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Patch 30: General feedback

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3 minutes ago, angriff said:

 

This adjustment will now make PVP / PZ Zone battles that much more unendurable and lengthy with repairs in battle repairing more of a ship damage making the victor the one that carries the most repairs.  

I do not think you get how they work and what changed. 
Repairs are not repairing more damage, as you still repair % of HP. you just need less items. 

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1 minute ago, admin said:

I do not think you get how they work and what changed. 
Repairs are not repairing more damage, as you still repair % of HP. you just need less items. 

So repairs are not repairing 300 percent per in battle?

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7 minutes ago, admin said:

We need to ensure rarity, motivation to go out and fight other players or do complex missions and diversity of ships.
As a result ships like christian, bellona, indefatigable are obtainable from the PVP chests (and slightly less often) from gold pve chests.
Each class now has normal vessels, somewhat less widely spread and rare ships
Example 5th rates
Frigate/belle poule/essex - widely available
Trincomalee - permit (but can be bought so is still widely available but less than normal 5th rates)
Endymion - rare.

Ahh, i'm not liking this.  When anything becomes rare it ends up only being available to the elite.  A two-tier system and massive unhappiness. One of the reasons I stepped away from clan play was that the best items were distributed to the "top" players.  Going it alone allowed me to build my own and sail what I built.  The biggest chests are far more difficult to get for solos.  Everything below 3rd rate should be widely available.

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1 hour ago, admin said:

Thats why you need 3x less of them now :) hope you are happy 
i definitely know many pvp players are happy with this change

@admin its not gonna work out as you think.. people wont bring the same amount of repairs to stay out longer.. they will bring less repairs to hold out 2-3 battles and prioritize speed increase.. please make some kind of mechanic that would let us use the beautiful landscape to repair our ships ashore.

Edited by Wyy

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17 minutes ago, admin said:

We need to ensure rarity, motivation to go out and fight other players or do complex missions and diversity of ships.
As a result ships like christian, bellona, indefatigable are obtainable from the PVP chests (and slightly less often) from gold pve chests.
Each class now has normal vessels, somewhat less widely spread and rare ships
Example 5th rates
Frigate/belle poule/essex - widely available
Trincomalee - permit (but can be bought so is still widely available but less than normal 5th rates)
Endymion - rare. 

@admin I must suggest caution with this approach though.

The "best ships" in each class being behind permits or hard to find chests still leaves the problem of how the widely available ships should be able to go toe to toe with their respective counterparts.

I would like you to look at 6th rate and shallow water 5ths and see some interesting disparities. There is some clear problems I think that come up here.

1. You have Brigs and Mercury's being not permited, but they can't compete with "bigger 6ths"

2. You have the shallow 5th rates where a Cerb does not need a permit, but the reno and surprise do. The Cerb though can still kick all 6th rate ships with little risk.

3. Hercules/Requin DLC - Makes me wonder why I'd ever waste time crafting 6ths or getting permits for Surprise/reno when the DLCs are arguably a little better then all of them.

10 minutes ago, angriff said:

So repairs are not repairing 300 percent per in battle?

they are not.

if you use 30 repairs to repair 20% HPs (1 repair action with no bonuses), after this change you only use 10 repairs to repair 20%. Repairs have not been increased at all, the only thing that changed is using less repairs per repair action.

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8 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

Ahh, i'm not liking this.  When anything becomes rare it ends up only being available to the elite.  A two-tier system and massive unhappiness. One of the reasons I stepped away from clan play was that the best items were distributed to the "top" players.  Going it alone allowed me to build my own and sail what I built.  The biggest chests are far more difficult to get for solos.  Everything below 3rd rate should be widely available.

I highly agree.

I feel 5th rates and 6th rates should have no permit limitation except for maybe 1 ship (or 2 if you're feeling that you need it).

I also would say that I would enjoy a durability addition back on 5th and 6th rate vessels.

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4 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

@admin

3. Hercules/Requin DLC - Makes me wonder why I'd ever waste time crafting 6ths or getting permits for Surprise/reno when the DLCs are arguably a little better then all of them.

 

I know one streamer who is taking bets against this statement. They are not arguably better at all. They are good but not better. If you do not agree you can prove it by taking the bet from the streamer.

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30 minutes ago, admin said:

We need to ensure rarity, motivation to go out and fight other players or do complex missions and diversity of ships.
As a result ships like christian, bellona, indefatigable are obtainable from the PVP chests (and slightly less often) from gold pve chests.
Each class now has normal vessels, somewhat less widely spread and rare ships
Example 5th rates
Frigate/belle poule/essex - widely available
Trincomalee - permit (but can be bought so is still widely available but less than normal 5th rates)
Endymion - rare. 

If you rarefy some ships,  players will not go out at sea with them .... very bad idea

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31 minutes ago, admin said:

We need to ensure rarity, motivation to go out and fight other players or do complex missions and diversity of ships.
As a result ships like christian, bellona, indefatigable are obtainable from the PVP chests (and slightly less often) from gold pve chests.
Each class now has normal vessels, somewhat less widely spread and rare ships
Example 5th rates
Frigate/belle poule/essex - widely available
Trincomalee - permit (but can be bought so is still widely available but less than normal 5th rates)
Endymion - rare. 

I can actually get behind that. (But, but, but... my precious Endy.... 😭)

Edit: Be aware though that (much like the Rattlesnake now) those rare ships will often end up as Dock-Queens that never get taken out to sea, because people fear losing their shiniez.

Edited by Tom Farseer
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8 minutes ago, admin said:

I know one streamer who is taking bets against this statement. They are not arguably better at all. They are worse. If you do not agree you can prove it by taking the bet from the streamer.

I don't disagree with this statement, I was quick to make a judging remark without adding too much detail,

The point I am trying to make is that the availability of the Requin/Herc every 24 hours, will make it clear from my perspective that the Ships behind a permit wall in the shallows will be seen by many as a waste. I don't think I'll attempt to make a Navy Brig ever when I can get the hercules for "free." 

the "Why should i get X which requires 'this and that', when i can just get this and not worry about it?"

EDIT: Clarity - I come from a perspective of using these ships largely for RvR purposes.

I can't for the life of me see why I'd ever use a Mercury or a Brig when I can access the Cerberus without a permit, or a hercules/requin. That's where my concern comes in.

 

Edited by Teutonic
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1 hour ago, Tiedemann said:

I like that battles are open for 20 minutes. It increases the probability of players finding other players to fight when sailing through OW. Yes it makes PvE battles a lot more dangerous, but this is the PvP server.

Before this patch I could sail around for 2-3 hours and find NOTHING! I hated that, a game that I invest several hours into and it is just boring. When that happens 2 or more times I understand that players are disappointed. I just stopped sailing around hunting in OW.
Now this has changed a lot. All I need to do is look at the map and find the "front lines" of a nation with a lot of players. There the PvE players roam for enemy AI fleets. So I sail there and guess what!? It is amazing because I stumble upon several OW battles that I can join. And the kicker is that it is not right in front of their nation capital either. So I'm very pleased with how this is working so far.

Something that is missing here imo is the risk vs reward for the players doing PvE. Imo we should consider making PvE similar to trading. So the further away from your nations capital you are, the more rewarding the PvE could be. I'm not sure how this could be done though.. And it would not work for the hard core nations. So maybe just make all the PvE the hard core nations do super rewarding 😂 

If you make pvp losses harder to recover from, there will be less pvp. Not being able to be reasonable safe while grinding towards a pvp replacement is just that. The new battle join mechanics are needlessly complex, encourage alt shenanigans and logon traps, and punish people just wanting to bash some npcs while relaxing. And yes, risk vs reward for pve is a great idea, with the juiciest npc spawns not appearing in reinforcement zones (just ditch capital zones), anything larger than a frigate has no business venturing inside a hostile nations waters. The new npc pickle spawns is a step in that direction. Chain bashing 12 npc first rates with your friends should be the pinnacle of pve and those areas should be fought over, and it should happen outside reinforcement.

Personally I think the pvpers should be heavily enticed to stay away from reinforcements zones, allowing more casual players room to build up and learn. Forcing people to play their way at their leisure can only be detrimental in the long run. At least it has been that way for me.


Off topic:
Stop seeding craftables and base resources into the market. Remove permits and doubloon costs from ship building. Grant pvp marks for ship loss and ship assists/kills (not captured, because alts). 

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47 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

Ahh, i'm not liking this.  When anything becomes rare it ends up only being available to the elite.  A two-tier system and massive unhappiness. One of the reasons I stepped away from clan play was that the best items were distributed to the "top" players.  Going it alone allowed me to build my own and sail what I built.  The biggest chests are far more difficult to get for solos.  Everything below 3rd rate should be widely available.

So it is that way in the real world,  the rich get richer and poor get poorer until they revolt.   Revolt in this game's case is quit.

What will happen is the players like me will never ever have one of these rare ships as I do not play in the manner that is required to get them.  If per chance I find one and purchase it after hours and hours of trading to get enough reals anymore then I will cherish it and never risk it in combat.  Elite players will rarely see them in combat.

Players that have these elite rare ships will find it easier and easier to defeat me, assuming they ever find me, then become bored with the ease of the game and become bored too. 

 

Edited by angriff
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57 minutes ago, admin said:

We need to ensure rarity, motivation to go out and fight other players or do complex missions and diversity of ships.
As a result ships like christian, bellona, indefatigable are obtainable from the PVP chests (and slightly less often) from gold pve chests.
Each class now has normal vessels, somewhat less widely spread and rare ships
Example 5th rates
Frigate/belle poule/essex - widely available
Trincomalee - permit (but can be bought so is still widely available but less than normal 5th rates)
Endymion - rare. 

Rarity will induce fear of losing said rare ship. It will not motivate the fighting.
Making these notes "slightly less often" available from gold chests is quite a slap in the face of your PvE population. I can understand why you did it that way, but we need something to compensate on PvE for the absence of PvP chests then...

At least now we have official info as on why there's nothing in admiralty. This is going to piss quite a lot of people...

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51 minutes ago, admin said:

We need to ensure rarity, motivation to go out and fight other players or do complex missions and diversity of ships.
As a result ships like christian, bellona, indefatigable are obtainable from the PVP chests (and slightly less often) from gold pve chests.
Each class now has normal vessels, somewhat less widely spread and rare ships
Example 5th rates
Frigate/belle poule/essex - widely available
Trincomalee - permit (but can be bought so is still widely available but less than normal 5th rates)
Endymion - rare. 

@admin

Sometimes I wonder if you have ever played the game on PvP server.... Because you are asking player to kill 10 ship of a class, which mean way more than 10 kill because there is many class of ship on the see and after that you will open a cheat with a RNG chance of dropping a permit ... and RIP the player didn't get the permit ship that he wanted, so he can farm it again.

You are asking player to farm PvP to have a chance to play with a good ship....

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1 hour ago, admin said:

I know one streamer who is taking bets against this statement. They are not arguably better at all. They are good but not better. If you do not agree you can prove it by taking the bet from the streamer.

You can make Surprise/Reno or Niagara ok/good ships with best mods. Vanilla ships no mods, no books is the best test and I am happy to try. I have gold Reno/Surprise and gold quality Niagara with best mods in game, but that makes any test biased. We want to test if the ships are balanced, not mods.

Edited by Banished Privateer

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22 hours ago, admin said:

We need to ensure rarity, motivation to go out and fight other players or do complex missions and diversity of ships.

Why? Why not make the game more attractive instead of less attractive, by giving us more freedom (not less) to choose how we wish to play the game? Many of us find the game hardly worth playing now, due to the increased risk and grind - in particular due to:
1) the massively increased difficulty in replacing ships - largely due to the new scarcity of rare woods, and the new requirement to buy ship notes with Combat Medals,
2) the unpredictability of OW battles (e.g. picking fight with a lone NPC, only to find we are up against additional enemy ships, without warning), 
3) the ability of enemy players to muscle in on our battle for up to 20 minutes after it has started,
4) the scarcity of materials needed to craft important upgrades (Cartagena tar, copper ingots, greenheart logs, etc).

Since Patch 30, I've seen the player count drop, and Steam rating is now down to "Mostly Negative"...  I am not surprised.

Edited by Aldeveron
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9 minutes ago, Aldeveron said:

Since Patch 30, I've seen the player count drop, and Steam rating is now down to "Mostly Negative"...  I am not surprised.

A lot of people are inactive waiting for release ATM. I am, and so are my clan mates and other friends in the game.

the fact, people with tons of hours in game dare to give a negative critic to a game they wasted so much of their life in, is kinda interresting.

On the other hand, a lot of the bad reviews are from new players with less than 500hours. Game is hard to pick, and people don't think about going on youtube etc.

It is about time for gameslab to sponsor some tutorial video already existing and make them available in game as knowledge base.

Edited by RKY
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11 minutes ago, Aldeveron said:

Why?? Why not make the game more attractive instead of less attractive, by giving us more freedom (not less) to choose how we wish to play the game? Many of us find the game hardly worth playing now, due to the increased risk and grind. In particular due to:
1) the massively increased difficulty in replacing lost ships - largely due to the new scarcity of rare woods, and the new requirement to buy ship notes with Combat Medals.
2) unpredicatability of OW battles (e.g. picking fight with a lone NPC, only to find we are up against additional enemy ships, without warning). 
3) the ability of enemy ships to muscle in on our battle for up to 20 minutes after it has started.

Since Patch 30, I've seen the player count drop, and Steam rating is now down to "Mostly Negative"...  I am not surprised.

I must agree… if you cannot replace your ship, you wont risk it.

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5 hours ago, admin said:

it works for every open world battle - the side with lower BR when 2 min pass can be reinforced. 

Let's say I am in my 1st rate and I want to attack NPC fleet consisting of 2 3rd rate ships. How do I know their BR ? How do I know I am safe to fight? How do I know if somebody gonna join at 19 minutes after battle starts when half of my armour is gone ?

Is there any indication for me if my battle is open, is closed ? Do I see BR anywhere in battle or before tagging ? 

@admin why don't you spawn repairs regularly (just like shroud cay or kpr or la habana) in some regional capitols or all ports, but NPC selling them slightly more than double the production cost ? So we have repairs when needed, and if players craft some, they still profit %100 .

Edited by Aerospace

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34 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

You can make Surprise/Reno or Niagara ok/good ships with best mods. Vanilla ships no mods, no books is the best test and I am happy to try. I have gold Reno/Surprise and gold quality Niagara with best mods in game, but that makes any test biased. We want to test if the ships are balanced, not mods.

Мы можем проверить, ради интереса, без наград)

Обычный Сюрприз против обычного Геркулеса, без апгрейдов в соло патруль ареа. Аж самому стало интересно))) 

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2 hours ago, admin said:

We need to ensure rarity, motivation to go out and fight other players or do complex missions and diversity of ships.
As a result ships like christian, bellona, indefatigable are obtainable from the PVP chests (and slightly less often) from gold pve chests.
Each class now has normal vessels, somewhat less widely spread and rare ships
Example 5th rates
Frigate/belle poule/essex - widely available
Trincomalee - permit (but can be bought so is still widely available but less than normal 5th rates)
Endymion - rare. 

@admin What you have done is made ships that don't need to be rare are now elite and available for only elite players. And these elitists will never sell their best ships of each class and will never sell their Combat Medals because they want to be the only elite players. The only ships that need to be rare are SoLs. And those should require the nation to produce, not just elite players.

I am curious with the upcoming port autonomy patch if somehow these needlessly rare ships will be more readily available.

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3 hours ago, admin said:

all/most permits are in game with the exception of French Le Hermione
they are in captain and admiral chests. 

are you playing on the pve server?

Hope you are aware of how difficult will be the completition of missions that say kill 10 players sailing in this very specific ship.

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Just now, Intrepido said:

Hope you are aware of how difficult will be the completition of missions that say kill 10 players sailing in this very specific ship.

PVP missions are by class.  My worry is that the only way to get an Admirals chest is by killing SOLs.

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3 hours ago, Teutonic said:

@admin I must suggest caution with this approach though.

The "best ships" in each class being behind permits or hard to find chests still leaves the problem of how the widely available ships should be able to go toe to toe with their respective counterparts.

I would like you to look at 6th rate and shallow water 5ths and see some interesting disparities. There is some clear problems I think that come up here.

1. You have Brigs and Mercury's being not permited, but they can't compete with "bigger 6ths"

2. You have the shallow 5th rates where a Cerb does not need a permit, but the reno and surprise do. The Cerb though can still kick all 6th rate ships with little risk.

3. Hercules/Requin DLC - Makes me wonder why I'd ever waste time crafting 6ths or getting permits for Surprise/reno when the DLCs are arguably a little better then all of them.

they are not.

if you use 30 repairs to repair 20% HPs (1 repair action with no bonuses), after this change you only use 10 repairs to repair 20%. Repairs have not been increased at all, the only thing that changed is using less repairs per repair action.

That is what I thought.  The repairs now can repair more.  I suppose the fact that you might carry less then it would be the same but that increased the permutations to confuse the discussion.  So if we think you carry the same amount in battle you can repair more times in total now.  This is why my comment of repairing will now lengthen the battles as players can repair more often albeit the longer timer each time I guess. 

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4 hours ago, admin said:

We need to ensure rarity, motivation to go out and fight other players or do complex missions and diversity of ships.
As a result ships like christian, bellona, indefatigable are obtainable from the PVP chests (and slightly less often) from gold pve chests.
Each class now has normal vessels, somewhat less widely spread and rare ships
Example 5th rates
Frigate/belle poule/essex - widely available
Trincomalee - permit (but can be bought so is still widely available but less than normal 5th rates)
Endymion - rare. 

While I have no issue making these ships accessible through  chests, can we eliminate the RNG component of this?

Lets say I complete ten pvp missions and open ten chests, because I want an Endymion permit, but I only get Bellona/Indefat/Trinc/niagara permits, I'm at the mercy of RNG after having completed all of the necessary steps to have earned this ship permit ten times over, but RNG doesn't favor me on the front end, I'm stuck sailing a ship I don't want. 

I appreciate RNG adds to the life of players playing the game chasing those loot boxes, but can we limit that to ship mods and knowledge books and make all ship permits outside of Lineships easily available.

If you want to retain it in some form, but dilute itmake each of ratings have a unique permit that works for any ship of that rate. So you pop open the chest and you get a 4th rate permit, valid for any 4th rate.

Edited by Rabman
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