Patch 30: Trading feedback

[admin]

6 minutes ago, Jan van Santen said:

You forgot that 1st rates can be capped on PvE server. So why would anybody invest the insane amount of time/reales/dublons after ppatch 30 into crafting an oak/oak SOL if he can just as well cap a ship of similar quality (or have it capped for him) ??

Oak/Oak just isnt part of PvE. None wants it, none crafts it.  Playeers want to be able to craft/afford something they cannot cap. 

As to historical arguments: Indefatigable 4th rate and Constitution an SOL is not what i read in naval history books.

 

I think you are listening to the wrong people. Who do not want you to sail a first rate.
Insane? Please calculate the resource cost of the 1st rate oak/oak Victory. Only then comment on the cost.

Oak oak is not wanted by many - but they are making a mistake some nations did in ww2.
To cap ports you need numbers - not quality.
After you get numbers you get quality.

Tiger tank was better and more expensive. But 1 tiger did not matter against 50 shermans or t-34s.
Think about it. 

Oak oak victory is still better than any other lower level ship +++. 50 oak oak victories is better than 5 live oak ones. 5 live oak victories do not have a single chance against 25 ships + 25 screen. Oak oak 1st rate is incredibly cheap.
Its all in the game

[Angus MacDuff]

12 minutes ago, admin said:

Tiger tank was better and more expensive. But 1 tiger did not matter against 50 shermans or t-34s.
Think about it. 

True, but no one in his right mind would take a Sherman against a Tiger.  And that's what we have here.  Players want to Build/sail the best ships possible.  Anything else is very unsatisfying and will cause bitterness.

[Jan van Santen]

 

18 minutes ago, admin said:

I think you are listening to the wrong people. Who do not want you to sail a first rate.
Insane? Please calculate the resource cost of the 1st rate oak/oak Victory. Only then comment on the cost.

Oak oak is not wanted by many - but they are making a mistake some nations did in ww2.
To cap ports you need numbers - not quality.
After you get numbers you get quality.

Tiger tank was better and more expensive. But 1 tiger did not matter against 50 shermans or t-34s.
Think about it. 

Oak oak victory is still better than any other lower level ship +++. 50 oak oak victories is better than 5 live oak ones. 5 live oak victories do not have a single chance against 25 ships + 25 screen. Oak oak 1st rate is incredibly cheap.
Its all in the game

I don't have to listen to people, I play on PvE for several thousand hours and can very well form my own opinion, thank you.

And again: oak /oak is not crafted on PvE server, we can cap ships of that quality....

Besides, I can sail but 1 LO or Victory, if you insist, with my 1400 crew. I want that to be a good ship and no oak/oak.

I was able to craft that quality ship before patch 30, why should I call it an increase in game quality if I can't anymore ? 

 

Edited March 15, 2019 by Jan van Santen

[Jan van Santen]

3 minutes ago, Routan said:

Think the answer was a reply on the war server. Thought you had acces to all on PvE. Just now you have to do a bit more do get it. Giving you a goal and a purpos to do it.

Acess isnt the point here. I also have access to the lottery jackpot. 

The point is the insane effort it now takes to craft an SOL on PvE server. And again: oak/oak is not crafted there, we can cap ai ships of that quality...

[Vernon Merrill]

13 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

True, but no one in his right mind would take a Sherman against a Tiger.  And that's what we have here.  Players want to Build/sail the best ships possible.  Anything else is very unsatisfying and will cause bitterness.

And that is the mindset that people will have to get over once we lose all our pretty pixels soon.  Again, oak/oak needs to be viewed as “normal”...  not “inferior”.  

(Which is why I push hard for wood/mod nerfs all the time.)

[bart430]

31 minutes ago, admin said:

Tiger tank was better and more expensive. But 1 tiger did not matter against 50 shermans or t-34s.
Think about it. 

 

Think about this, what poor sod wants to be in one of the 10 Sherman tanks that get taken out by that Tiger?

Yes,  you can take down larger enemys with smaller ships, but the people in the smaller ships that get taken out are out of a ship now.

With the new damage patch, ships of equal power take a lot more damage because the AI has laser scopes on their cannons. 

[Angus MacDuff]

10 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

And that is the mindset that people will have to get over once we lose all our pretty pixels soon.  Again, oak/oak needs to be viewed as “normal”...  not “inferior”.  

(Which is why I push hard for wood/mod nerfs all the time.)

If Oak/Oak was going to be normal for everyone, that would be a fair statement.  That will not be the case, however.  Those who don't manage to be on a Friends list will be stuck with oak while a privileged subset will have more quality.  There was some good suggestions for a more equitable split and i'm hoping @admin is taking note.

[Teutonic]

Just now, Routan said:

Ship are easy to replace. Even a 4 rate. Last I tjecked you could build a Agga with out permit. Think it was abouth 2700  dbl. It is a fine ship. 

 

I'm actually surprised the Aggie has no permit, but the Wapen and Inger do - and yet they have worse stats in almost every notable attribute.

[Wilhelm von Seydlitz]

 

So I tested an oak / white oak endymion, and it's not bad, you just have to get used to it 🙂

 

[Jan van Santen]

28 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

And that is the mindset that people will have to get over once we lose all our pretty pixels soon.  Again, oak/oak needs to be viewed as “normal”...  not “inferior”.  

(Which is why I push hard for wood/mod nerfs all the time.)

Oak/Oak will never be normal..as long as you can redeem a lo,tk, wo whatever LReq/Herc every day which is way superior to its oak/oak pendants.

 

[victor]

20 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

I'm actually surprised the Aggie has no permit, but the Wapen and Inger do - and yet they have worse stats in almost every notable attribute.

What really knocked me out was seeing that even a surprise now needs a permit for crafting.

[Holm Hansen]

36 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

And that is the mindset that people will have to get over once we lose all our pretty pixels soon.  Again, oak/oak needs to be viewed as “normal”...  not “inferior”.  

(Which is why I push hard for wood/mod nerfs all the time.)

Thats the same like blue ships before patch 10. Maybe they was "normal", but had someone want blue ships in this times? Even when fine woods was needed for higher qualities, still nobody crafted blue. And here is a bigger difference than two additional slots.

[Wilhelm von Seydlitz]

10 minutes ago, Jan van Santen said:

Oak/Oak will never be normal..as long as you can redeem a lo,tk, wo whatever LReq/Herc every day which is way superior to its oak/oak pendants.

 

that is an argument

[Teutonic]

9 minutes ago, victor said:

What really knocked me out was seeing that even a surprise now needs a permit for crafting.

I think it's bonkers mate, no doubt.

[angriff]

16 minutes ago, Jan van Santen said:

Oak/Oak will never be normal..as long as you can redeem a lo,tk, wo whatever LReq/Herc every day which is way superior to its oak/oak pendants.

 

Well you can use your combat medals to get whatever wood you want on your 120,000 Bellona to take out those 5 Live Oak Victories.. but wait .. there are not that many players and even if there were 85% of them would be excluded from the PB or worse the Noble Clan would be on vacation and nobody joins.

Been there done that got the T-Shirt and had to move all my stuff without a chance to defend my new home.

[van der Clam]

17 hours ago, Teutonic said:

You must be on their friendly clan list, and the port must have a rare resource to even get a clan delivery mission.

If that is what you are refering to.

TY, It just wasn't registering in my head properly.

2 hours ago, Intrepido said:

60k in one hour means around 50 hours of gameplay to get one. A ship you can lose in one battle.

Stop making NA so time demanding.

Im not so shortsighted to ask for a lineship every 2 hours. Please dont insult me.

Only an ignorant will build a first rate of oak oak considering the permits.

The game you are heading to will have 300 players online, the average number you got every time you make the game so grindy. Check the numbers when patch 27, fine woods, conquests marks were added and you will see who is right.

50 hours divided by clan members or absurd number of alts is nothing.

NA is not so time demanding...only if you want a certain ship that should be rare. And SoLs should be rare.

If Oak/Oak is all that is available for some, then you have to deal with it, or wait, or get more people involved to get the woods you want. What do you suppose other clans of other nations do? They'de have to sail Oak/Oak as well.

The game is not grindy to just grab a ship and sail. It's only grindy to get the perfect-kill-all-take-no-damage ship certain people want because they're too snooty or pretentious to sail anything else even though mostly everyone else is in the same position.

IMO, SoLs should be used mostly only for Port Battles, not OW. Losing SoLs in PBs means there would be less zerg flips in one day, making an entire nation to work toward being able to make another PB attack. As it should be, imo.

@admin and others, are there mods and perks combinations that could make an Oak/Oak ship survive as well as a LO/WO? If not, maybe things need to be adjusted?

[Sir Loorkon]

22 hours ago, admin said:

the other night or yesterday? Combat medals are now given for every pvp kill and assist (they are distributed between players who damaged the ship)
for example
if 10 players damaged the target 10% and the target price is 10 medals - everyone will get 1 medal.

I just boarded an player Ocean with my Santissima and than I sunk it (because I was surrounded by enemies and knew I would not make it out). I did not get any medals. Is that intended?

edit: Just logged in this morning and I had 5 medals. So there might be a delay but it worked.

Edited March 16, 2019 by Sir Loorkon

[angriff]

2 hours ago, Sir Loorkon said:

I just boarded an player Ocean with my Santissima and than I sunk it (because I was surrounded by enemies and knew I would not make it out). I did not get any medals. Is that intended?

We live in a participation trophy era.  All the people between the ages of 15 and 40 were given free trophies in sports.  It was a thing 

[Ligatorswe]

17 hours ago, admin said:

I think you are listening to the wrong people. Who do not want you to sail a first rate.
Insane? Please calculate the resource cost of the 1st rate oak/oak Victory. Only then comment on the cost.

Oak oak is not wanted by many - but they are making a mistake some nations did in ww2.
To cap ports you need numbers - not quality.
After you get numbers you get quality.

Tiger tank was better and more expensive. But 1 tiger did not matter against 50 shermans or t-34s.
Think about it. 

Oak oak victory is still better than any other lower level ship +++. 50 oak oak victories is better than 5 live oak ones. 5 live oak victories do not have a single chance against 25 ships + 25 screen. Oak oak 1st rate is incredibly cheap.
Its all in the game

I like the idea with a limited amount of the best woods. And to make cheaper types of woods more common.

But there is a problem. The most influential clans (with players with lots of alts) will always get rare wood. Like my clan REDS. Isnt the problem that only the best clans then "will get Tiger-tanks".

25 oak vs 5 liveoak is hardly what we are talking about. Rather 24 oak and 1 liveoak vs 13 oak and 12 liveoak.

The influential clans will get the liveaoak. The less not. And there will be a gap between clans with and clans without rare woods (tiger tanks) and those without.

So how should we solve that. The less influential clans should be able to get liveoak too.

Edited March 16, 2019 by Ligatorswe

[StuntPotato]

8 minutes ago, Routan said:

Nope.

It is a war game. Not a gentlemens club. If you can’t handle to be the underdogs, Well change it. Fight them, avoid them, buy them ore join them. It is all up to you. As it should be on a war server.

It is a war game, and games should be fun, not second jobs.

[Zlatkowar]

49 minutes ago, Routan said:

Nope.

It is a war game. Not a gentlemens club. If you can’t handle to be the underdogs, Well change it. Fight them, avoid them, buy them ore join them. It is all up to you. As it should be on a war server.

From your latest posts I see you really like to impose your vision onto others, and not only that. There is not one thing on earth that has only one way of succeeding at it. You can be a worthy opponent, a feared opponent, yet without being a total scumbag. This is up to your personal choice (and capabilities, of course). Have fun.

[Israel Hands]

16 hours ago, Routan said:

It actually does. You don’t win a war in one battle. Numbers gives you multi flip. 

But do we take the single PB. The answer is yes and no.

You are right they proberbly will win in better ships. But your goal is not to win, but to to kill there expensive ships. So it might take 5, 10 ore 20 pb’s. But in the end they will break. 

War is won on who can replace there loses best, and keep the moral up and keep fighting. 

Just look at the game.Gb had some setback and roled over, where are they now?

 

It actually doesn't - how many PBs have you been in? - It doesn't matter how many ports you flip if you're the only one losing ship.. A fleet of oak/oak ships agains a fleet of LO/WO ships, with captains of equal skills, will be a roflstomp in favor of the LO/WO builds - and no, no LO/WO ship would be lost in that contest due to the unbalanced woods and teamwork. Add then that no experienced captain would be stupid enough to go into battle in a oak/oak ship and you basically will experience two things on the server:

1: One or two fleets will sealclub every other nation and those nations will have no meaningfull way to reply. This will make numbers plummet and in the end kill the game. We're actually already witnessing this in a bit smaller scale. The two fleets will btw be too intimidated by eachother that they won't wage war against one another, but rather keep roflstomping the smaller nations due to the risk of losing precious ships.

2: No one leaves port in fear of losing their precious ships - and we've already tested this shit before..

It's not new, we've already tried it before and it had the very effects that I've just listed.

And for the record - GB didn't 'rise' from adversity, GB had 1 clan, not even a large one, join up with the right gear, the right know-how and to the rest of GBs players shame - the balls to actually go into a PB. looking at numbers alone GB should be a dominant force on the server, but yet are still too much of a bunch of girls to go against fx. Russia in a regular PB.

[StuntPotato]

16 hours ago, admin said:

I think you are listening to the wrong people. Who do not want you to sail a first rate.
Insane? Please calculate the resource cost of the 1st rate oak/oak Victory. Only then comment on the cost.

Oak oak is not wanted by many - but they are making a mistake some nations did in ww2.
To cap ports you need numbers - not quality.
After you get numbers you get quality.

Tiger tank was better and more expensive. But 1 tiger did not matter against 50 shermans or t-34s.
Think about it. 

Oak oak victory is still better than any other lower level ship +++. 50 oak oak victories is better than 5 live oak ones. 5 live oak victories do not have a single chance against 25 ships + 25 screen. Oak oak 1st rate is incredibly cheap.
Its all in the game

To Field 50 ships, you need 50 players, the real resource in this game, and player retention is horrible. Please focus your development on that.

[Israel Hands]

1 hour ago, Routan said:

Nope.

It is a war game. Not a gentlemens club. If you can’t handle to be the underdogs, Well change it. Fight them, avoid them, buy them ore join them. It is all up to you. As it should be on a war server.

Everything you've written has convinced me that you haven't been in a single 1v1 PvP match or PB for that matter. Try to speak of stuff you actually understands rather than blatter your mouth about issues you haven't experienced.

[Sea Archer]

When you do not find crafting mats on traders anymore, there less readon to cap them.

I remember a post where admin asked why we should want to cap traders. At least for me the reason is to get crafting material. Trade goods are nice to make money, but crafting mats are what we need to build ships.

Even if rare mats are really rare, all other mats for building oak ships should be capturable from ai.