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Patch 30: Combat and boarding feedback

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@admin will there be a change in the boarding game in future (before or after release)?  If the boarding game stays as it is, could we have at least a semi transparent boarding screen like we had before? 

Edited by Sir Loorkon
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About new ROE rule of reinforcing weakside for 20 minutes, it is such an abusable feature. Of course being abused by guys who are mostly into pvp ! 

I give you a nice example. Hey let's do 3 vs 3 battle ? Okay let's do it :) and battle starts your team with 3x1st rate and enemy joins with 2x1st rate plus a 2nd rate. When you beat them, they will say you were superior, you had 3x1st rate !, but why didn't they join with 3x1st rate as they could easly ???

REASON: cause if they fart up, they can call another mate during 20 minutes, so it becomes 3x1st against 3x1st and one 2nd, and do it when 20 minutes is about to end :) I can also exploit it, how? Just call a friend from another nation to join their side, bumm who is clever now ? (of course after 20 minutes timer is done, friend will say "oh enjoy your battle, I don't wanna distrupt your duel, I exit, bye")

 

The new boading game is only difficult for guys who have little experience in boarding. It is the same game for veterans except the boarding has changed much with latest genious upgrades to boarding. (redoubtable muskets/sea muskets)

@admin introducing the musket mods already made it difficult to engage boarding with a boarding equipped good pvper.

I got boarded by a Santi in my L'Ocean, I had five rings and shooting, he had more than 500 muskets on his ships against my 250 muskets. I brace to his musket, lost 50 plus, second or third round I lost the boarding game ! I had like 900 crew + 100 prep against his 1000 crew and + 65 prep. So I could not follow what happened really but game over in few rounds.  So everyhing like gunnery ency. + book of five + master carpenter + elite french is useless against redoubtable muskets+some additonal musket mods. This is for Line Ship combat. What kind of technology is redoubtable muskets ? How can it be so decisive in boading? Why did admin nerf normal muskets ? Would be nice instead of nerfing normal muskets adding more musket crew, they should prevent stacking Shooting with other musket mods, but they nerf the Shooting Book which is available to all players. For me these little things are frustrating as hell, because these little things add up and spoils all the gameplay.

Seeing these poor decisions I try to convience myself, it is time to move on as I have spent lots hours full of fun, and game starts to become more frustrating with every great addition. We mostly play games to have fun. These little additions should be experimental in a BETA, but somehow it takes 1 million posts, lots of time to change developers ideas and implemented super features. I see  them rolling back  %50 percent of "their great ideas which broke" what was perfectly working, but takes a long time and some battle.

The problem is, there is nobody actively testing the game from them, or they are testing intensively but they are equal level to most elite players so their understanding of the game is much different from remaining %90 percent of players. 

On the other hand good see some real content (port upgrades/shipyard upgrades) is about to come or some hopefuly rebalanced (group kill missions). Let's see what this game is going to be on the vision of @admin. I am looking forward to release of NA.

 

Edited by Aerospace
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I just want to point out that with repaurs now healing 300 hps per repair.

A unbonused repair (20% repair action) 6th rate, requin, and hercules only use 1-2 hull repairs per repair. A surprise with max 30% hp bonus uses 3.

Not sure if that is quite what we want buuut i guess we will see. 

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Quite happy with the repair update. It was quite crazy to go out at sea and burn through 300 repairs in no time... Feels so much better now. Very appreciated change.

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I like how the repairs are working... felt a little odd to me to have to use so many repairs to fix so little. At first I didn't realise the change had been made and I thought something was wrong... he he, it was an update. And a good one I think.

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7aac445265567e586b9f28fecda15db7.png

21 hours ago, Aerospace said:

About new ROE rule of reinforcing weakside for 20 minutes, it is such an abusable feature. Of course being abused by guys who are mostly into pvp ! 

Yep.......

Vote to show your discontent and disgust for this obviously broken idea.

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7 hours ago, Teutonic said:

I just want to point out that with repaurs now healing 300 hps per repair.

A unbonused repair (20% repair action) 6th rate, requin, and hercules only use 1-2 hull repairs per repair. A surprise with max 30% hp bonus uses 3.

Not sure if that is quite what we want buuut i guess we will see. 

I find it better but now tactical decisions on carrying what amount of repairs is gone !

I can put 18 repairs on Le Cancer and repair 9 times in a battle. So it became repair wars :( hope they limit amount of repairs to be used in battle instance which I do not think so...

This very evident in SOL battles, I lost an L'Ocean cause we fought 1:30 hours, and I was attacked second time exiting the battle, I did not have repairs but enemy had. Still feel like 3 sets of repairs is the way to go or at least increase repair cooldown to 15 minutes or more. But who gives a ****

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This patch has been done to avoid smaller ships destroying the bigger ones in an unhistorical manner. 

I like that and the impact those big guns have now. I still don't like the overpowered hercules. When I fight one in a frigate, I have hardly the chance to hit the enemy, the herc is outturning the frigate in a way that it is hardly possible to return her broadsides. At least when an experienced player handles her.

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As an addendum to my previous comment.

Before the patch I had a similar battle with a prince. I could hardly turn the ship to bring the guns to bear, but due to the lower firepower of the prince and it's lower structure, it was a much closer battle. The herc carries too heavy guns for her turnrate and is for those who bought the DLC easy to replace, so they don't have to be afraid of loosing it.

In that battle with the herc I was nearly sunk by stern rakes. The side armour was at about 75%, while the structure was at 20%.

That is somehow strange, too. I suggest that structure cannot be lower than the lowest side armour.

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15 hours ago, Sea Archer said:

In that battle with the herc I was nearly sunk by stern rakes. The side armour was at about 75%, while the structure was at 20%.

That is somehow strange, too. I suggest that structure cannot be lower than the lowest side armour.

Assuming that structure is protected by side armors first (front, back, left, right) it makes sense to get damage to structure when one of these sides falls to zero. So if stern is down and the person keeps shooting, I don't see why it should take side armor into account if your opponent keeps stern raking.

Is it possible that your visual understanding of HP bars is not entirely correct?

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56 minutes ago, Zlatkowar said:

Assuming that structure is protected by side armors first (front, back, left, right) it makes sense to get damage to structure when one of these sides falls to zero. So if stern is down and the person keeps shooting, I don't see why it should take side armor into account if your opponent keeps stern raking.

Is it possible that your visual understanding of HP bars is not entirely correct?

From the gaming point of view you are right. And I totally agree that bow or stern rake are very bad for crew and guns, maybe even for masts ( though I think demasting is too easy atm).

My understanding of sinking mechanics of a wooden ship is that either there are too many holes below the waterline or the seams between the planks open due to too many impacts on the planks.

When a ship is raked, the impacts are on the stern and the bow and everything in between, but not on parts vital for floating. The same should be considered for hits on the sides far above the waterline. 

If a ship recieves several deep hit at bow or stern it may sink, but not otherwise. Shots along the length of a ship might be more likely bouncing of the inner planking than destroying it  (because of the angle), so the structure won't be affected. 

 

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1 hour ago, Sea Archer said:

From the gaming point of view you are right. And I totally agree that bow or stern rake are very bad for crew and guns, maybe even for masts ( though I think demasting is too easy atm).

My understanding of sinking mechanics of a wooden ship is that either there are too many holes below the waterline or the seams between the planks open due to too many impacts on the planks.

When a ship is raked, the impacts are on the stern and the bow and everything in between, but not on parts vital for floating. The same should be considered for hits on the sides far above the waterline. 

If a ship recieves several deep hit at bow or stern it may sink, but not otherwise. Shots along the length of a ship might be more likely bouncing of the inner planking than destroying it  (because of the angle), so the structure won't be affected. 

 

 Enough fire from the stern or bow would take out internal support cross beams,  meaning that the support for sides/planking would be removed.  My best guess is that if enough of the  cross beam supports were destroyed it would cause sides to fold in on themselves or warp and split due to other pressures on hull from water pressure,  and the various weights/forces those cross beams aided in supporting.

  I can see what your saying but there would i think be valid reasons for catastrophic failure of the ships integrity if enough internal cross supports (17,14,19 in plan image) were taken out.

Cross-Section of a Wooden Sailing Ship.jpg

Edited by Dibbler

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2 minutes ago, Sea Archer said:

When a ship is raked, the impacts are on the stern and the bow and everything in between, but not on parts vital for floating. The same should be considered for hits on the sides far above the waterline. 

If a ship recieves several deep hit at bow or stern it may sink, but not otherwise. Shots along the length of a ship might be more likely bouncing of the inner planking than destroying it  (because of the angle), so the structure won't be affected. 

OK I get the idea. I was about to say that I have a hard time visualizing how forces apply on a hull of this size and how damage would affect such structure, but I must say that the explanation above looks quite good. If the structure loses too much stability, then I can see how leaks could appear even without taking damage under the waterline.

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Forget the science.  You can't apply it to this game.  RL wooden ships wouldn't have sunk from all the "above the water line" damage we do.  They rarely sank from gunfire damage, ever.

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It would be better if they would show some action from the decks,like a sailor coming aboard with ropes or ladders deployed ,the point and click just isn't very good and the calculating now is ,you don't know what is being done,i don't see the point in it . maybe have one guy in the back made of blocks that represents muskets and when all the blocks shot away/Random,then you know you have won the musket battle..I lost a battle to muskets while I was barricading ,I was in a herc or a navy brig vs a mercury ,and he rammed me and I f10 brace but I didn't see any damage on his part.and also another time I waited to see if I took crew damage from a ramming with no f10 ,nada..

 

Edited by MacaroniMax
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Just now, MacaroniMax said:

It would be better if they would show some action from the decks,like a sailor coming aboard with ropes or ladders deployed ,the point and click just isn't very good and the calculating now is ,you don't know what is being done,i don't see the point in it . maybe have one guy in the back made of blocks that represents muskets and when all the blocks shot away/Random,then you know you have won the musket battle..

I hate the rock, paper, scissors game of boarding.  It's pointless IMO.  I'd rather have it auto-decided based on all the factors involved.  Then we could have a nice little mini-movie of a boarding action with the winner announced upon completion. 

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5 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

I hate the rock, paper, scissors game of boarding.  It's pointless IMO.  I'd rather have it auto-decided based on all the factors involved.  Then we could have a nice little mini-movie of a boarding action with the winner announced upon completion. 

If it is auto-decided you would then have folks complain that they have too little control on overcoming the odds.

And a computer simulation of %chances to win/lose would feel infuriating for some.

I currently like how boarding is, there is still relevant information so you can expect what your opponent will do.

Crew, marines, firepower, and melee are all stats to look at and see what is coming.

Edited by Teutonic

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4 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

I hate the rock, paper, scissors game of boarding.  It's pointless IMO.  I'd rather have it auto-decided based on all the factors involved.  Then we could have a nice little mini-movie of a boarding action with the winner announced upon completion. 

yeah even 2d ranks would help ..im all about paper

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3 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

If it is auto-decided you would then have folks complain that they have too little control on overcoming the odds.

And a computer simulation of %chances to win/lose would feel infuriating for some.

I currently like how boarding is, there is still relevant information so you can expect what your opponent will do.

Crew, marines, firepower, and melee are all stats to look at and see what is coming.

I like that what he was doing vs me wasn't as predictable, but  the motion to make a counter action needs something ,I took a good whack with brace vs muskets ,even though brace was not well prepared on my part ,I guess maybe I need some tutoring

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19 minutes ago, MacaroniMax said:

It would be better if they would show some action from the decks,like a sailor coming aboard with ropes or ladders deployed ,the point and click just isn't very good and the calculating now is ,you don't know what is being done,i don't see the point in it . maybe have one guy in the back made of blocks that represents muskets and when all the blocks shot away/Random,then you know you have won the musket battle..I lost a battle to muskets while I was barricading ,I was in a herc or a navy brig vs a mercury ,and he rammed me and I f10 brace but I didn't see any damage on his part.and also another time I waited to see if I took crew damage from a ramming with no f10 ,nada..

It would be great indeed but I think that working on the animation part is quite time consuming. Unless they hire whoever did this for the job x'D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95k0fpZSVes

 

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On 3/14/2019 at 11:51 AM, Aerospace said:

About new ROE rule of reinforcing weakside for 20 minutes, it is such an abusable feature. Of course being abused by guys who are mostly into pvp ! 

I give you a nice example. Hey let's do 3 vs 3 battle ? Okay let's do it :) and battle starts your team with 3x1st rate and enemy joins with 2x1st rate plus a 2nd rate. When you beat them, they will say you were superior, you had 3x1st rate !, but why didn't they join with 3x1st rate as they could easly ???

REASON: cause if they fart up, they can call another mate during 20 minutes, so it becomes 3x1st against 3x1st and one 2nd, and do it when 20 minutes is about to end :) I can also exploit it, how? Just call a friend from another nation to join their side, bumm who is clever now ? (of course after 20 minutes timer is done, friend will say "oh enjoy your battle, I don't wanna distrupt your duel, I exit, bye")

only idiots and douchebags would use this method but i see your point

Edited by Wyy

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@Wyy I was kind of having a duel with this guy (he is also twitching and from a certain nation but just a luck, it is never important). My L'Ocean vs his pink Victory, we start fighting he tries to get behind me, stern rake me, he can not, he tries to demast me and he can not. So he starts kiting, I ask if he is running if the battle is over ? and he says no, and than silly me notice another ship is shooting from behind. Another Victory, his teammate just behind me. Yes I got a bit frustrated because I thought this PVP guy to be honest, as he is skilled he would not need this kind of shit. Unfortunately I learnt  that he was actualy  a duchebag, I was more angry to the developers "as they brought up this new stupid ROE". This shows me there will be no fair fights anymore. 

If you are an asshole do not forget to fight a guy with a higher BR, so you can rape him with your friend. Attack with fast Vic, just tag that Santi or L'Ocean kite, so your friend with fully boarding fast Santi can join and it is fun RIGHT ? Appy this to all ships, and yes you will have lot's of PVP but for a short time, enjoy that short orgasm and get flushed.

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1 hour ago, Aerospace said:

@Wyy I was kind of having a duel with this guy (he is also twitching and from a certain nation but just a luck, it is never important). My L'Ocean vs his pink Victory, we start fighting he tries to get behind me, stern rake me, he can not, he tries to demast me and he can not. So he starts kiting, I ask if he is running if the battle is over ? and he says no, and than silly me notice another ship is shooting from behind. Another Victory, his teammate just behind me. Yes I got a bit frustrated because I thought this PVP guy to be honest, as he is skilled he would not need this kind of shit. Unfortunately I learnt  that he was actualy  a duchebag, I was more angry to the developers "as they brought up this new stupid ROE". This shows me there will be no fair fights anymore. 

If you are an asshole do not forget to fight a guy with a higher BR, so you can rape him with your friend. Attack with fast Vic, just tag that Santi or L'Ocean kite, so your friend with fully boarding fast Santi can join and it is fun RIGHT ? Appy this to all ships, and yes you will have lot's of PVP but for a short time, enjoy that short orgasm and get flushed.

if we look at it this way, the Ingame clock goes 10 mins is 9 irl seconds (yes i've counted), so if you fought him for i would assume 10 mins which is not an exaggeration, that would be 10 ingame hours. This is why i would want battles to close and the ones in render distance are able to join from their exact position in OW. I made an suggestion about all of it aswel as what would happen after the battle but not a single word from admin while i got some good feedback on the suggestion by players. @admin

Edited by Wyy
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28 minutes ago, Wyy said:

if we look at it this way, the Ingame clock goes 10 mins is 9 irl seconds (yes i've counted), so if you fought him for i would assume 10 mins which is not an exaggeration, that would be 10 ingame hours. This is why i would want battles to close and the ones in render distance are able to join from their exact position in OW. I made an suggestion about all of it aswel as what would happen after the battle but not a single word from admin while i got some good feedback on the suggestion by players

I agree with you %100, that is also my logic.

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