great contempt and disgust.  

JDAM

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Put Santissima permit on Admiralty (PvE) plz i don't care about being hardcore coz i'm not.

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3 hours ago, Teutonic said:

bye!

Perfect example of onesideness of the game around the small room instance fights and Clan Nobilities killing off the peasant players.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Captain Reverse said:

we play different games. And hardly come to something. In my world, playing 1-2 hour a day - you can have everything in this game.

 

Yes it is designed for the small room sail ship gun jockey.  You dont even need other players do you?

Edited by angriff

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, angriff said:

Perfect example of onesideness of the game around the small room instance fights and Clan Nobilities killing off the peasant players.

JDAM has a clan of 20 guys and regularly joined those groups you seem to dislike. they also regularly beat up on "noobs" and the "little guy." 

I don't like small room instance fights and I regularly have proposed suggestions to allow small clans and solo players to gain access to parts of the game that people view as "restricted to the few." 

please don't misinterpret my comments - If someone wants to come here and yell and scream and complain without so much as providing well written criticism/feedback, I don't have time to listen. It is important to realize that the Devs need level-headed people to inform them of feedback of what people think is good or not good. If the devs want to make a game that you or I don't like, I'll give criticism, but at the end of the day if I don't like the game, then I won't play it.

Edited by Teutonic
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7 hours ago, JDAM said:

After reading the forums, Steam reviews and discord convos I am moving on from NA I’ve had my fill of this nonsense.  Good luck @admin I have spent too many hours worrying about things that do not matter in life.  You may have the game you want, but your paying customers do not.  And we are not testers we are customers.  Somehow weve all forgotten we parted with $40 plus $15-20 for DLCs.  Good bye and so long.   I am moving onto other hobbies that will be more rewarding for me and less disappointment.   I’m sorry you’ve become so blinded by your own ego and hubris I cannot support it anymore.   Consider this an official review of your conduct and performance.  With great contempt and disgust.  

JDAM

I do not know how many hours you have played the game, but it always gets me when I see people mention how much the game cost as if it gives them unending rights. What people have spent on this game is not even an average night out on the town, yet people have had thousands of hours play time. Personally if the game closed its servers tomorrow I would be disappointed but I could never say I did not get my moneys worth out of it.

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5 hours ago, Archaos said:

I do not know how many hours you have played the game, but it always gets me when I see people mention how much the game cost as if it gives them unending rights. What people have spent on this game is not even an average night out on the town, yet people have had thousands of hours play time. Personally if the game closed its servers tomorrow I would be disappointed but I could never say I did not get my moneys worth out of it.

I always value a game in this means.  every hour of game play for me is worth 1 dollar. If you can get 60 hours out of a 40 dollar game than you have made your money back.  I have over 9K hours in this game. I for sure made my money back even with multi alts and DLC's.  What always gets me is I was paying 40-60 dollars for games 20-25 years ago.  With inflation honestly many of these games should be 100 or more, but they aren't.  If you can get 40+ hours out of a game you pretty much got your moneys worth.  We all know it takes a several hundred hours to even get into the game and it's mechanics.

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19 hours ago, Captain Reverse said:

we play different games. And hardly come to something. In my world, playing 1-2 hour a day - you can have everything in this game.

 

It's nice to hear that you are so organized/skilled/smart/efficient that you can succed in the game playing two hours a day, but - unfortunately - it's not a relevant point when: 

- the game is underpopulated (so it should attract and keep in game also DIFFERENT kind of players than the ones that like/can play efficiently the game as it is right now)

- it seems that a plurality of players still playing the game find the game too time demandind

Moreover, I would add that the problem of time is not just a matter of hours but also of "intensity". Let's take some examples: in Warframe, you can make a sortie that in about an hour gives you a lot of action. In WOW you can make a dungeon with a mythic key 10 that in half an hour will give you contiuous, frenetic (and also quiite difficult) action; in EVE online you can do in half a hour a LVL 4 missions (let's say angel extravaganza) that will have you constantly on fight (and with the risk of being killed by NPC if you commit mistakes in triggering the wrong group). How much action are you able to meet in a half an hour session of Naval action?

 

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Posted (edited)

You cant even really get a battle in an hour, a not trash one that is, unless you go to pz or something which I mean is like a lobby game on the scale of OW. If you look at the map 100% of the time you'll find almost no info as to where the real hotspots are.

Edited by Slim McSauce

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20 hours ago, Sir Loorkon said:

I think the whole game is going in the right direction now. Economie war (rare woods) for clans and nations and people that like RvR with more micro management for clans that own towns. PvP medals that make it possible to live better from PvP again by selling them. Keeping the ship diversity high by making the best ships rare with the intelligent use of permits. I like that. 

It is considered to remove the reinforcement zones (maybe by keeping the capital zones). That is also a very good move but I would recommend to combine it with the remove of the patrol zones (patrol zones would not be necessary any more) and give players only the duel zone/area. So all mechanics that hurt OW PvP and RvR would be removed.

I am looking forward to the release.

'intelligent use of permits' is not the words I'd use to describe it.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, victor said:

It's nice to hear that you are so organized/skilled/smart/efficient that you can succed in the game playing two hours a day, but - unfortunately - it's not a relevant point when: 

- the game is underpopulated (so it should attract and keep in game also DIFFERENT kind of players than the ones that like/can play efficiently the game as it is right now)

- it seems that a plurality of players still playing the game find the game too time demandind

Moreover, I would add that the problem of time is not just a matter of hours but also of "intensity". Let's take some examples: in Warframe, you can make a sortie that in about an hour gives you a lot of action. In WOW you can make a dungeon with a mythic key 10 that in half an hour will give you contiuous, frenetic (and also quiite difficult) action; in EVE online you can do in half a hour a LVL 4 missions (let's say angel extravaganza) that will have you constantly on fight (and with the risk of being killed by NPC if you commit mistakes in triggering the wrong group). How much action are you able to meet in a half an hour session of Naval action?

 

1) u can leave city and and attack the first comer NPC Fleet. 2 hour and u can kill maybe 3-4-5-6 NPC fleet?

2) U can go to patrol area. 2 hour and u have 70k damage=10 Combat medal. I give u 100% 

3) If u love trading, u can go trade. 2 hour - 2kk reals profit +- 

4) U need ships and craft? 2 hour and u can collect all resurse from nears city

5) Epic Events? 2 hours - this is 1-2 epic events with good chest

6) Maybe u wont RVR for VM? ok, u need 2 day, 2 hours each. DAY 1 - u come flip city. DAY 2 - u come try capture city

 

YES, THIS IS VERY EASY GAME with many content for 2x hour per day.

 

just need to turn on the fantasy :)

Edited by Captain Reverse

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Captain Reverse said:

just need to turn on the fantasy :)

Sorry mate, but you made me laugh big time.

If you have to use the fantasy to turn naval action in a very easy and intense game, it means that - in reality - it is not.

Ps: BTW I asked you how much action you will meet in half an hour of NA play, not in two hours. Anyway no prob, tot capita tot sententiae

Edited by victor

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, Sir Loorkon said:

 Keeping the ship diversity high by making the best ships rare with the intelligent use of permits. I like that. 

I'd rather say that any decent ship is now behind the permit wall, even the Surprise .... I mean ... do you really think that the Surprise shall be kept a "rare" ship?

Another example: the indefatigable, has always been - since it's introduction in the game - the most used ships in PVE and has been also put behind a PVP wall ... is this it an "intelligent" use of the permits?

At the end of the story - now - only the Belle poule, the Frigate, the Pirate Frigate and the Agamemnon are now "free" from the PVP wall. Do you actually think that all the other ships shall be deemed as "rare" or reserved to PVP players?

I think the devs suppose so, since their mindset is PVP players only on war server, and carebears only on PVE. But this is a big mistake that will cut off the game a lot of potential players that like both PVE and PVP in the same game with the same character.

Edited by victor
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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Routan said:

Who did  actually  sail a surprise before?

A lot of players (including the most feared PVP pro players) used surprise, mostly people looking for an effective PVP all around cheap ship. Essex is not good for PVP since it lacks chasers.

Anyway, even if your statement was true, this very fact would have been a reason not to make surprise a "rare" ship.

PS: in general I do not feel as much need as you to wait an see. Maybe you wern't playing the game at those times, but this is not the first "austerity"/"pvp mark"/"pvp wall" patch that the devs decided to put in the game, so I have already seen what this kind of things are likely to cause in the game after a couple of months,

 

Edited by victor

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2 hours ago, Routan said:

But it is not game Breaking what is happing now.

you may be true, but the point is another: add a not breaking (yet annoying) change the day before yesterday, another one yesterday, anohter one today, another one tomorrow ... and you end up with too few players to make the game work properly as a MMO.

 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, StuntPotato said:

intelligent use of permits' is not the words I'd use to describe it.

So how would you describe it? „Very intelligent“ or „great“ or ... . I mean what is your suggestion to keep up diversity of ships? Using permits seems intelligent to me.

Look at this forum. The best (attention, that is ironic) posts are those where people complain that with the permits and fine woods changes they can not (?) run the best wood PvP ships any more. Of course without doing PvP (or maybe RvR) it should be hard to get those ships, but if a player does not participate in PvP he does not need those ships anyway. The best ship to run away can be made of fir/fir. 

New players should use cheap oak/oak ships or shop ships first, they will get sunk 100 times any way so it is better to sink in a cheap ship and after that those that stay in and learned will have found ways to get better ships. We will all use oak/oak ships at release.

Edited by Sir Loorkon
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3 hours ago, Routan said:

But it is not game Breaking what is happing now. Ppl have another choise of ship and also the posibility to get acces. Patrole zone made that possible. 

5 rate more ore less died when demasting got a thing. I use Surprice before that, but after demasting think most went bigger ships.

I played last time when we had PvP marks.  Made a bit in OW fighting and Pb’s. But also in patrolezone. I made between 100-200 a week, depending on luck and game time, and ofc what I ells did. My guess with the new system I proberbly will make somewhere between 10-30 cm a week.

Ppl had other choices of ships + woods in the other 'experiments' as well.. the net result was the same every time. Why go back to a dud?

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7 minutes ago, Routan said:

So if I got it right. Makes no different at all, why should devs not then have the game they want, hard,- ore softcore makes no different?

It does if you want to see the game succeed post release. In order for the game to be interesting it needs players playing it. The direction this is going is just going to see yet another drop in playerbase and we've seen it all before.. Immediately after a patch ppl come back, see what's what and then they leave because the game has become even more clan-based, even less skill-based and even less solo-player friendly than before. For each patch we see fewer and fewer coming back to see what's what. An empty server isn't a game, it's a vault for the dearly departed dream of what could've been.

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, Routan said:

But did we not also have problems with Numbers before. As long I can remember back, Numbers have been an Issue. Just look at steam charts.

But what we see now might be close to the Real Numbers in the game. Alts have little value now, and with the xp wipe. I Think that the Numbers havent dropped big times, do say something.

they have dropped, if you count the January sale on steam mate.

Back in the days - before all this austerity/hardcore frenzy - we had some like 800 players EU prime time.

Edited by victor

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6 hours ago, Slim McSauce said:

You cant even really get a battle in an hour, a not trash one that is, unless you go to pz or something which I mean is like a lobby game on the scale of OW. If you look at the map 100% of the time you'll find almost no info as to where the real hotspots are.

What PvP is trash? The only trash ones I know of are when newbs get ganked by pros. To find action, I always use the Combat News in game...it pretty much sums up exactly where things are going down. And if I see a nation mate or friendly get hit, I know where to hunt.

On another note, people in this forum for the last few days are refusing to look at this game from a new buyer's perspective. They will have no clue what changes were made in the past to be able to compare it to the moment they bought it. I am certain that if you look at every major patch from a "Day One" perspective, you will find nothing that is so detrimentally negative that will make the game unplayable and not enjoyable. This game is lovely. It is beautiful. And it is amazingly fun! And if we are worrying about population, then we need to announce the positives in reviews and to others. ......OR....people can just keep bashing the shit out of it because they keep looking at it from their own perspective that has years of testing and changes.

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29 minutes ago, Routan said:

They dropped back in May. Why?

- Ppl got tried of  grinding gold to pay for ports.

- Ppl got tired of owning a port, because they didn’t matter. All could be bought by alts.

All had acces to all woods and upgrades basicly. Wm was a problem with the top 4 getting them. Admin changed that. Did Numbers go up, not really. It was the dlc ships that brought up the Numbers.

ok man, see what you want to see. 

The story of this game, of the countless two step ahead end one back patches and the infinite forum wars between pvpers and carebears led me to think that:

This game is struggling in retaining casual and average players. 

And that happened simply because - at a certain points - Devs wanted to chase in the PVE server any player that did not enjoy a full life/hardcore PVP engagement in the game.

If this situation goes on until the launch, the game will probably be a failure (unless you consider a success having a peak of 400 players on Saturday evenings).

 

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