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Patch 30: Combat and boarding feedback

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7 hours ago, Angus MacDuff said:

That was the point of the new model.  A Connie should not be able to survive near a 1st rate.

Agreed with connie and 1st but you should not be able to sink equal ship in 3-5 broadsides.  Trafalgar lasted hours with ships pounding each other point blank...  Solution is to seriously up 1st rate hit points etc. and other ships.  This is where things are not balanced.  The example cited for the new damage model had the other ship strikes it colours after 3 broadsides.  Striking colours is not the same as sinking.  Also, although the game tries to be somewhat realistic it is a game and the prime criteria should be fun not an quick arcade combat.  Leave that to WOW etc.

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Determined Defender - possible bug 

 

I was in a battle today and pretty much was whipped having lost my main mast in one broadside so the guy came over and appeared to try to board me.  I saw what appeared to be a pulling action then I saw a yellow report stopped by determined defender.

The thing is I did not have that Perk.  I carried it once but not at that time.   Did his determined defender perk stop him or did the tag just not change when I changed my perks?

Edited by angriff
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17 hours ago, RKY said:

You are just terribad and need to learn how to play. You are blaming everything but your poor captainship.

Ask yourself how come some players manage to get so many kills with a single ship in a single battle on equivalent ship to their foes.

And AI aint that much of a deal. You must be one of those complaining about final exam being "IMPOSSIBLE" to complete while some others can still finish it under 20min.

I think you're reaching there. I've sailed with @TheLoneWolf before, and he is certainly not "terribad" or in need of "learning how to play." Lone Wolf has the skill needed to play Naval Action competitively in PvP.

How to get many kills with the same ship? Fight noobs. Thats how I did it on the old damage model. Thats how some friends and I won a 4v17 when we were in 3rd rates and the enemy was in 1st-5th rates. See the great thing about fighting less-skilled players is that that tactic works no matter what combat model we have :D.

Normal AI isn't bad. But have you tried the buffed mission AI recently? The same ones that spawn in epic events? They're quite powerful. Certainly not impossible to take on, but far more challenging than they should be.

 

So I'll state it again: please go back to the old damage model, it worked much better.

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9 hours ago, William Death said:

How to get many kills with the same ship? Fight noobs. Thats how I did it on the old damage model.

You proved my point. It is time for you to assume you are noob before complaining about mechanics.

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17 hours ago, TheLoneWolf said:

Agreed with connie and 1st but you should not be able to sink equal ship in 3-5 broadsides.  Trafalgar lasted hours with ships pounding each other point blank...

Comparisons with IRL battles are quite irrelevant. IG speed is greatly increased, else we'd fall asleep, and I would not want to reach the point where the crew surrenders based on morale, casualties and eventually captain's leadership after one single broadside. That would be terrible.

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2 hours ago, RKY said:

You proved my point. It is time for you to assume you are noob before complaining about mechanics.

Mechanics change ----> skilled players state that mechanic changes are bad, provide feedback on how to fix them ----> said players are obviously noobs because they complain.

That, captain, is infallible logic! 

 

I'm beginning to think the other way, actually. In what reality is it good for the game that ships are obliterated in just a few broadsides by the same class ship? What kind of reasoning is good that makes fir/fir speedfit SOLs kings of OW hunting instead of fast frigates and 4th rates (as it should be)? How can the new damage model be considered good if you remember the good days of Naval Action when battles were won and lost by positioning, well-timed broadsides, and perfectly executed maneuvers?

Now you just get in a bigger ship than your enemy and shoot hull till one of the HP bars is gone. Battles are often determined before they start, and they're over quickly if one side has even a small advantage in firepower or HP numbers. Coincidentally, this is very good for those *ahem* less-skilled players who couldn't hack it with the previous damage models. Perhaps there is correlation to the fact that most of those players are the same ones who are enamored with the new damage model? :unsure:

So, who is really the noob? The ones who point out issues with the combat model that shouldn't be there, and suggests ideas to correct those issues, or the players who say "git gud and adapt you noob."

I'm sure we can "adapt" to the new damage model. Doesn't mean its better than the old one. I've adapted to the new port UI, but I still hate it. I've also adapted to all the various metas that have arisen over the years, but that doesn't mean they should be here. 

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@William Death

I do ask you to try this current damage model again. Literally every battle I have been in has not been as bad as you say, in fact I like how it is to a certain degree. I have done both deep water and shallow water and either different rates along with fighting both smaller and larger.

I think we are still looking at outliers and thinking it is the norm when it is not.

I only had 2 battles before carro damage was nerfed that lasted less than 5 minutes. Every other battle has been significantly average of what it was like before.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Teutonic said:

@William Death

I do ask you to try this current damage model again. Literally every battle I have been in has not been as bad as you say, in fact I like how it is to a certain degree. I have done both deep water and shallow water and either different rates along with fighting both smaller and larger.

I think we are still looking at outliers and thinking it is the norm when it is not.

I only had 2 battles before carro damage was nerfed that lasted less than 5 minutes. Every other battle has been significantly average of what it was like before.

 

 

Oh I am trying it still. I'm drifting about now, looking for action that is not in the gank patrol zone or shallow water bumper boats. Just ganked a player in a Christian, all players involved lamented damage model and the kinds of engagements it encourages.

As I said, I can adapt to it. Fighting similar rate ships, even, its not that bad. But with even a bit of a caliber difference, ships melt far too quickly. 

So yes, I can adapt to it. I can adapt to it the same way that a person adapts to a broken finger while it heals. But I don't like it, and its not good for the game as a whole when decent ships and mods are ridiculously expensive and hard to replace, but get lost in a couple minutes because "REALISM! You can't sail your frigate past my SOL! Git gud!"

 

Better to revert to the old damage model that worked well, just tweak it some. Limit repairs, adjust the HP values on certain ships (*cough* Hercules, Victory, Wapen), and implement a radius of musket fire that causes crew to tick down if you enter it (to reduce hugging tactics, which I understand was one of the goals of the patch). 

 

But what do I know about Naval Action, I'm a noob. :P

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The skill I see,

a) Kiting skill for 1 hour 30 minutes in more than average speed big ships.

b) Repair mods meta. Stack northern master carpenters and 2 other repair mods. Unlimited repairs and now with reduced weight! 

c) Use gold or purple ships, so 1-2 slots more to put op upgrades.

d) just keep kiting and repairing, slap smaller ships catching up.

e) in the process kill inexperienced captains. Brag about how good and godly you are, how noob remaining are...

*** We all know, 1 vs 1 duel in 1st rates of good captains, is unlikely finish in 1.30 hours, due to repair system.

Show me same skills with 3 set of repairs allowed  in one battle.

Show me same skills when repair timer is much longer.

This is killing the game, please limit repairs in battle instance, let real and tactical skill shine.

 

 

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I like the new damage model in the way guns do damage. Still the ships should be more durable and dismasting should be harder. The battles are too short in my opinion. 

After playing the game with the new model, I would still prefer to have no structural damage (which causes sinking), but just leaks that can only be partly fixed, so that more and more crew is required to keep the ship afloat. While damage above the waterline will only kill crew, cannons and masts.

I think that would somehow be more realistic

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I got now used to new damage system and I like it a lot.

Also very good are the missions with gold chests who draw players near enemy towns in search of targets.

Well done so far ... +1+1+1

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There is an easy way to exploit the current ROE with cross nation groups by just joining the opposite side and increasing the BR so your friends of the other nation can join the opposite side.

Tested it in following battle and reported via F11:

unknown.png?width=1207&height=755

(No Pirates were harmed in the production of this image)

Edited by Henry Durnin
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10 hours ago, NOJODU said:

Please make boarding stances dynamic (instead of static) with a warm-up timer of a few seconds. Initial stance effective should be really low (25% or 50% maybe to start with?) and should increase to 100% over few seconds (3, 4 or 5 if you ask me).

This is what I purposed long time ago. But ! after my post he came up with hiding commands ! I feel responsible, I could not make him understand this warm up feature.

just example;

ATTACK needs 7 seconds to charge to full power 

MUSKETS needs 4 seconds etc.

Now we have the newbie rage quit mechanic instead which is hidden commands.

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As the main topic is locked now, just one last word about game mechanics:

I am a long term casual player and I have seen many different directions this game has taken over the long run of development. As it is now, I see a big problem for small ships.

In short term usage all small ships have their own right & reason to exist, because you need them to level up. In long term usage they are quite useless now. All ship models were made with love & passion, so they deserve to have a certain place in game also in long term playing.

Long term playing as it is now means to get a ship towards to upper tier (2nd to 1st rate) equip it with powerful upgrades and then gank all other people which have smaller ships. Ganking is easy because big ships can be made faster than small ones. Frigates in history were always necessary and important support ships. In NA they are not worth a penny now. This is a pity.

I persoanlly love the corvettes & frigates more than line ships. I would wish that the game provides a meaningful way to use them in the game and that the game forces not all players to be in line ships. At least now I don't see this way -- not at all.

What makes this even worse is the fact that new players have to go to foreign waters now if they want to collect chests. So they are forced to enter enemy waters and experienced players only have to wait there in their 3rd / 2nd /1st rates to gank them. This seems to be very unbalanced.

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2 minutes ago, mikawa said:

As the main topic is locked now, just one last word about game mechanics:

I am a long term casual player and I have seen many different directions this game has taken over the long run of development. As it is now, I see a big problem for small ships.

In short term usage all small ships have their own right & reason to exist, because you need them to level up. In long term usage they are quite useless now. All ship models were made with love & passion, so they deserve to have a certain place in game also in long term playing.

Long term playing as it is now means to get a ship towards to upper tier (2nd to 1st rate) equip it with powerful upgrades and then gank all other people which have smaller ships. Ganking is easy because big ships can be made faster than small ones. Frigates in history were always necessary and important support ships. In NA they are not worth a penny now. This is a pity.

I persoanlly love the corvettes & frigates more than line ships. I would wish that the game provides a meaningful way to use them in the game and that the game forces not all players to be in line ships. At least now I don't see this way -- not at all.

What makes this even worse is the fact that new players have to go to foreign waters now if they want to collect chests. So they are forced to enter enemy waters and experienced players only have to wait there in their 3rd / 2nd /1st rates to gank them. This seems to be very unbalanced.

The @admin said they will look into SoL Spees. all we need is a Speed-Nerf for SoL. If they are not able to catch Frigates and are slower in OW, we woud be good to go.

-6th for shallow Waters

-5th Rates for most OW activies (Traderhunting, OW PvP, Raid's into enemy Water, Supporting Sol)

-4th - 1st SoL PB, Siegeing Enemy Ports and C-Zones, big Battles, Screening

 

 

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I honestly do like the carro changes to 4th rates.

But I strongly believe that it won't change that the inger and wapen are still weak. Their main issue is their low hitpoints, both need an increase of 300-750hps.

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18 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

I honestly do like the carro changes to 4th rates.

But I strongly believe that it won't change that the inger and wapen are still weak. Their main issue is their low hitpoints, both need an increase of 300-750hps.

Every ship cant be monsters

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47 minutes ago, HoneyBaddger said:

Every ship cant be monsters

If we are serious about making permit ships "stronger" then the 4th rates are the opposite of this mindset.

In a balanced meta every ship would have a use, currently a few ships have some niches uses and the rest are just "use X because it's better than Y and Z." That's poor balancing.

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4 hours ago, Teutonic said:

In a balanced meta every ship would have a use, currently a few ships have some niches uses and the rest are just "use X because it's better than Y and Z." That's poor balancing.

We’re not there yet... I don’t even know if the Devs are trying to get there... but the “balance” could also be achieved by X is more powerful than Y and Z but Z is easy to obtain and Y costs half of what X does to operate.

I still think the ultimate best solution would be line ships are difficult to get or build, but there is a clear path to do it — Not random. However, once you have a line ship, it’s not just the risk of losing it that is the cost but that it actually takes an investment to sail it. I’m taking about docking fees based on ship size/power with a percentage of the fees paid to port owner. Take your line ship out for free, but to bring it into a port costs reals. You save money if you sink. Lol

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26 minutes ago, Michael Corvinus said:

Here you go fan boy, if you bothered to look at the exciting times ahead posts. "We understand that it causes a lot of inconvenience to a lot of you. We arranging with valve to add the Early Access bonus ship Pandora to all early access buyers as Free DLC that will be redeemable once every 24 hours. It will take time but will definitely happen in March."

 

We are reqiured to give first warnings in public

DLC ships depend on approval from Valve (you are buying the game and all its content from Valve not game labs). Maybe approval is still not given

You were asked a simple unprovoking question and started name calling fanboy. If this continue you posting right will be deleted.  Rules applied - Rule 1 respectful conversation, Rule 2 Rants not allowed. 
 

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Quote
  • Patrol rewards updated (and slightly increased)

I was so much hoping that the patrol rewards update had something to do with reducing the damage threshold for each tier, in particular for shallow patrols, but I see that you've only reduced rewards, while admiralty upgrades prices (such as strong bow and stern) has gone from 3 CMs to 10. 

Image result for outstanding move

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Today I found out that during boarding I can still send the crew to different stations like guns and sails without influencing the boarding action. I think that during boarding every man, at least the full boarding crew, shoud be fighting and cannot be send to other stations, so that when boarding is interrupted it takes some time to bring the ship back in the cannon fighting mode.

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Hotfix deployed April 5th

  • Fixed battles bug in protected capital waters that opened them to other nations
  • Tuned HP for many ships (almost all ships) most significant increases were applied to light ships so they are not so squishy against each other.
  • Bot upgrades rebalanced (turning greatly reduced/penetration slightly increased)
  • Navy Mast Bands are now 2x more expensive

 

 

sorry but General Feedbak is a locked thread so i write here.

please @adminreduce back the HP for many ships...we are now back to pre-patch situation where a 5th rate can easyly receive a 1st rate's full broadside without risking nothing...just losing an armor side, and 1 or 2 point of structure.   a 5th VS a 1st rates broadsides must be wiped to 0, MUST

please, thanks

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