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Patch 30: General feedback

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2 minutes ago, admin said:

it is a priority to fix but it will take time so partial fix is better than none

But WHAT is a partial fix? what is the problem in the first place. If you tell us we can do our best to avoid the problem or at least work around it

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2 hours ago, admin said:

based on its hp and firepower its a 4th rate.

i've agreed with many of your arguments, but this i dont get it. Being crafted in late 18th century i would assume the agamemnon to be a light 3rd rate, and as the uss heavy frigates would never engage any lineships because they were more sturdier. Then why wouldnt it be more logical having the indef at 9k hp, connie and united states at 11khp and the old 4th rates at 13k hp and agamemnon at more or less same hp as the 3rd rate?

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9 minutes ago, Jan van Santen said:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_and_tackle

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portsmouth_Block_Mills

The Portsmouth Block Mills form part of the Portsmouth Dockyard at Portsmouth, Hampshire, England, and were built during the Napoleonic Wars to supply the British Royal Navy with pulley blocks. They started the age of mass-production using all-metal machine tools and are regarded as one of the seminal buildings of the British Industrial Revolution. They are also the site of the first stationary steam engines used by the Admiralty.

 

 

 

Why are you even so furious about the rate change? It means nothing for the ship ingame, it is just a balancing decision due to Solo Patrol and 5th rate group missions.

The ship itself didnt change at all.

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27 minutes ago, Jan van Santen said:

If you mean Royal Navy by RN: it rated Indefat a 5th, as quoted in my post above.

You are correct in that historically HMS indefatigable was a 5th rate frigate. Historically, she also never carried 22 friggin 42 pound carronades on each side.
With that setup she easily outclasses other frigates on close range and built with a bit of speed in mind (T/W or T/Bermuda) can take on any 4th rate.
So with her current ahistorical armament, in my opinion she deserves her ahistorical ingame rating.

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2 minutes ago, Wyy said:

i've agreed with many of your arguments, but this i dont get it. Being crafted in late 18th century i would assume the agamemnon to be a light 3rd rate, and as the uss heavy frigates would never engage any lineships because they were more sturdier. Then why wouldnt it be more logical having the indef at 9k hp, connie and united states at 11khp and the old 4th rates at 13k hp and agamemnon at more or less same hp as the 3rd rate?

In game HP is based on hull dimensions and quality of build. Constitution is almost equal in HP to Bellona. 

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44 minutes ago, Malachi said:

Posting wiki entries won´t get you anywhere. The question is whether the in-game rating does make sense or not.

Ship rating in classes is very coarse w.r.t. fighting power. For this we have BR in game. 

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3 minutes ago, Abram Svensson said:

Why are you even so furious about the rate change? It means nothing for the ship ingame, it is just a balancing decision due to Solo Patrol and 5th rate group missions.

The ship itself didnt change at all.

But its relvence and use HAS changed dramatically

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Just now, Neads O'Tune said:

But its relvence and use HAS changed dramatically

Where exactly?

What has changed from yesterday to today besides the mission and patrol entry?

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3 minutes ago, Abram Svensson said:

Why are you even so furious about the rate change? It means nothing for the ship ingame, it is just a balancing decision due to Solo Patrol and 5th rate group missions.

The ship itself didnt change at all.

Furious ? 

You havent seen me like that, yet :)

What you witnes here is plain logic: If Indefat is balanced because of SP Zone than why do we still see LReq vs Niagara in the 6th rate SP ?

Either the argument is valid for all classes in SP, or none.

somebody already pointed out  to simply exclude it from the 5th rate SP would have reached the same w/o bending history and balance in the 99% of game outside SP

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9 minutes ago, Abram Svensson said:

Why are you even so furious about the rate change? It means nothing for the ship ingame, it is just a balancing decision due to Solo Patrol and 5th rate group missions.

The ship itself didnt change at all.

It is nerf, cause your skillbooks lose their power for 1-3 rates :)

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Just now, AeRoTR said:

It is nerf, cause your skillbooks lose their power for 1-3 rates :)

wrong ship mate 😃
I think he was arguing about the indef being 4th rate, which effectively changes nothing apart from the missions stated above

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8 minutes ago, Abram Svensson said:

Why are you even so furious about the rate change? It means nothing for the ship ingame, it is just a balancing decision due to Solo Patrol and 5th rate group missions.

 The ship itself didnt change at all.

Means nothing? lol It means hello kittying load of things, shows how little you know about game mechanics.

1. Connie is now forced to use 1-3 rate books which are often much weaker than 4-5 books (consider it a nerf for both USS US and Connie, already weak ships that have "planned buff" somewhere "in the near future /soon/"

2. Connies and USS US won't be allowed in 4th rate patrols, which is a bit ridiculous.

3. You will need a higher level shipyard (3, which is very expensive) to build Connies/USS US. 

Do I need to keep going with how it changes a lot of things for worse/more complicated?

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Admin, when do we get our testbed rewards, within next 2 days after the wipe?

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4 minutes ago, Jan van Santen said:

Furious ? 

You havent seen me like that, yet :)

What you witnes here is plain logic: If Indefat is balanced because of SP Zone than why do we still see LReq vs Niagara in the 6th rate SP ?

Either the argument is valid for all classes in SP, or none.

somebody already pointed out  to simply exclude it from the 5th rate SP would have reached the same w/o bending history and balance in the 99% of game outside SP

Almost every game bends history for gameplay. Besides you are mostly talking about Indef and her rate. Start to talk more about the Requin then.

 

5 minutes ago, AeRoTR said:

It is nerf, cause your skillbooks lose their power for 1-3 rates :)

We are talking about the Indef and not the Conni until this point.

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28 minutes ago, Tom Farseer said:

wrong ship mate 😃
I think he was arguing about the indef being 4th rate, which effectively changes nothing apart from the missions stated above

Rofl to "changes nothing"

It makes the ship useless, is that nothing ?

As a 4th rate its subpar to the Aga and thus useless. So now ican neither be used in 5th and 4th patrol...

Granted, Devs are free to do that in an Early Acess game, but why ???

Balance in SP has already been proven not to be an argument by tthe example of LReq in 6th SP

 Any1 here seriously seeing 2 classes difference between LReq and Indefat ?? 

Same for the Connie: as 3rd its no match to a Bellona and for 4th rated patrols it cant be used anymore.

Thus for PvE the effect of todays reclassing equals 2 ship wipes. Weren't we told there are no ship wipes on PvE ??

Thank god i didnt put any effort into a Connie ....and I get 3 free dockspaces, formerly occupied by now useless Indefats....

Edited by Jan van Santen

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5 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

Means nothing? lol It means hello kittying load of things, shows how little you know about game mechanics.

1. Connie is now forced to use 1-3 rate books which are often much weaker than 4-5 books (consider it a nerf for both USS US and Connie, already weak ships that have "planned buff" somewhere "in the near future /soon/"

 

Then the rate change should have been saved until the changes to the ship itself were made

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4 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

Means nothing? lol It means hello kittying load of things, shows how little you know about game mechanics.

1. Connie is now forced to use 1-3 rate books which are often much weaker than 4-5 books (consider it a nerf for both USS US and Connie, already weak ships that have "planned buff" somewhere "in the near future /soon/"

2. Connies and USS US won't be allowed in 4th rate patrols, which is a bit ridiculous.

3. You will need a higher level shipyard (3, which is very expensive) to build Connies/USS US. 

Do I need to keep going with how it changes a lot of things for worse/more complicated?

We are talking about the Indefatigable and not the Conni.

Start reading my posts before you start to critisize my game knowledge.

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23 minutes ago, admin said:

In game HP is based on hull dimensions and quality of build. Constitution is almost equal in HP to Bellona. 

Wouldn't it be wise to leave the material quality out for the creation of base stats in-game?

In my opinion it should be so that an Oak/Oak Bellona in-game has similiar stats to a Live/White Constitution.. In real life it would be a true nightmare scenario for a ship like to Constitution to go up against a Ship of the Line built with the same quality of materials as she was. And I'm fairly certain that a regular Oak built british 74-SotL would devastate the USS Constitution.

EDIT: On a completely different note: do we even need rating in-game when we have BR?

Edited by Percival Merewether

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11 minutes ago, Jan van Santen said:

As a 4th rate its subpar to the Aga and thus useless. So now ican neither be used in 5th and 4th patrol...

Not with current armament options. Carro indef melts Aggy. Period. Seen it happen twice, yesterday, done it myself once right after as well. It it needs a difference in skill of both players but it is far from useless.

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9 minutes ago, Percival Merewether said:

EDIT: On a completely different note: do we even need rating in-game when we have BR?

As long as missions are based on ship rates, yes.
Logical conclusion: @admin maybe think about connecting mission tiers to BR rather than ship class? (Viability of that option is obviously dependent on coding effort)

Edited by Tom Farseer
grammar
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Why don't we limit carros to only upperdecks? Will solve all carro related problems like full carro ships melting bigger ship. No need to change ship rating just because carro opness. 

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45 minutes ago, admin said:

In game HP is based on hull dimensions and quality of build. Constitution is almost equal in HP to Bellona. 

Why don't you make BR the priority stat over ship rate and make it variable instead of fixed as it is now? Base it on broadside weight (varies with what cannons you have equipped), wood type and maybe upgrades equipped and/or crew % (don't know how far you want to push the BR calculation and what makes most sense).

This would probably be much harder to fine tune, and limitations would be needed to avoid absurd scenarios, but it would add to diversity in builds and ship choice and add some uncertainty in fights as it is harder to guess what kind of ships you have in front of you.

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29 minutes ago, Tom Farseer said:

Not with current armament options. Carro indef melts Aggy. Period. Seen it happen twice, yesterday, done it myself once right after as well. It it needs a difference in skill of both players but it is far from useless.

You forgot poods and PvE.

Edited by Jan van Santen

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Can't we halve the 5th Rate group and have in game, say, 8th Rates with the lightest frigates in a Rate and the heaviest in another ? Having HMS Cerberus and Trinco/Endymion in the same Rate and mixing 5th Rates of 174x and 5th Rates of 180x is not logical.

At least, a thorough review of in-game Rates taking into account the actually implemented ships, not the historical labels, would be nice.

 

PS : And please, give PvE server access to L'Hermione and the Wasa (ship notes or blueprints).

Edited by LeBoiteux
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