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too many nations?

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30 minutes ago, Vidar said:

You could make nation transfer free if you're in a big nation and join a lesser populated nation

Then, with player migrations, the "most populated" are transformed into the "less populated" thus granting free transfers all the time ( in theory ) making the purchased DLC obsolete.

 

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Couldn't there be specific sub-factions with their own set of rules, RoEs, Local reinforcement areas, trade goods(?), missions? Like noob/training factions, Pvp, Pve, RvR, trade, smuggling, etc...

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21 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

We are actually missing a lot of the AUS/SEA players that won't play cause of server location.  We really need to move it to a more general world location for all players over all. 

quite hard to move it to a more general world location though, because the last time i heard it the earth was round

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21 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

, just they aren't stuck in one corner of the map to easily farm.

 

Yes, there is a farming element to that of course, there's no one that can say it isn't true BUT you could also phrase it another way.

"to easily find because the player numbers are so low it isn't worth the time sailing around empty areas to look for them and most likely find nothing"

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19 minutes ago, Wyy said:

quite hard to move it to a more general world location though, because the last time i heard it the earth was round

And some locations are closer to the majority of the players.  @Wraith did a whole post on pings and locations to give detail better server locations than Central Europe.   

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I do not understand the context of this discussion.

Are we discussing lack of players? Because for me this has nothing to do with the amount of nations we have. Of course it might be harder to fill the BRs of a big portbattle, but then shouldn't we discuss an adjustment of BR of ports.

For me a bigger issue is the size of the map and the amount of ports compared to current amount players , but then we shouldn't design the game for a pre-release playerbase but create the requirements to sustain a healthy amount of players.

Even though I like the idea of subfactions and more distinctive nations with special traits, which will have to be heavily balances tho. 

Part of my fascination for RvR is the unregulated sandbox politics with no rules in place. In my humble opinion, if we create a diplomacy system it should not cut the freedom of this sandbox experience. 

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8 minutes ago, Henry Durnin said:

Part of my fascination for RvR is the unregulated sandbox politics with no rules in place. In my humble opinion, if we create a diplomacy system it should not cut the freedom of this sandbox experience. 

The sandbox is a lie. E.V.E is the greatest sandbox in the world and it has alliances. Lack of features is not what a sandbox makes.

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1 hour ago, Slim McSauce said:

The sandbox is a lie. E.V.E is the greatest sandbox in the world and it has alliances. Lack of features is not what a sandbox makes.

Well alliances inbetween player factions... but a nation in NA is not a player faction per se, Clans are. I am not against implementing an alliance system, but was merely pointing out that I don't like it to limit the sandbox game experience but rather augment it. Please read my post thoroughly. 

More practical: As in EVE the alliance system has incentives for players/Corps/Clans(not Nations) to create one, but I do not like the idea of limiting my actions. So why give me a physical barrier not to attack my ally in OW, but rather suffer consequences of my actions. Isn't that what a real ally is, having the ability to attack you but rather chooses to support for a common goal (incentive), or maybe even having an own agenda ? Motivation rather than limitation.

Isn't that what made it so intetesting to play DayZ in those early days? Not knowing if the guy will backstab you after looting together for hours.

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Something must be done, thats for sure. Low pop on some nations promotes people leaving the game. That new danish guy wont simply buy a DLC for 20€ if he is looking for the battles the trailer on the steam page is showing after reaching max rank and be supposely able to play those battles.

@admin , the issue affects player retention, one of the biggest problems of NA.

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New players wont need dlc to change nation.they have nothing to lose and can just delete their character and start again :)

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31 minutes ago, PG Monkey said:

New players wont need dlc to change nation.they have nothing to lose and can just delete their character and start again :)

They lose their xp (rank and craft), the time they invested farming their ressources.

I dont know you but if in the middle of a game my save gets lost or corrupted I just give up with the game unless there is a fix that will prevent that from happening again.

THAT fix can not be a DLC.

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On 2/21/2019 at 5:10 PM, Coraline Vodka said:

Asking new players to delete and start from 0 is pretty poor imo, maybe give new accounts free nation changes for a month. Also new players should all start with their nation capital and shroud cay.

Perhaps giving one set of non tradable forged papers on completion of tutorial...

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On 2/19/2019 at 5:23 PM, jonnysweden said:

Only an ignorant brit could say prussia, poland, denmark are unhistorical
Typical ************* edited out by mods

No Britain in these waters in 1500.
Keep only Spain/France. Replace Britain with Pakistan, and Barbary Coasts

 

The countries aren't unhistorical.

 

Their presence in the Caribbean in the timeframe of 1795-1818 is.

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1 hour ago, Lord Robert Calder said:

The countries aren't unhistorical.

 

Their presence in the Caribbean in the timeframe of 1795-1818 is.

Having more than a single HMS Victory is unhistorical, let's remove all except mine. Everyone else can sail the basic 3rd rate ( HMS Bellona can only exist once and is mine aswell btw ) but only after they served their nation for many years IRL time and after being promoted. We also need to have monarchs for the nations and if you don't do as they please, you will be kicked from the nation. Those monarchs will be chosen by admin and can not be changed ( I should be one of them ), democracy would not be historical after all. Pirates are not allowed to be a proper nation and they can not sail anything bigger than a medium frigate, they can not have access to any economy or crafting related mechanics other than smuggling (trading).

The list goes on but you get the idea... kind of tried reflecting how egocentric some of you people are. The game has a lot of issues but too many nations is certainly not one of them - if some people don't like those nations they can simply not join them and remove all their ports from the map through conquest.

Let everyone who enjoys sailing for those nations be and lubber off to your zerg nations.

 

This is what the store page says about the game:

"Naval action - open world multiplayer sandbox

Naval Action is a hardcore, realistic, and beautifully detailed naval combat game ..."

Notice how it says "sandbox"? It means players make the rules and shape the world in the game, not history books. Notice how it says "realistic", not "historical"?

 

I could have understanding for this complaint, if they had added vikings with longboats and sea monsters but this is simply ridiculous. Naval action with 2-3 nations maximum ( and that is what you would end up with, if you would remove all nations that didnt matter much in the caribbean back then historically ) sounds boring AF.

 

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23 minutes ago, Sovereign said:

The list goes on but you get the idea... kind of tried reflecting how egocentric some of you people are. The game has a lot of issues but too many nations is certainly not one of them - if some people don't like those nations they can simply not join them and remove all their ports from the map through conquest.

How can you be so sure? name 1 (one) other MMO with more than 5 factions. What benefit is there having nations with only 1-4% of the global population which can't compete in the large scale warfare of RVR? Isn't that setting them up for failure? Not only that but new players may pick this nation, play into it and later find out there's only 30 or so other people with them and be stuck in the pit. That's after they get mowed into redundancy by the mains 4 where people flock to.

On 2/20/2019 at 3:59 AM, admin said:

Example
USA/France/Spain/Portugal?
Sweden/Norway/Denmark/Poland?
Prussia/Austria/Russia/Dutch?
Britain +?
Barbary coast/Turkey/Venice?
East India Coalition (Qing Dynasty, Japan, Mogols,?)
Pirates

We are still ending up with 5-6 blocks anyway, and if we go above 3 it becomes irrelevant how many we have.

Ironically this is the better idea and solves the alliance problem. As long as clans can war other clans within a co-olition than it works.

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1 hour ago, Slim McSauce said:

What benefit is there having nations with only 1-4% of the global population which can't compete in the large scale warfare of RVR? Isn't that setting them up for failure?

The benefit is diversity, additional options and more freedom of choice. What is the downside? 1-4% of the global population forced into the zerg, when they would rather play their own nation? They set themselves up for fail, if they fail. Nobody forces anyone to play for minority nations.

1 hour ago, Slim McSauce said:

Not only that but new players may pick this nation, play into it and later find out there's only 30 or so other people with them and be stuck in the pit. That's after they get mowed into redundancy by the mains 4 where people flock to.

For this to be the case, the following has to happen first:

1. New player selecting hardcore nation, despite warning on the nation selection. ( That's pretty stupid )

2. New player unwilling to change nation after finding out about the situation on the hardcore nation, despite the fact that he has nothing to lose since he is new.

3. New player also unwilling to purchase the forger DLC to make his supposedly bad experience in the hardcore nation change.

All new players that I have met / sailed with on prussia are happy with their nation choice and the help they receive from other players in the nation, tho admittedly they all seemed to enjoy PvP, even when losing. Haven't heard of anyone "stuck" in a hardcore nation either to be honest.

Personally I would be willing to test how only 3 nations ( GB, Spain and France ) would work out, tho I imagine it would be much more boring. Removing only the 3 hardcore nations is out of the question in my opinion, as it would achieve nothing other than piss people sailing for them off. Prussia and Russia have more RvR power than most other non zerg core nations anyways, so if anything we would have to remove Dutch, Danes, US and Poles as those would be the ones that can compete the least in a large scale warfare of RvR.

Edited by Sovereign
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I agree that there are too many nations. There should be 1 nation, where newbies learn how to sail in a small safe zone. Everything else should be clans based.

Thats how I see it.

Edited by Capt Aerobane
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On 2/20/2019 at 2:25 PM, Banished Privateer said:

It is easier to understand Lars' and staun concerns about removing hardcore nations when you look at the map. At the moment it's hardcore nations surrounding Denmark-Norge, from all sides Poles, Prussians and Russians:

image.thumb.png.f7f19732471c2e03b61ab0e4d8746c55.png

Oh hadn't seen you mention me. Not sure where I come in. I don't care for RvR, so why should I care for witch nations that are in the game, and witch is close to Christiansted. It has little relevans for me. As long there just is some enemy close, so I have Ai's to kill in the capitol zone. 

But plz enlighten me how you come to the conslussion, that just because some hardcore nations are close to danish wathers, I should prefere that they is in the game.

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On 2/24/2019 at 4:29 PM, Sovereign said:

how egocentric some of you people are [... T]he game has a lot of issues but too many nations is certainly not one of them - if some people don't like those nations they can simply not join them.

To be frank, and now having read this abhorrent comment for yet another time on the review of this thread:
How absolutely self absorbed one must be to equate playability with realism, and concern over population distribution to egocentrism.

The argument for too many nations has never been just about "hurr duhrr they weren't here historically!" because it was very clear when they were added that there was a reasonably elaborate backstory as to why they were being added. The fact of the matter is that this being a player-stimulated economy, absolutely nothing is possible in a small nation that can't even muster the activity to flip a port. This must certainly be easy for a nation like Great Britain which boasts 28% of the server population, or even Pirates at 14%, but makes no case whatsoever for the Polish-Lithuanian 1% population share. It is simply not feasible in any period of time for a nation that cannot actively participate in the game to retain any amount of players. Joining a desolate wasteland of a nation chat for new players must quickly turn into "this game is surely dead" and a rapid uninstall and refund for those affected. 

By removing the superfluous nations such as Denmark, Sweden, Russia, Prussia, and Poland, we are left then with Great Britain, France, Spain, Netherlands, USA, and Pirates which is far more of a long-term solution to the low playerbase that we've suffered from in early access. The argument could be made for "but what if the game really truly takes off post-release and there are thousands of players!" to which the response will be: at which point you can consider adding some such nations back into the game.

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5 hours ago, Isaac Le Maire said:

The argument for too many nations has never been just about "hurr duhrr they weren't here historically!"

Except for it actually was. Most people complained about this.

5 hours ago, Isaac Le Maire said:

The fact of the matter is that this being a player-stimulated economy, absolutely nothing is possible in a small nation that can't even muster the activity to flip a port. This must certainly be easy for a nation like Great Britain which boasts 28% of the server population, or even Pirates at 14%, but makes no case whatsoever for the Polish-Lithuanian 1% population share. It is simply not feasible in any period of time for a nation that cannot actively participate in the game to retain any amount of players. Joining a desolate wasteland of a nation chat for new players must quickly turn into "this game is surely dead" and a rapid uninstall and refund for those affected. 

Nobody is forced into the minor nations and the hardcore nations have a explicit warning upon character creation. Even if a completely new player would ignore the warning ( which again, would be completely retarded when he looks for a well populated and easy nation ), nothing stops them from changing nation after realizing their mistake. There is a "help" and "global" chat, even if the nation chat is empty. The hardcore nations are what pirates should have been and in my opinion a very welcome addition to the game.

5 hours ago, Isaac Le Maire said:

By removing the superfluous nations such as Denmark, Sweden, Russia, Prussia, and Poland, we are left then with Great Britain, France, Spain, Netherlands, USA, and Pirates which is far more of a long-term solution to the low playerbase that we've suffered from in early access. The argument could be made for "but what if the game really truly takes off post-release and there are thousands of players!" to which the response will be: at which point you can consider adding some such nations back into the game.

Currently USA and Netherlands are superfluous compared to Russia and Prussia, so if we go by popularity / player numbers as you suggest then we end up with GB, Spain, France, Pirates, Russia and maybe Sweden? USA and Netherlands are at the bottom of the list and would have to be nuked aswell.

As I said I would be open to testing GB, France, Spain and maybe pirates as only playable nations to actually get all nations somewhat filled but I don't see it happen this close to release and with the flags they already sold for all nations. Pretty sure the nations we have at the moment will remain in game as they are.

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 Just an observation, but why is it the people asking to be rid of smaller nations don't seem to ever include their own.

 Odd that :)

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13 hours ago, Dibbler said:

Just an observation, but why is it the people asking to be rid of smaller nations don't seem to ever include their own.

 Odd that :)

Wish I could like this several times to be honest. Exactly what I am thinking.

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