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Patch 30: Combat and boarding feedback

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5 hours ago, Slim McSauce said:

Good argument for removing the gyro stabilization for aiming. It would take some real skill to hit a 400m. Not psuedo gunnery, some real rewarding gunnery to match the devastating DM. Actually I think this whole argument is centered around the cannon gyro, you guys are just dancing around the solution with things such as pen, range and whatever. Everything is using real world values EXCEPT for cannon aiming, well no shit there's your problem.

Okay...Longs may be too accurate when compared to History, but...

...dont forget, if you take away accuracy even for Longs, you make long range engagments impossible and we will end up ALL in brawl fights, in which Carros are the only choice :( 

So this would mean, Goodbye to all tactical diversity...be careful what you wish for :P 

 

No, i say make distinctive differences between different Gun types if something has to get changed at all:

1. LONGS:

BUFF accuracy and long range penetration but NERF overall damage as dimishing return

2. CARROS:

NERF penetration values AND accuracy above 100 - 150 meters alot, making Carros nearly impossible to penetrate anything above 250 meters

3. MEDIUMS:

NERF accuracy and penetration (especially above 500 meters) but BUFF overall damge !!! Place mediums in the middle between LONGS and CARROS with MUCH worser accuracy and penetration than LONGS but better damage (not like it is now that Longs and Mediums are very similar)

 

Effect:

We would end up with something like Rock, Paper, Scissor in which Longs dominate long range fights but lacks the punch at close range and Carros dominate Brawls...Mediums something in between !!!

Currently the Gun Types are too similar except that Carros outshine everything in damage but lacking massive dimishing returns

 

Edited by Sir Max Magic
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Suggestions.

Damage model:

 - Minor increase for armor values of some ships, especially Light frigates, to bring balance to the Force (Hint: Not the Hercules/Requin)

 - Crank up structure survivability across the board. 

Goal: Ships can survive (not sink) for longer periods of time and continue fighting. However, the loss of armor will result in higher crew casualties and more cannons knocked out. Could double this up with a tweak to crew casualty rate (soften the rate a little to account for changes). Shift importance to the ship's crew and cannons, over the ship's "hitpoints".

 

Additional (but probably more of wish list)

Cannons/Gunnery:

- Very minor reductions to accuracy of all cannons and shot-types. If possible, additional reduction to the accuracy of chain-shot for long guns.

- Introduce press-and-hold function to the "Single-fire"/"Range" button (Spacebar). Press-and-hold would function similar to the Fire button. While the Spacebar is held your guns will start to fire a normal volley, releasing the spacebar will cease fire. Good for "fire as they bare", while retaining the normal fire button for other circumstances.

  • As an aside: Introducing this could allow for additional rates of fire. Normal "Fire" could be a more rapid volley, while "Fire as they bare" could have a slightly reduced, or "normal" fire rate. 

Repairs:

 - Hull repair  = armor repair only (moderate speed) (( Fills in large gaps in planking to provide some cover/protection, but not much. ))

  • If cannon replacement remains part of this repair, suggest to make it a % of the cannons lossed. Say, 50% of the lost cannons can be put back in action. To prevent excessive cannonball sponge.

 - Sail repair = In-battle: Each sail is removed individually, causing an initial reduction in speed (obviously with less reduction if the sail was already heavily damaged), before being replaced by a fresh sail. The speed of repair could be a decent rate, not faster than it is now, but each damaged sail must be replaced. 

  • Decrease accuracy of chain-shot.
  • Progressively more damage per hit as the sails become damaged. A healthy sail won't be as affected by the hole a 9pdr makes, but a sail with a hole is more likely to split as its integrity is compromised. Would be nice if, eventually, sails tear completely and become useless tatters that still have to be removed and replaced.

 

Boarding:

Instead of rounds, boarding combat is a constant action. 

Player who grapples is the Attacker, player who is grappled is the Defender. During combat, damage is performed at a constant rate dependent upon stats and modifiers. Boarding combat can be lengthy and is determined, chiefly, by crew morale. If not prepared, boarding combat is winnable but might be extremely costly for an attacker/rage-boarder.

Major stats: Crew size, Crew Morale, Attacker, Defender

Minor stats: Ship size, Marines, Weapons?, Training/Books

During boarding you can devote more or less crew to certain roles: More sword and pike, more muskets/sharpshooters(capped by number of muskets on ship), more gunners for cannons (capped by maximum cannon crew), more crew to rigging (capped at max. rigging crew). Crew shift time is used for this mechanic.

Roles: All roles are affected by modifiers (Morale, ship size, etc.) 

Sword and Pike = Primary combat. Crew and morale damage is determined mostly by the balance of attacker vs defenders melee infantry. If these forces are balanced, standard damage will be applied. Any imbalance will quickly start to erode the morale and fighting strength of the opposing side causing a cascade effect. If you only have enough crew for one job, this is where they should be sent, otherwise the ship will be overrun and captured.

Muskets/Sharpshooters = Secondary combat. Captain can focus their fire on opposing sharpshooters, gunners, melee, or rigging (risk hitting friendlies with melee and rigging). Musket kills are crew losses more than morale hits, but will eventually affect the final outcome of the battle if they are left unchecked. 

Gunners = Tertiary combat, player controlled broadsides. Able to "Stop reload" for different sides of the ship to limit max crew and focus them on the boarding action.

Rigging = Grappling/Minor combat. In order to START a disengage, you must outmatch your opponent's rigging crew by (enter reasonable # here)%. Think of this as upper Yardsmen tying the ships together vs crew working to free the ship.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Rook

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18 minutes ago, Rook said:

Would be nice if, eventually, sails tear completely and become useless tatters that still have to be removed and replaced.

We found this to be not true. 
The damaged sail retains a good amount of driving power even if teared completely. (in game this parameter is set at 30%) 
Not only that. Rig itself with NO SAILS and/or hull with no rig has a lot of driving power and leeway power that it alone can move the ship to the side in very strong wind (but without direction of course). 

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45 minutes ago, Rook said:

Decrease accuracy of chain-shot

Chain is already nerfed to an all time low. It's only 4 broadsides vs as many sail repairs as you want. It's so easy to angle yards and hide sail area. Chains also have a huge range damage drop-off so it's either that or lower accuracy. 

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1 hour ago, admin said:

We found this to be not true. 
The damaged sail retains a good amount of driving power even if teared completely. (in game this parameter is set at 30%) 
Not only that. Rig itself with NO SAILS and/or hull with no rig has a lot of driving power and leeway power that it alone can move the ship to the side in very strong wind (but without direction of course). 

Right o. Can you comment on this one?

1 hour ago, Rook said:

- Introduce press-and-hold function to the "Single-fire"/"Range" button (Spacebar). Press-and-hold would function similar to the Fire button. While the Spacebar is held your guns will start to fire a normal volley, releasing the spacebar will cease fire. Good for "fire as they bare", while retaining the normal fire button for other circumstances.

Any hope for additional gunnery controls?

o7

Edited by Rook

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52 minutes ago, Wraith said:

And honestly, why bother with chain when a single well-timed broadside of carros will take at least one mast? :P 

Depends on the ship in all fairness. It was also the case before the patch. Dismasting has not changed much to be fair. Bigger ships can dismast small ones faster but equal ships are the same. 

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How are the combat medals working now? 

I made some PvP and won from times to times, being granted of some 100 doubloons and points in the PvP leaderboard. But I never received a single combat medal...

Are these rewards granted in the dedicated patrol area only?

Edited by Eleazar de Damas

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On 3/4/2019 at 5:12 PM, Mr. Doran said:

What balances out the potency of raking fire when it is actually deadly is the relative difficulty of doing it compared to hull bashing. It is much harder to fight for the position necessary to  perform a rake than it is to force a pass on the enemy's broadside.

I wish old tutorial were still available but the new one is there. That is not exactly PvP situation but takes us to the right direction.

Test it. You will see that hull bashing is the most difficult way to win. You can wait that devs make it easier. You will see that admin by purpose makes it so that with tricks it is easy to win. The previous tutorial was made so that with tricks every nub was able to do it. The same nubs were not able to do it with hull bashing.

So far admin has probably never evaluated how much skill it needs and base effectiviness on somewhat around that. Ships were even more agile than now. Cannons are really accurate.

Masts for example. There has been always players who win multiple enemies by dismasting and boarding. Because by purpose this was made so damn easy. If you don't have the gear or didn't know that this was defined to be the fotm, sucks to be you.

How can you hide your masts? How can you defend your masts with skill? There are maybe some very minor things you can do but pretty much nothing that you can do. Except one lazy way called gear. Gear or repair kits seem to be the answer to all broken combat features.

It is not about balanced options in combat, it is more like what admin thinks is going to be the meta for today. The combat model was in much better balance but the predefined metas has pretty much destroyed it. admins way is more like how efficient different things should be in his opinion, instead of trying to find balance.

 

@admin I am also really sorry to say that. I am not sure if you ever even wanted to balance the game and give us good PvP. I have no idea if you ever wanted to have another tournament or esports. Examples?

If you actually and honestly try to find balance and then you introduce Kirimati masts and Poods? How can you even remotely think that you can find a balance with these?

Repair kits? When one players has kits and another does not, how can you balance this? Oh, it was never meant to be in balance, you lose if you don't have kits? You have enough space to take kits for one even fight or go ganking.

Don't take it on just these two, it is full of your FOTM.

 

@Mr. Doran Admin pretty much indirectly kicked PvP players out by saying that this game is not for them. That is his final answer. After that the circus has been going on.

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6 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

Depends on the ship in all fairness. It was also the case before the patch. Dismasting has not changed much to be fair. Bigger ships can dismast small ones faster but equal ships are the same. 

with the exception that you can land a well timed rake and gut all of the structure on a healthy ship to speeds like being at 50% sails, with ball with one rake against a comparable ship.

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On 2/28/2019 at 11:39 AM, admin said:

Rewards for participation will be provided in form of redeemables next week (4th-8th March). 
Everyone who accumulated 25 kills (including 5 boarding wins) will receive a rare ship Santa Cecilia and 5 paint chests.

At some point I understood that this would come along with economy wipe. Any news on this part?

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4 hours ago, Eleazar de Damas said:

How are the combat medals working now? 

I made some PvP and won from times to times, being granted of some 100 doubloons and points in the PvP leaderboard. But I never received a single combat medal...

Are these rewards granted in the dedicated patrol area only?

you need to accept the pvp missions first

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11 minutes ago, rediii said:

you need to accept the pvp missions first

Thanks @rediii

@admin So we have to resign the PVE missions we took before (most of them uncompleted because this is a long term accomplishment), to have room to take these PvP ones (I guess very specific for the ship type, rate or location), keeping in mind that some room could be required for hostility missions?...

I know that this game is still in development and that every thing will be wiped far before all missions will be completed, but this very discouraging and denying value to tester activity... I am normally always positive, and don't post negative messages, but here is a point were disappointment overreaches my patience capability.

I really don't known if I'll test that...

Edited by Eleazar de Damas
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Bellona vs Indiaman

I raked Indiaman 3 times down to 10% structure, shot his masts 50 times within 100-250 meters and he never lost any mast sailing with no sides and 10% structure. He had heavy rig and kirimati, for me demasting is broken in NA. You never know if you pen and the instant rig repair bringing mast HP back to 100% etc. It ruins the combat.

Also, the 3 years never fixed bug "Boarding Possible Press G" when you can spam it 1000 times for 10 minutes and nothing will happen.

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Or we should need dedicated slots to PVE missions, dedicated slots to PvP missions, and dedicated slots to hostility missions...

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3 hours ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

 

How can you hide your masts? How can you defend your masts with skill? There are maybe some very minor things you can do but pretty much nothing that you can do. Except one lazy way called gear. Gear or repair kits seem to be the answer to all broken combat features.

 

If demasting was limited to very close range IE 50-75 meters for most frigates you would be able to defend your mast with sailing and sailing alone. If you do not enter demasting range you will not be demasted. In order to make such an implementation a reality gear needs to be addressed. The current gear situation around masts is lunacy and no high-skill cap model for demasting can be had with it. 

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2 hours ago, Rabman said:

with the exception that you can land a well timed rake and gut all of the structure on a healthy ship to speeds like being at 50% sails, with ball with one rake against a comparable ship.

We were talking about thickness and mast penitration above structure. 

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Shooting in boarding is broken, my carro ship shot balls into the air instead of the enemy ship, his guns shot my side. You can't adjust level, should be auto-set to minimum height aiming.

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Just now, Banished Privateer said:

Shooting in boarding is broken, my carro ship shot balls into the air instead of the enemy ship, his guns shot my side. You can't adjust level, should be auto-set to minimum height aiming.

It should be auto aim.  Why wouldn't your crew point their guns at the enemy ship (if they can bear)?

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8 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said:

Shooting in boarding is broken, my carro ship shot balls into the air instead of the enemy ship, his guns shot my side. You can't adjust level, should be auto-set to minimum height aiming.

 

7 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

It should be auto aim.  Why wouldn't your crew point their guns at the enemy ship (if they can bear)?

time to fix it :P

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There is a problem with the interface during boarding now.

If the boarding screen is up and i press "M" to get the map for fleet orders, the map is behind the boarding interface, it is zoomed out to max and my ship, the opponent and my fleet are in the bottom right and out of sight...

Pls fix this:

if "M" is pressed, map should be on top, centered around my ship and zoomed in.

Thx 

(I'll try and add a screenshot)

2F1270B941ED665143755EEFCE961CAC492D4B9F

Edited by Jan van Santen

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9 hours ago, TR_TURKSS said:

Why did you make the Hercules ship so weak? The ship is sinking on 1 2 strokes, so why have we paid that ship?

hercules is not weak. its carronades that are strong

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I think little ships in general just need a HP buff. They all seem to just kill each other very quickly due to small ships putting out more damage for their size.

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9 hours ago, TR_TURKSS said:

Why did you make the Hercules ship so weak? The ship is sinking on 1 2 strokes, so why have we paid that ship?

What are you fighting that sinking you so fast?  Maybe stop trying to rank shots and go for distance fighting

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29 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

What are you fighting that sinking you so fast?  Maybe stop trying to rank shots and go for distance fighting

I had a battle at Nassau Solo Zone. 

Herc vs Herc

Both ships alined for perfect broadside start of the battle. Both carro (of course), other ship was unable to put a good broadside. I placed a perfect broadside on him, his all side armour gone, reload shocked. I immediatly turn into him get closer to use my opposite broadside. Another perfect broadside. He is sinking, gg, o7. 

Timer on battle 1:28:15, he is done. He was fir build against my teak, he had carta. I doubt it would change if he was teak. 

It is good Herc is glass cannon now, no more OP. A bit more nerf to what was needed. 

Reference ships, 

Herc 2850 side hp

Suprise 3875 side hp

Cerberus 3605 side hp

I feel overall buff to light frigate hitpoints needed, so battle not over in 3-4 broadsides. 

Now interesting part, 

Niagra 2960

H.Rattle 2637

Le Requin 2841 (plus enormous carro power, becomes a Le Required one more time!) 

Prince 2296

Snow 2261 

*** Very sad to see snow and prince being to weak. 

Prince used to be, only "not paywalled" counter to Le Requin. But not anymore. 

Qestion:

As a owner of Le Required. Stongest 6th rate of this patch among 6th rates. Has more than Double carronade firepower to other 6th rates excluding Niagra, has double crew numbers to almost all 6th rates. 

Why would I use any other 6th rate ship in 6th rate SOLO PVP Zone? 

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