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Patch 30: Trading feedback

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14 minutes ago, Archaos said:

There are plenty of open to all ports along the way, plan your route accordingly. If you are going to an area where there is mainly enemy closed ports then stock up with deliveries before heading out there.

I guess I currently have an advantage playing Brit as they own so many ports, but I have done runs through Danish, Swedish and French waters and still been able to pick up enough missions to keep me going. You find in the end you eventually have to make a decision to stop taking missions or you could go on forever or until your ship became overloaded with doubloons.

give me a rough play by play of what you do? example
1. start in port - look at missions and take one to "X far away port"
2. start sailing in that direction and enter each port along the way.
3. accept missions that go to other port along the way

is that basically the gist of it?

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1 minute ago, Teutonic said:

give me a rough play by play of what you do? example
1. start in port - look at missions and take one to "X far away port"
2. start sailing in that direction and enter each port along the way.
3. accept missions that go to other port along the way

is that basically the gist of it?

Yes thats about right. For example the other day I started at KPR and there were a few missions to places like Old Providence, Serrana and Omoa, so I took them all then stopped into Carlisle and Port Morant to see what they had, if I remember correct there were some for the same area but also some for around the Tumbado area, so already a route is forming in my mind. Head down to OP then across to Gracias A Dios and follow the coast up to Belize and towards Tumbado. I then picked up a few more missions in the Cays before hitting Serrana to deliver the first mission. Most missions only paid around the 1k mark on this run but after 3 hours I was up around Santa Fe area where I took a break and next day finished off in about 1.5 hours finishing the Cuban coast heading down to Cayman Brac, across to Portillo and La Navasse before returning to Jamaican ports and back to KPR with 30k of Doubloons.

You dont have to visit every port and sometimes a lucrative run may cause a change of route, just keep an eye on which ports you are visiting and remember you cannot pick up more missions in enemy closed ports.

It is also handy on your trip round to gather intel on where the clan resources ports are, so far I have found 24 ports with clan resources.

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2 minutes ago, Archaos said:

 

It is also handy on your trip round to gather intel on where the clan resources ports are, so far I have found 24 ports with clan resources.

I don't mean to pry too hard - Are they primarily British ports then?

From the ports I know with clan resources - that would bring the # of ports that I know of to be about 40 ports in total.

 

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1 minute ago, Teutonic said:

I don't mean to pry too hard - Are they primarily British ports then?

From the ports I know with clan resources - that would bring the # of ports that I know of to be about 40 ports in total.

 

No a lot of the ports I have found are not Brit ports, I have yet to find Teak as a clan resource in a Brit port.

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Just now, Archaos said:

No a lot of the ports I have found are not Brit ports, I have yet to find Teak as a clan resource in a Brit port.

understood then, will lower the estimated resource ports again then.

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On 3/20/2019 at 8:29 PM, angriff said:

They could drop taxes to 4 percent but they dont.  Why is that unless only their indulgence?

I can only speak for my clan (SNOW), who currently hold 11 ports on War server. On a very good day we make up to 300k in tax money for the clan warehouse. On average we made just over 100k since the wipe and that number is falling now. Last few days trade volume was low, so we made less than we pay for our ports. Reducing tax to 4% simply isn't economically wise for us, as few people trade lately. For the first two weeks after wipe tax income was awesome because everyone tried to get to his personal base amount of money again. Once people are fine moneywise, with the current activity levels there is not much reason to trade, as long as you don't lose too many ships.
So taxes stay where they are mostly.
Also: Why would any Clan drop taxe rates currently? #GreedyGreedyCapitalism

Edited by Tom Farseer

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 I suppose the current roving rare wood forrest are a bit much and may have to move more often or maybe more forests with smaller volumes so they move more often.   Apparently the entire British side is without any teak other then 'found' teak on AI ships or shipwrecks.  

The Clans dont even know what ports to attack to get teak other then the one dropping port.

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35 minutes ago, angriff said:

The Clans dont even know what ports to attack to get teak other then the one dropping port.

^ This is an issue.

 

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PvE trading is ok to have as long as it doesn't conflict with player driven economy or conflict is not too radical. Ship resources and crafting are part of trading. Ships if we want that people trade ships.

Crafter of your ship should get reward based on its combat success. You also see who was the captain sailing the ship to earn your crafters reward.

Something like this was tested before. This would work as an additional reason to craft and sell ships. This can include xp but also something that lasts over the maximum rank.

Not much realism in this one, maybe crafter gets famous and rewarded from building successful designs and ships.

Labor Hours should be the limiting factor in crafting. I am not saying that players have to wait days to craft. This will decrease resource prices but increase material/parts prices. I don't like that much the idea that crafting is limited by rare resources or wood types. Wood Types should be in balance. Some resources can be more rare than others but limiting too much will directly limit the amount of war we wage.

Crafting parts should give you crafting xp, this is mandatory, and crafting resources to parts will increase value of your products. We add parts crafting LH requirements and decrease ship LH requirements. This will make parts trade much more interesting? Neither you want high level crafters to craft parts as that would decrease ship production. This increases social interactions, communication. Time is money, LH is time.

Trade window should have an option to pay from crafting. One will pass resources to be crafted and reward, another will craft to get the reward.

 

When players were leveling crafing, years ago. They wanted to buy resources from other players. As time is money, sailing a trader has a very god damn high value. You produce resources but if you don't get enough money from sailing a trader, you only transport for your own needs. The money you spend to get resources could be zero or very close to zero in case LH were more expensive. You create value for your resources by using expensive LH. If you have no other use, you can always get resources.

If LH reals value is about 0. You transport your LH valued resources to crafting port. Your income will be directly based on resources prices in the port, is almost directly the income you get from sailing a trader. Very low cost resource production will decrease risks to move resources and increase value of sailing a trader, not talking from LH price here.

As some people don't want to be crafters they have free LH. They can easily exchange LH to resources and the only task left is to sail a trader, invest time, exchange LH+time to money.

You don't sail a trader to transport your free resources and you don't find anyone to craft parts for, you lose your free income. I could imagine that players want to use this free income in a way or another.

 

Player driven economy should have a bigger role than PvE trading.

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22 hours ago, angriff said:

The Clans dont even know what ports to attack to get teak other then the one dropping port.

That is why they need to send people out exploring to find out where these clan resources are. I have found two ports with teak clan resources on my travels but they are not British ports. There is not a lot of RvR going on at the moment and that is why people are not really fighting for them, but once the final wipe is done and game released then I am sure the intel on such ports will be vital and nations will take them over to ensure their supply.

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Just tried a delivery mission (clanmate screenshot the mission).  Sailed from Truxillo to Turneffe.  Reals were paid but NO DOUBLOONS.  Others have tested and received both rewards but at a friendly port.  Maybe the delivery to enemy closed ports is bugged.

311310_screenshots_20190328075407_1.jpg

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4 minutes ago, SS Minnow said:

Just tried a delivery mission (clanmate screenshot the mission).  Sailed from Truxillo to Turneffe.  Reals were paid but NO DOUBLOONS.  Others have tested and received both rewards but at a friendly port.  Maybe the delivery to enemy closed ports is bugged.

311310_screenshots_20190328075407_1.jpg

did your doubloon chest portion have max or near maximum?

it seems when you get a doubloon reward it goes to your chest - but if your chest is full or full enough to not be able to fit in it, it won't accept the reward.

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1 minute ago, Teutonic said:

did your doubloon chest portion have max or near maximum?

No, only had 239 in the chest.  We will retest the mission to get all screenshots.

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15 minutes ago, SS Minnow said:

No, only had 239 in the chest.  We will retest the mission to get all screenshots.

will check  - 1000 doubloons should go into your chest or ship cargo.

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Update....a clanmate just completed the mission and was paid both reals and doubloons.

They went directly to his chest.  As i said i only had 239 in my chest.

The only difference is that I deleted my mission after taking it to make room for more.  He did not delete his mission.

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14 minutes ago, SS Minnow said:

Update....a clanmate just completed the mission and was paid both reals and doubloons.

They went directly to his chest.  As i said i only had 239 in my chest.

The only difference is that I deleted my mission after taking it to make room for more.  He did not delete his mission.

I just checked, had two of the same mission to deliver (one traded from an alt) and I received all rewards for both missions even though I only had mission for one.

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1 minute ago, Archaos said:

I just checked, had two of the same mission to deliver (one traded from an alt) and I received all rewards for both missions even though I only had mission for one.

Ty for testing.  I guess we still need to delete the mission before delivering the cargo to see for sure if that is the bug.

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Second Update:  Clanmate volunteered (thx to Evil) to test again.  He deleted his delivery mission and then delivered the cargo to Marsh.  Doubloons were not paid, reals were paid.

@adminThis confirms the bug occurs when you delete your delivery mission beforehand I believe.

We also tested doubloon missions from yesterday that were deleted.  This bug does not affect eco missions that were deleted yesterday before the patch.

Players that delete their delivery missions will be disappointed that no doubloons will be paid...so don't delete your missions until this is addressed.

Edited by SS Minnow

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I think the economy missions that now give huge amounts of Reals instead of the separate currency of Doubloons has now made the trade game redundant to the point of irrelevant.  There will be very little need for large cargo fleets with escorts needed to make a marginal profit in long distance runs for Reals now.  Players can now individually make more Reals taking passengers or cargo on short runs than entire loads of Textile machinery over long distances without  a risked investment.

With the expected implementation of little need to run resources to shipbuilding ports in the coming patch for self sustaining upgraded clan ports, I feel there will not be cargo ships on the water at all anymore for PVP players to intercept.  

The ability to see port commerce has proved its ability to allow players to determine the best spots for the interception of merchants.  However, if merchants die commerce dies and there is no tax on cargo to show this type of commerce then it will fail to provide the necessary intelligence for stationing and intercept.

 

There does not seem to be a consistent advance here with this economy mission change toward a higher level  of the required interaction of different type of players.  Additionally since there is no tax on the cargo missions there is no income for clans in these ports. 

Edited by angriff

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@admin Could you please clarify if the intention is to have a maximum of 10 missions (battle missions + economy missions = 10 max).  We are unsure if economy missions can be deleted and still get the reals and doubloons rewards upon delivery.  Yesterday we tested deleted cargo missions and found doubloons not being paid, only reals paid.  So it is strange.  Should we test again today?

Preliminary feedback:

I believe the intention is to have doubloons worth approx. 100 reals.  The doubloon rewards have gone down and the real rewards way up, so that seems like the correct method.  Doubloon costs for buildings, ship crafting, clan econ missions, etc. did not seem to change at all.  Maybe the doubloon costs should be lowered a bit.  For example, I think it costs 75,000 doubloons for 5000 WO logs (or 15 doubloons per log).  That would be 1500 reals per WO log.  Does that seem too much?

The delivery missions seem to pay a disproportionate reward compared to delivering trade goods.  I would bump up the consumption prices and maybe lower the delivery rewards a bit.

Edited by SS Minnow
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48 minutes ago, SS Minnow said:

  For example, I think it costs 75,000 doubloons for 5000 WO logs (or 15 doubloons per log).  That would be 1500 reals per WO log.  Does that seem too much?

Not sure on the rest of your post but currently WO is 50k doubloons for 5k.

In fact I do not believe there is any clan resource that is above a 50k doubloon fee. I still think it's expensive though.

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