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Urgent Repair


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A small change, "urgent repair" should repair downed sections of masts up to 15%. This would be topsails and topsail gallents, or the bottom section of full mast.
I would also say also an option to repair internal structure 15% as well. This would be an option, you can choose emergency repair masts, or emergency repair structure/modules.
This has a few benefits. One, it helps balance out some of the extremity of the upcoming DM for ships. One broadside can leave you half stucture with which very well may be death. 15% stucture isn't much but it's enough to help negate some of the speed mallus you get from losing hull integrity. For masts it's much more noteworthy, demasting has big issues with the combat model because historically demasting wasn't an official tactic, sure it was nice when it happened but masts weren't aimed for, the goal of aiming high was to damage spars, rigging, perhaps a masts.
Cannons being very accurate it's very easy to focus down entire sections of masts and people use it as a main playstyle to quickly end battles. This is unrealistic and gamey.
Masts don't specifically need buffing, but losing masts, since it's so common, should be more manageable. That is the aim of this suggestion. What do you think?

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Since masts have not even been adressed yet I would wait for suggestions like this. Before the patch goes live they will have to buff masts anyway. I am not certain but I think it would not matter if you repaired your masts with the current system. Masts are tied to the structure of the ship and after repairing the mast it would drop after 1 ball again. I sometimes doubt dismasting can be fixed. Its either impossible or possible and to easy. If dismasting is available as a tactic it will be used. One of the reasons people don't dismast all the time now is because its hard to predict if the ship you are going to dismast will have elite french rig. I don't snipe masts now because its a gamble. Its funny in duels because most players get their mast mods ready against me and I never intend to dismast :) I also don't use DD but thats cause I like to live dangerously. Most people don't even try boarding because they assume it lol. 

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Yeah well that's not a good solution. Losing a masts is a part of the battle, mods like elite french paired with navy bands or whatever aren't adding to the game. They're the result of already disfunctional demasting meta to create an all or nothing solution. Masts are either impenetrable, or they're paper. Demasting is a thing and adding mods and skills to make it not a thing doesn't make it right, it's a splint on a broken leg. Demasting should be a consistent and fair approach to a battle, it shouldn't be the first thing on your mind neither should it be the last. Adding a kmiriti masts for mast immunity is ignoring the problem that has around since forever that hasn't had a serious attempt at solving.

Edited by Slim McSauce
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1 minute ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

Urgent repair should auto-heal masts like doing a rig rep but not repair sails.

Maybe that would cut down on the tedious mast sniping that happens a lot of the time in duels.

Lets weigh the options, what can actually be done about demasting?

The obvious first thing would be buff masts, but not in a direct way but make it so rigging needs to be weakened before demasting is viable, that way people aren't chopping bottom mast when they should be fighting the hull battle.

Second thing which is also somewhat obvious but hasn't been tried, lessen  the accuracy of cannons! We know the effect of stern v bow cannons, we've all felt the difference. Lesser accuracy, lesser mast sniping, it's simple. 

Third thing, which is more of a principle. Demasting will always be a part of the game. Some may not like it but it's a part of the experience. If everything was realistic, from damage to HP, then demasting WOULD be quite easy, maybe a few direct battle to before a mast is hanging by the rigging. That out of the way, we can only have that IF accuracy against masts is true to how it was in real life, that masts were not AIMED for, but they were a result of aiming high into the sails/rigging/spares. 

All in all, I would say mast HP feels right  from a realism standpoint, what makes it a problem is that cannon aiming and accuracy are not realistic. It's very easy to focus down a mast. It's where realism and arcade intersect that demasting has become a problem.
 

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44 minutes ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

Urgent repair should auto-heal masts like doing a rig rep but not repair sails.

Maybe that would cut down on the tedious mast sniping that happens a lot of the time in duels.

No ty

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3 hours ago, Slim McSauce said:

 For masts it's much more noteworthy, demasting has big issues with the combat model because historically demasting wasn't an official tactic, sure it was nice when it happened but masts weren't aimed for, the goal of aiming high was to damage spars, rigging, perhaps a masts.
 

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Constitution#Constitution_vs._Guerriere

 

Keep talking you little  shit something 

Edited by Beeekonda
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What are you refuting? Demasting is a part of sea combat, it happens often which is why you need secondary repairs specifically for masts. Why is that so hard to understand? You just want to lose your mast in the first broadside and the fight be over which is the exact problem with demasting right now.

Edited by Slim McSauce
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  1. I am 100% sure you dont know what it takes to take down a mast
  2. Why would you repair masts without using resources?
  3. Cooldown is only 8 minutes
  4. Cooldown with Emergency Master is just 4 minutes 
  5. Post above related to "focus down entire sections of masts and people use it as a main playstyle to quickly end battles. This is unrealistic and gamey.
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1. I do because I've been playing the testbed for like two hours now doing just that
2. Why does it matter? It's called an urgent repair, it's 15% of your health.
3. Yes and that's pretty good. 
4. Then nerf it to 6 minutes
5. Your video does not represent the game
6. Part of the problem. Read the OP.
 

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13 hours ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

Urgent repair should auto-heal masts like doing a rig rep but not repair sails.

Maybe that would cut down on the tedious mast sniping that happens a lot of the time in duels.

This aims in the correct direction, actually demasting is to quick done some players shooting with the first broadside the masts down again and again, this is far from reality at all. It is out of balance if it depends only of your mast mods if you can win a battle or not.

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Not sure about urgent mast repairs, but this might be a good idea for fixing leaks.  

Hit urgent leak repair and your crew automatically goes off gunnery and sailing to fix them.  Similar to brace, the ship can’t fire or turn.  

A Vic or pavel (or even my bellona...) sinking to 50 leaks in 20 secs seems to throw off my realism immersion a bit.  

Just a thought 

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Research shows:

  • Grape needs to be an effective tactic to damage sails and crew (depending on aim ofc)
  • Chain needs to damage sails and rigging (I know devs said rigging does not have a hitbox, but maybe someday)
    • but should be able to take down only top sections of mast
    • the bottom mast structure should not be caused to fall over via chain unless it has HP at 10% or less
  • Ball needs to do some sail damage and some mast damage
    • dismasting above hull is fine and an historical tactic and should stay in game
    • amount of damage to mast should be slightly lessened by giving bottom section of masts more HP
    • dismasting through the hull should not completely remove the mast from multi-decked ships, i.e. 5th rates +, yet it should indeed weaken the mast and slow the ship.
      • I say this because logically snapping a mast below a second deck would not allow a mast to tip over, as the rigging and upper decks would still keep it square. However, the mast certainly would not have the force ability to hold wind at good speed and would slow the ship some.

How to acquire dismasting in parts and in whole:

  • Middle and Top mast sections:
    • via ball directly at mast or chain to destroy rigging.
  • Main mast section:
    • via chain to destroy rigging and ball through hull to break mast

 

@Christendom...love the "Urgent Leak Repair" idea. Much needed. What ship has 50 cannon on one broadside that can pen at that angle from all decks? IMO, I think leaks should occur a lot less frequently, or not cause leaks on the opposite side of hull, or the top 2 decks should not be able to pen due to angle. Recently, I took 34 leaks in one broadside from a Bellona and sank in 20 seconds and I wasn't even keeled a single degree and was angle almost 45 degrees. It has only 37 cannon on one side. The top deck is only 18 lb. Sure 18s can do dmg and pen, but should they pen a curved section of hull below the waterline when they can't pen a hull if angled??

14 hours ago, Slim McSauce said:

Also OW should have the option of repairing without using mats, but it takes 5 minutes of anchoring.

Without using mats? You mean free repairs? If so, then no plz. However, I love the idea of having to anchor for a time. Would suck when a gank fleet is waiting for you, but I still like the idea.

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10 hours ago, van der Decken said:

Without using mats? You mean free repairs? If so, then no plz. However, I love the idea of having to anchor for a time. Would suck when a gank fleet is waiting for you, but I still like the idea.

Then you should like the idea in it's entirety, otherwise there would be no benefit to repairing in the OW, and after a single battle in the new dmg system you can expect to be out of repairs and returning to port.

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On 2/10/2019 at 1:29 AM, HachiRoku said:

Since masts have not even been adressed yet I would wait for suggestions like this. Before the patch goes live they will have to buff masts anyway. I am not certain but I think it would not matter if you repaired your masts with the current system. Masts are tied to the structure of the ship and after repairing the mast it would drop after 1 ball again. I sometimes doubt dismasting can be fixed. Its either impossible or possible and to easy. If dismasting is available as a tactic it will be used. One of the reasons people don't dismast all the time now is because its hard to predict if the ship you are going to dismast will have elite french rig. I don't snipe masts now because its a gamble. Its funny in duels because most players get their mast mods ready against me and I never intend to dismast :) I also don't use DD but thats cause I like to live dangerously. Most people don't even try boarding because they assume it lol. 

the current model on testbed is the following

  • we made it easier (slightly) to destroy mid sections and top sections of masts (lowering HP and thickness).
  • we made it harder to destroy lower mast sections if you fight against ships of the same class. 

As a result when fighting the ship of the same class it is much harder to demast the ship at lower sections, unless you are laying down raking fire from bow and stern. Mods enforce this paradigm as structural damage ignores mast thickness mods. If you are raked consistently on low structure you will get demasted. Gamble - due to mods and asymmetry of information on mods- is reduced and you can expect more consistency with this model. 
 

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4 minutes ago, admin said:

Mods enforce this paradigm as structural damage ignores mast thickness mods.

 

Can you elaborate on this? I never really figured out how demasting through raking is calculated, even in the current model. While its obviously easier, what really happens ingame (mathematically) when a ships internal structure gets low?

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31 minutes ago, Havelock said:

 

Can you elaborate on this? I never really figured out how demasting through raking is calculated, even in the current model. While its obviously easier, what really happens ingame (mathematically) when a ships internal structure gets low?

Structure helps to hold the masts together (rig integrity so to speak). When structure goes down damage delivered through raking can pass onto masts. So in lower structure scenarios it is becoming more beneficial to rake to demast than to shoot masts directly. Because if you shoot masts directly you still have to work through thickness. But when raking you bypass the thickness as you also attack the holding structures themselves. 
This effect was not noticeable on live servers because the structure had a 25% hard limit to damage by raking. On testbed this limit is drastically lowered, which allows you to demast by raking more consistently.

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20 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Are you sure?

The thickness of masts in a pavel is 136 while the penetration of a 42pd at 250m is 136. Considering the high damage of the 42pd dimasting can become easily a new meta.

HP of hull and and HP of mast sections was increased proportionally thus as a result you will not see difference between the live servers and tested in terms of demasting in same ships. 42 damage increased, but so as hp.

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