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dc1962

medium vs long cannons?

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I've gone back and forth about using medium  vs long cannon-penetration and distance over speed of reloading. What do you guys think?

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I don't see any advantage for the long gun.

Mediums have more damage, better reload. Accuracy is basically the same for reasons I will point out. Will penetrate anything a long gun will because balls bounce of every ship at the slightest angles at 150+m. On paper they don't but the players I fight all have carthagena + teak wo frigates. 

Long guns advantage used to be long range chaining, mast sniping and long range combat. Ever since multi reps long range combat is not enough DPS to overcome repair times.

For some reason I use the long gun still. Have no idea why.

For the upcoming combat changes I think the long will stay completely useless because the best way to kill things will be to get really close with doubles and carros and end battle asap. Hard to say for sure since pvp and new combat model have not been tested. First thing I will do when we get pvp will be trying to battle at 200+m. Since angles still are a thing I doubt the long will have any uses. 

 

14 hours ago, van der Decken said:
  • If I it's a generally soft ship I use longs to keep distance.
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I have not sank a ship at 150+ in a long long time. There is literally no way to keep distance against a good player unless your ship is 1+knot faster. If you are that fast you will still not be able to sink the enemy ship if he is not a complete idiot. 

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Really the distinction shouldn't be between medium and long ordnance, but between medium and heavy ordnance.

"Long guns" are heavily built, accept full charges and (with reduced charge) double shot as options. Lengths can vary significantly, for example the 6lb gun comes in lengths from 6ft to 8.5ft, the 9lb from 7ft to 9ft, but the weights are closer, with the heavy breech being common and only the chase being significantly different in length and having a much thinner wall.

The medium gun is a much lighter construction, unsuited to double shot, and typically having a lower maximum charge. Lengths can be longer than the average 'long gun' - though it most commonly also at the shorter end of the 'heavy gun' construction range of lengths. (An example of a 'long' "medium" gun is the 10ft+ 24lb ordnance of the Vasa, which are around half the weight of a 9ft 24lb of the Armstrong/Blomefeld patterns, and also the shorter pattern later 'rebores' of 18lb guns to 32lb or 9lb to 18lb, and the various failed experiments with reduced weight guns, such as Congreve pattern guns).

These all show less performance with worse recoil, and less flexibility in operation {the long guns can be used with reduced charges, and with double shot to span a far wider range of velocities than carronades (with which they share a common 'minimum' velocity), medium guns (which are middling in performance down to carronade level), and also have a higher velocity for flatter fire and performance out to extended ranges}.

 

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Penetration is my primary concern.  No pen, no damage.  It's also nice to have more of your shots go where you're trying to aim them.  Mediums also waste some of your limited chain to dispersion.  You can afford lower pen and higher dispersion if you're really good at manouvering to stay at the right range for mediums to be effective. 

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I like that little bit of speed gain, less crew required, and higher rate of fire of mediums. But I am in the minority.

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It depends on the ships ability and what I intend to do with it.

  • If the ship is a close brawler I will load carronades or mediums.
  • If I it's a generally soft ship I use longs to keep distance.
  • If my SoL is shy on crew I will run mediums on bottom deck and longs on other decks.
  • In a PB I will usually load whatever the commander suggests depending on his planned tactics
  • I run longs on bow for tagging and carronades on stern for sail/mast dmg.
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Great question.

And what if you are running Traders Lynx or Traders Brigs?  And does the stern of the TBrigs need different ones?

Oh, and should fleet ships have different ones than the main?

 

Edited by Macjimm

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It depends on what you want the ship to do. In most cases however if you plan to use this ship for important moments or certain types of voyages I would invest in longs. Mediums I tend to use for NPC fleet ships, cannon fodder, certain tank builds with carronades, etc. 

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8 hours ago, van der Decken said:

It depends on the ships ability and what I intend to do with it.

This +1

It really depends on situation and ship type. One thing I would add to what s already been mentioned is to look at reload times across the decks. It might be worth running mediums on the bottom deck vs long on top for the lighter calibre as this can save crew and it helps synchronize your broadside

 

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2 hours ago, HachiRoku said:
  15 hours ago, van der Decken said:
  • If I it's a generally soft ship I use longs to keep distance.

I have not sank a ship at 150+ in a long long time. There is literally no way to keep distance against a good player unless your ship is 1+knot faster. If you are that fast you will still not be able to sink the enemy ship if he is not a complete idiot. 

Agreed for the most part. I usually seem to be a mid rate in the group facing 3rd or 2nd rates, hence why I keep a distance. However, my very soft Trinc is full carronades to swoop in and out fast being able to deal some worthy damage.....so long as I don't get dismasted by our certain Russian nemesis. heh

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1 hour ago, Lieste said:

Really the distinction shouldn't be between medium and long ordnance, but between medium and heavy ordnance.

"Long guns" are heavily built, accept full charges and (with reduced charge) double shot as options. Lengths can vary significantly, for example the 6lb gun comes in lengths from 6ft to 8.5ft, the 9lb from 7ft to 9ft, but the weights are closer, with the heavy breech being common and only the chase being significantly different in length and having a much thinner wall.

The medium gun is a much lighter construction, unsuited to double shot, and typically having a lower maximum charge. Lengths can be longer than the average 'long gun' - though it most commonly also at the shorter end of the 'heavy gun' construction range of lengths. (An example of a 'long' "medium" gun is the 10ft+ 24lb ordnance of the Vasa, which are around half the weight of a 9ft 24lb of the Armstrong/Blomefeld patterns, and also the shorter pattern later 'rebores' of 18lb guns to 32lb or 9lb to 18lb, and the various failed experiments with reduced weight guns, such as Congreve pattern guns).

These all show less performance with worse recoil, and less flexibility in operation {the long guns can be used with reduced charges, and with double shot to span a far wider range of velocities than carronades (with which they share a common 'minimum' velocity), medium guns (which are middling in performance down to carronade level), and also have a higher velocity for flatter fire and performance out to extended ranges}.

 

A lot of information but I am pretty sure the question pertained to which is a better choice in the game.

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