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In Defence of Ganking

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8 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I think you mean "week," not month.  And every week. VCO between members and alts easily pulls down 180 marks a week and that's with a far reduced load of ports we hold now than we would after the initial gold rush of neutral port flipping. So I don't think amassing a couple thousand victory marks over two months is unrealistic at all do you?

Except that average and new players right now can still get shit done with numbers and frigates, as opposed to having neither numbers or line ships to compete against vets in line ships under the new model!  And it's that much easier right now because PvP is relatively cheap.  Sigh, you should just admit you like to feel like a bad ass by sailing line ships and don't like to get ganked by players in frigates. You're one of those fan boys and that's fine. But things aren't going to change for you when you get ganked by players in line ships, other than the fact that you can't rely on a revenge fleet of frigates manned by average players to help you out.

And even in your most ignorant moment you should be able to see that making life harder for new players in 6th and 7th rates, which Admin seems so proud of, who are trying to rank up by grinding AI and capping some traders, is a recipe for Steam refunds.  It's just dumb.

Woa, 180 marks every week. That is almost the same number of players online as VP now. Must be a thing related to alts, funny how alts always f.uck a mechanic one way or another. 

Still, 1500 vm. 1500/3 =500 first rates. 500/10= 50 first rates per member every 60 days. Almost 1 first rate every day. Yeah it is a bit high but there are easy solutions for that.

What I dont like is seeing a santisima being wrecked by one fir fir Hercules and one Belle poule. And I have seen that happening.

What I dont like is a 32 or a 42pd bouncing in a 5th rate at 150m angled only 30°.

For the record, I only sail SoL in groups and when the group also have SoL. And I have never had another ship in fleet. I highly doubt that personal approach will change with the new damage model. Lineships will still cost me a lot. 

About counter ganks we will see what happens. There are too many variables to take into consideration. Im fairly confident ram dinark will still kill many players but that is quite common for over 3 years now. Those kind of players will always have the upper hand, one way or another. 

 

About your concerns about new players, no one has asked for not being able to take down a ship 1-2 class above your rate. 

Admin should realize the best approach to deal with starting players in the new system and dont make them quit in frustration (specially in pve).

 

And most important, we are here to test and help making the necessary tweaking. Nothing is final. 

 

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4 hours ago, Intrepido said:

Still, 1500 vm. 1500/3 =500 first rates. 500/10= 50 first rates per member every 60 days. Almost 1 first rate every day.

Where do you get 10 members?  :P I think you're underestimating the number of players/alts we have.

4 hours ago, Intrepido said:

What I dont like is seeing a santisima being wrecked by one fir fir Hercules and one Belle poule. And I have seen that happening.

What I dont like is a 32 or a 42pd bouncing in a 5th rate at 150m angled only 30°.

But this only happens when there is an extreme skill gap.  And that's what I really don't understand. Why would anyone want to narrow the ship gap when such an extreme skill gap will just exacerbate the outcomes experienced by the new and casual players?  Can anyone explain that to me?  I feel like everyone magically thinks that you put the less skilled player in a bigger ship and they'll fare better. (HINT: They won't when you're forcing the more skilled player to sail the same ship!)

4 hours ago, Intrepido said:

About your concerns about new players, no one has asked for not being able to take down a ship 1-2 class above your rate. 

Admin should realize the best approach to deal with starting players in the new system and dont make them quit in frustration (specially in pve).

I hope you're right but his comments about how it's a big challenge to sink a snow in a cutter with the new model, and how much he loves that makes me worried. :(

Edited by Wraith
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2 hours ago, Wraith said:

But this only happens when there is an extreme skill gap. And that's what I really don't understand. Why would anyone want to narrow the ship gap when such an extreme skill gap will just exacerbate the outcomes experienced by the new and casual players?  Can anyone explain that to me?  I feel like everyone magically thinks that you put the less skilled player in a bigger ship and they'll fare better. (HINT: They won't when you're forcing the more skilled player to sail the same ship!)

One of my biggest concerns is that the strange path, which has partly always been there will become more frequent: it is the one where captains try to level up as quickly as possible to get to the biggest ships. When they reach it, they want to discover more, but they completely forgot to learn sailing on that way. It could get even worse because of the possible SOL meta. 

The last few month there were many new players (esp brits, pirates, french, russians and spanish) who roamed the shallows and had lots of PvP, they gathered experience from the scratch. Perfect in my eyes. PvP right from the start, so you know the basics when you get to bigger ships. 

Hopefully I will be wrong, but it really could evolve that players learn pvping in bigger ships, which is harder and especially more expensive/frustrating.

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8 hours ago, Sento de Benimaclet said:

Staun, elite players know how to protect themselves. 

Are you sure of that?

Think over the last 6 month, there have been numbers of demands to change mechanic, imo that would favor the elite players. Often the reason is not based on the belive that it gives a better gameplay, but because it is not fair and make the game unresonable.

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3 hours ago, Wraith said:

I hope you're right but his comments about how it's a big challenge to sink a snow in a cutter with the new model, and how much he loves that makes me worried. :(

Admin is a f****** casual, I wouldn't be too worried.

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3 hours ago, Palatinose said:

One of my biggest concerns is that the strange path, which has partly always been there will become more frequent: it is the one where captains try to level up as quickly as possible to get to the biggest ships. When they reach it, they want to discover more, but they completely forgot to learn sailing on that way. It could get even worse because of the possible SOL meta. 

The last few month there were many new players (esp brits, pirates, french, russians and spanish) who roamed the shallows and had lots of PvP, they gathered experience from the scratch. Perfect in my eyes. PvP right from the start, so you know the basics when you get to bigger ships. 

Hopefully I will be wrong, but it really could evolve that players learn pvping in bigger ships, which is harder and especially more expensive/frustrating.

You cant enter the shallows with lineships so that will continue happening.

I also think shallow ships arent the best to learn the most decisive aspects of the naval combat. I have seen many captains ok in shallow ships and quite bad in lineships. Shallow ships are the easiest ones due to speed and maneuverability and you can make decisions in the moment. Lineships works at a different pace, much more tactical approach and having to take always into consideration the wind. More than half of the shallow ships can go downwind and upwind.

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6 hours ago, Wraith said:

Where do you get 10 members?  :P I think you're underestimating the number of players/alts we have.

But this only happens when there is an extreme skill gap.  And that's what I really don't understand. Why would anyone want to narrow the ship gap when such an extreme skill gap will just exacerbate the outcomes experienced by the new and casual players?  Can anyone explain that to me?  I feel like everyone magically thinks that you put the less skilled player in a bigger ship and they'll fare better. (HINT: They won't when you're forcing the more skilled player to sail the same ship!)

I hope you're right but his comments about how it's a big challenge to sink a snow in a cutter with the new model, and how much he loves that makes me worried. :(

Just looking at the screenshots of your port battles.

However if you have more active players it means you will be able to lose even less first rates per member every day, which is a good thing. Althought it is clearly too many first rates.

 

About gaps, at least the skillful player will sink the noob one in a ship closer to his class. It will always look less pathetic in the result window.

Edited by Intrepido
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3 hours ago, staun said:

Think over the last 6 month, there have been numbers of demands to change mechanic, imo that would favor the elite players. Often the reason is not based on the belive that it gives a better gameplay, but because it is not fair and make the game unresonable.

I think that whoever needs protection in the game in any case are the new players. An elite player knows perfectly the mechanics, and if they have to change these, that it is for the benefit of all, not only of them. PvP carries the risk of you meeting a single enemy or being caught by a whole group. For me there is only combat.

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1 hour ago, Intrepido said:

You cant enter the shallows with lineships so that will continue happening.

I also think shallow ships arent the best to learn the most decisive aspects of the naval combat. I have seen many captains ok in shallow ships and quite bad in lineships. Shallow ships are the easiest ones due to speed and maneuverability and you can make decisions in the moment. Lineships works at a different pace, much more tactical approach and having to take always into consideration the wind. More than half of the shallow ships can go downwind and upwind.

Well I would highly doubt that shallow ships are the easiest, as this depends entirely on the player. Everything is faster, which means mistakes get payed off quicker. 

Ofc SOL combat is more of a fleet combat. The point I wanted to make is the following: shallow pvping is intersting but doesn't help you to quickly lvl up the last ranks. If the predicted meta will occur, people will spend less time in the shallows and rather more time grinding. 

If people spend less time in PvP and don't learn it slowly, they will have a harder time learning the difficulties of end game combat. Less basics = longer time for learning advanced stuff. 

It's my assumption, you don't have to agree to it.

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8 hours ago, Intrepido said:

I have seen many captains ok in shallow ships and quite bad in lineships.

You just made that up to support your narrative.

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All these gankers and haters... I prefer to call the ganking fleets "Patrol Groups", if a single player gets sunk outside of an enemy Capitol because he was sinking traders that were doing commerce there, and is sunk by two players... is the pirate ganked?

C'mon guys... we cant be nerfing our mechanics that allow us to protect waters while land is still in sight. Pirates generally like to use land marks for navigation anyway.

The loser generally feels ganked anyway. No matter what you do... the loser tends to say... at least the losers that don't understand... they say, damn, I got ganked, stupid gankers cant win without numbers... I got called a ganker a bit ago and I was by myself. I thought it was just silly. Maybe they just needed more practice is all.

Now seriously... ganking really is a bit of an issue, I suggest making more BR limits within a certain distant to land, but once outside that BR limit zone... free for all outside of sight of land, anyone could attack anyone out there after all.

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On 2/20/2019 at 2:19 AM, van Veen said:

We need to protect the elite players.

Ummm… define the Elite. Elite combat players... or just elite economists. An elite fighter can escape from many foes. An elite player runs only that which he/she can replace readily. An elite player has plans for every situation and loses on their own account.

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A lone merchant, on the War server,  loads up a light ship with cargo and heads off to sell the goods and make some Reals.   I like to do that and there is a certain excitement because there is some risk of attack.  There is zero danger from weather,  no danger from shoals or rocky shores, no sandbars or mud flats, and absolutely no chance of collision with another vessel.   If the ship is very small, the BR is likewise small. 

Are we seriously trying to create a game where any ship is immune from attack; near shore, or if there are multiple enemy, or  if the attacking ship is too powerful, or too weak?

I can imagine the conversation on the raider's deck as they see me sailing towards them.

Sail Ho Sir! It's an enemy ships sir!  Shall we beat to quarters?  Action Stations!?  Please sir, say yes, we have passed by last 12 ships"
" Hold on there laddie, call the pursuer, he'll help us calculate the battle rating and determine if we can engage.  The battle must be fair, competitive and sportsmanlike.  There is no point winning this war if we have to resort to ganking".

 

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