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Exciting times ahead - pre-release wipes information

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2 hours ago, admin said:

DLC is yours until the music stops! Tutorial ranks will not remain - full xp reset will be applied on release. This decision was hard but it is best for the game. 

Only books/skill books will be recovered, as they were very hard to get. XP is easy to get if you pvp.

To be honest even after max level 5 chars and one mid level with all crafting 50 I can understand the reason for the change.   The books/ship knowledge was one of the hardest grinds as you can level over several times just leveling out SOL's.  I think we will bounce back from that very fast but one thing always bother me.  While we all get the Pandora for being part of EA, this really gifts the lazy too.  Maybe look at the players that maxed level or put in so many hours and give them something else on top of this.  Thus rewarding your actual folks that tested the game.  Maybe even do it with the stages to come.  If you play so much time or do a certain mission your get this reward that will have upon release.  Some of these rewards can be a rare paint that we only have, maybe one more bigger ship that we can get into later, but isn't a DLC (ship note of the SC for all that activitly tested or something).   Suprise us when the time comes and you might find a lot more happy folks.  Most other games had tier rewards for there founders/testers than just giving every one the same thing.

Going to suck having to level those chars up again, but I think I'll prob just let the be dead after putting in 9K hours on this game and over 500 dollars I don't think I have the heart to grind them all out again. I'll prob just have one or two as a main that I play with between other games like I'm pretty much doing now any way.

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I'm all for a full wipe and fully expected it from the start, it's standard for any early access game.

 

What is worrying is the lies, lack of information and how fast it's all taking place.

They should of been clear from day one of alpha access, then no one would have grounds to argue.

There is still a huge lack of information and they should be addressing peoples concerns..

 

Also for those of us wanting a wipe you also have to realise people put A LOT of hours into the game under the premise they would retain things like exp but haven't received as much as an apology for being misled.

 

"It's nothing personal jack, it's just bad business."

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We were promissed xp to be safe.. now it turns out to be a lie

We are now being promised that the DLCs are safe .. who knows.. maybe they're aren't really and will be turned in something else? Hmm? :)

How are we supposed to believe anything now?

Edited by John Sheppard
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8 minutes ago, Sovereign said:

I agree, putting everything on supposed new player after release is walking a very thin plank. Would be better to please and cherish as many as possible of what is left from long term testers first and go from there but as long as books remain untouched I won't quit - not over rank xp. That being said I completely understand people being frustrated by xp wipe, considering it was promised to not get wiped. I only don't care about rank xp wipe because I enjoy PvP and it let's you rank up fast and easily

I think the reason behind this is, that they don't want veterans roaming around in SOLs trashing new players with the new boosted damage only a week after release. 

The reward is the ship knowledge. I am very grateful to have that at least. We have enough of an advantage just with that in comparison to a new player. So much has changed since the majority of us have started playing. I had to rank up twice after switching nations pre-DLC years. It was a huge difference and was less of a headache second time around. Experience point wipe is needed for the potential new players. When I joined the biggest thing out in the waters was a 3rd rate. No one had yet ranked up far enough to spam 1st rates. Majority of players were in 5th rates and it was very enjoyable back then. I probably would never have played past the first day if I was coming across ships far out my class. I mean who would honestly want to play a game where you are the weakest person right at the start and is thrown right in the thick of it where everyone can curb stomp you with ease?

 

Also I just want to say on a separate note to everyone that called me hello kitty among other names for stating the Devs would wipe experience even if they made what was obviously a loose promise:

tenor.gif

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2 minutes ago, Velhelm Von Marrius said:

The reward is the ship knowledge. I am very grateful to have that at least. We have enough of an advantage just with that in comparison to a new player. So much has changed since the majority of us have started playing. I had to rank up twice after switching nations pre-DLC years. It was a huge difference and was less of a headache second time around. Experience point wipe is needed for the potential new players. When I joined the biggest thing out in the waters was a 3rd rate. No one had yet ranked up far enough to spam 1st rates. Majority of players were in 5th rates and it was very enjoyable back then. I probably would never have played past the first day if I was coming across ships far out my class. I mean who would honestly want to play a game where you are the weakest person right at the start and is thrown right in the thick of it where everyone can curb stomp you with ease?

 

Also I just want to say on a separate note to everyone that called me hello kitty among other names for stating the Devs would wipe experience even if they made what was obviously a loose promise:

tenor.gif

XP wipe you say to level they playing field for the new players?

But what about the new players that will come 1 ,2 , 5 ,10 weeks after release? Should we level the playing field for them too? Why should we do it for the players that will come the first week and not for the thousands (hopefully) others to follow later?

 

This is something i just can't understand and everyone seems to miss

Edited by John Sheppard
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3 minutes ago, John Sheppard said:

XP wipe you say to level they playing field for the new players?

This is something i just can't understand and everyone seems to miss

You are missing the fact that it is not a level playing field even after the wipe. Ship Knowledge is such a significant factor and we get to keep it.

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2 hours ago, Wraith said:

Perhaps if you did the hard work of providing them truly safe, no-PvP zones instead of allowing the "safe" zone ganking to proceed unchecked we wouldn't have to wring our hands over this?  And an alternative viewpoint might be that logging in and seeing vets in first rates inspires admiration and a will to succeed. That seems like the truly "hardcore" experience you're after anyway right?  Aren't we all hardcore players?

In any case, I never really cared whether you wipe or not, but since you had literally "promised" it, I've quoted your statement about no xp/crafting xp wipe enough times to new players and people who were considering buying the game but were nervous about Early Access, etc. that now I feel like I've misled them.  That's a very precarious position to put a lot of players in who are sharpening up their Steam reviews as you hurtle towards a pre-emptive launch.

 

1 hour ago, John Sheppard said:

@admin

 

We are disscussing this on TS and Discord now 

You should know that a lot of the old players are pissed off more than you can possibly imagine and if it comes to it they-we are even prepared to retaliate on purpose

I mean farm the new players extensively to force them to quit and give negative reviews .. just letting you know how bad this can turn out.. i don't think it would be in the best interest of the game

EDIT: just to make sure ... this is not my suggestion 

@admin both these brought up a very good point.  Unless you fix these zones your going to have even more folks that stop playing this game before they get out of cutters cause the first weeks all your going to see are vets camping Capitals farming folks that are just trying to level up.  Not every one wants to PvP 24/7.    You really need to think about fixing these issues and taking away zones like you stated recently.  They shouldn't be removed but made more safer for new players and casuals to grind and level up in.

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Everyone keeps saying that admin lied.  English is not everyone's first language on here, but, let me clear something up real quick:

Quote

 

lie

1: to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive

 

Emphasis added.

There was no lie.  There was no intent to deceive.  You cannot lie about there not being an XP wipe if you did not know about it yourself.  There was a reevaluation, and some people will be upset about that.  However, now that I've cleared that up, any post going forward accusing admin of lying about the wipe will be dismissed out of hand.  Talk about why it frustrates you.  Talk about what you think the impact of the decision will be.  However, accusing him of lying is simply false and non-productive.

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@admin     So next week we get an Econ 'reset'.       What exactly does this mean?   Will they be wiped to 0?   

 

What assets exactly?      Reals?   Dubloons?   Woods?  components for upgrades?  upgrades?     

Just want a bit more clarification please  :)

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Personally i'm happy that skill books have remained, they are the pain in the ass to get again.

Xp doesn't take so long, although opening slots on ships again takes time but is same for all.

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1 hour ago, John Sheppard said:

In which case a lot of the old players are determined to take this game down with them sad but true and it will happen. The people who said those things don't take what they say lightly


Maybe a little extreme but true for some of them this has become their life . Some of us spent more time in this game than real life. Pls don't start preaching from your moral high ground (angus and PG and the rest fo you) that this is wrong we don't care to hear your hypocritcal idiologies. We all know that if you put a lot of effort into something finish building it look at it and see how nice you made it , then someone comes smashes it to bits and laughs at you , telling you to build it again from beginning (for the 2nd time) , that person would be in a VERY VERY bad trouble .

Devs will be able identify above players very quickly and take appropriate action. And good riddance, lol

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Just now, Powderhorn said:

From a place of low information, those assumptions might be made.  However, your reality is not all-encompassing.  You cannot assume that you know best, simply because it is convenient for your agenda to do so.

I'm sorry? Assuming i know best?

Logic can't be bent whichever way you like

Answer me this PLEASE 

What happenes to the NEW players that join after 1 month or later? Why would they be any different and why it's fair for those players to see everyone else max rank in big ships killing them all the time? What's the difference between those players and the ones just after the release?

Can one of you big supporters answer this question to me? Use your Logic

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1 minute ago, Draymoor said:

Trying to get off on technicalities, the way of the absolutely guilty of hello kittyery. 

This is not "getting off on a technicality."  This is simply explaining how language works.  I don't mind that people are upset.  Most of those posts can stand.  However, I will not allow this propagandistic redefinition of a word to stand simply so players can abuse it and feel like they have some moral high ground.

People are upset about a wipe.  Fair enough.  They should explain why.  If that sways the developers, fair enough.  If it does not, fair enough.

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1 hour ago, John Sheppard said:

No offence but something's telling me you haven't played much before the big wipe 

let me explain why we seem so damn angry . It's coz some of us had to do the same thing twice or even 3 times and it gets really annoying

Basicly before the big wipe it went like this :

Old plaers : Fu.k this i'm not playing what's the point to grind and then be reset basicly wasting my time? I'll come back on release when i know that what i do from that point onwards won't be wasted

(read what liam said above "When can i next play where my progress will actually count and remain indefinitely?" )

Admin : Noooo come back this is the last wipe i promsie

Old players : really?

Admin: Suuuree there will be simple economy wipes only but XP is guaranteed to be safe

Old Players : ok then let's give it a go

 

Also .. what change are you talking about it? there's not talk of any change just reset the clock from the start .. same all over again

Well you'd be quite wrong about my playing time. I've been here for some time, American, British, French, Pirate. Two accounts totaling 1400 hours. Plus most of the DLC. I've owned almost every ship and sailed the length and breadth of the map. I currently have tens of thousands of boubloons, hundreds of thousands of reals, thousands of every tree and product produced. I like that it will all be reset. I'll start again, its not big deal.   

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1 minute ago, John Sheppard said:

Answer me this PLEASE 

While I appreciate that you asked politely - no.  I'm not looking for an argument, I'm laying it out how people need to comport themselves.  Do so within the confines of decency, and all is good.  Stray outside those confines, and you can look from the outside in while everyone discusses it without you.

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8 minutes ago, Powderhorn said:

This is not "getting off on a technicality."  This is simply explaining how language works.  I don't mind that people are upset.  Most of those posts can stand.  However, I will not allow this propagandistic redefinition of a word to stand simply so players can abuse it and feel like they have some moral high ground.

People are upset about a wipe.  Fair enough.  They should explain why.  If that sways the developers, fair enough.  If it does not, fair enough.

Saying it is 100% sure to happen then going back on it, makes the first a lie. Maybe he did not mean to lie, but that doesn't make it not a lie. It isn't meant to be taken personal but simply a fact of what happened. Regardless, the issue is people still wasted their time on the game base on the information given, still devs don't seem to be considering that at all. 
You're focusing on the wrong aspect of the issue, upset people don't act like they aren't upset. You're basically saying it's okay to be mad but not okay to act like you're mad. It doesn't make sense. The issue is of the devs making, don't put the blame on players for the consequences. 

Edited by Draymoor

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 Devs already said that we will keep books knowledge, and that is already very good. Some people are angry because they have 10 or more accounts to grind again, and now come with threats of sabotaging the game and give negative reviews.

 To those with 10 accounts, shame on you.

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Just now, Draymoor said:

Saying it is 100% sure to happen then going back on it, makes the first a lie. Maybe he did not mean to lie, but that doesn't make it not a lie. 

Actually, it literally does.  Hence why I quoted you the definition.  If you pursue down this path, I will be showing you the door.

As for understanding that people are mad, but asking them not to act mad...  Isn't that how polite society works?

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3 hours ago, admin said:

we indeed said it. But then we also added - expect the worst in the same post
Keeping books = the best of all evils. 

indeed, and very well put since keeping those is indeed an evil (imo they shouldn't even exist, but that's a different matter)

first i had trouble understanding why we get to keep books and ship knowledge, but i think i understand what's going on here: we reset xp because that way we will be all in cutters for 48h (max?), so hopefully all early reviews won't see a too evident unbalance. this is just pr. the unbalance of course will be there, veterans will steamroll over new players in any case and scenario (they would even with a total wipe from day 1). 

i support this decision if it helps to give the game some early notoriety, but i'm a bit skeptical that it will really work because it will unbalance quite fast. for that reason i recommend resetting everything including books and knowledge. if that miffes off the most recalcitrant players that are egoistic/infantile enough to value their past and precious pixel grind above everything else then ... no hard feelings but, honestly, good riddance!

(looking forward for the cutter festival though!! most fun in ages!)

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Full wipe on release!

Burn it down and be reborn!

I've heard for years from some of these guys that my ships were only pixels. Well I'm going to give it right back at them.

Here is some chin music to help inspire the adventurer in you guys!

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Draymoor said:

I have the right to demand what I payed for, simple as that. 

Excellent point.  Let's review:

Quote

ABOUT THIS GAME
Naval action - open world multiplayer sandbox

Naval Action is a hardcore, realistic, and beautifully detailed naval combat game immersing players into the experience of the most beautiful period of naval history - when sailing ships ruled the seas.
Features:
Exciting bugs – Because its still alpha we have an interesting selection of annoying, strange, and sometimes wonderful bugs. We are squashing them one by one, but it's Caribbean - they will keep coming for quite some time.

Enormous open world – Large open world, recreated based on 18th Century maps, historical harbors, positions, and town names. We do not believe in the various modern hand-holding markers, thus player position is not shown on the map: you will have to navigate yourself using compass, sun or landmarks. PS. battles are instanced to allow extremely complex sailing and fighting calculations for 50 ship battles. 

Freedom – Build ships, trade, sink enemies of your nation. You can attack anyone almost everywhere. Remember that every action could have consequences. So don't attack everyone - or you will become a pirate. Conquer almost every port in the Caribbean, but remember! other adventurous captains will try to ruin your plans.

Beautiful ships – Accurate hull models, sail plans, guns, internal upgrades, historical speed, turning and heel performance. Ships from small cutters to large 100+ gun 1st rates will allow the player to experience every possible role of the Age of Sail period. 

Realistic sailing – Advanced wind and physics model provides for realistic portrayal of ship’s performance in the age of sail. Yard angles, ship angle to wind, fittings and ship condition affects speeds and turning rates. Correct tacking, boxhauling, clubhauling and other elements of the age of sail sailing are possible. Hidden ship characteristics will allow to gradually uncover potential of the vessel – every ship in game will be unique. 

Historical gunnery - Realistic ballistics and cannon performance of the period. Every cannonball is tracked in the air and after it hits the target. One shot can hit the stern, damage the rudder, then hit the cannon carriage, injure crew, ricochet from the floor and hit the opposite side. Listing and wind affects the shooting distance and will require change of tactics. 

Weapons - All major types of naval artillery are implemented: from long guns to carronades. Fort and land batteries will provide support during port battles. Mortars are coming soon.

Damage model - Leaks, structural damage, torn sails, demasting, raking, fires and all other hazards that were possible in that era. Damage is positional: hit the gun and you might destroy it. Gunnery crews are placed deck by deck. Shot can pass through the balcony, ricochet of the gun, hit a crew member and then fly out of the gunport splashing into the water. Armor thickness and wood type is implemented and at extreme angles cannonballs will ricochet from the hulls. 

Community driven development - Players actively participate in development and many elements of the game have already been implemented based on the player feedback. Content is immediately given out to players for testing and improvement. Share your thoughts in comments or on the forums.

 

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For those of you who are just arriving to this thread, I shall make bold in summarizing.

4 hours ago, admin said:

You can expect at least 3 resets/wipes [...] One of them will include full XP reset

People are currently dismayed by this for the following reason:

Quote

Rank xp, crafting xp is safe and guaranteed

 

People would obviously like to have their XP reimbursed in the way that Banished Privateer suggested in the first few pages of this thread, or would at least like SUBSTANTIVE compensation because they (self included) feel lied to by the way the word "guaranteed" is currently being stretched into "possibly". 

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8 minutes ago, Charles Edward Stuart said:

For those of you who are just arriving to this thread, I shall make bold in summarizing.

People are currently dismayed by this for the following reason:

 

People would obviously like to have their XP reimbursed in the way that Banished Privateer suggested in the first few pages of this thread, or would at least like SUBSTANTIVE compensation because they (self included) feel lied to by the way the word "guaranteed" is currently being stretched into "possibly". 

 

Crew size rank and crafting rank xp though are quite easy to reskill,  keeping skill books is  nice as they take the longest i think.

Re-skilling ship knowledge is a bind sure but will be same for all.

 I opened that thread over 6 months ago, and yes i understand why some people feel kinda pissed, but things change i guess. 

No point everyone getting hyper about it yet we still a while off the big wipe from what i gathered.

Edited by Dibbler

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