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Final damage model mega thread (cannons, pens, structure)

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11 hours ago, admin said:

the dps paradox is solved in the new system

 

old guns

dx1xuMr.png

 

new guns

YgvEmnO.png

 

Just as an interesting point here, biggest guns might not always be the most useful guns - the crew use differences can be important, especially as you start using more and more guns.

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3 hours ago, Powderhorn said:

 

Just as an interesting point here, biggest guns might not always be the most useful guns - the crew use differences can be important, especially as you start using more and more guns.

i would like for that to be a factor, but in practice the bigger gun has always been better for about 95% of NA fighting.

the only 2 ships I have heard that players consistently downsize the guns is the Endymion and the Wasa. There is not enough of a trade-off to downsize your guns and an unfortunate factor to the gun damage being increased and the DPM also increasing as you get bigger guns is that now there is even less incentive to have smaller cannons.

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Now that we go historical can we get historical gun crew size? Even for carronades too.

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I personally don't see why the1 poods would do as much damage as they do... I feel that an 18 pound ball would be an 18 pound ball, do you know what I am saying? Shouldn't they be like a poor mans gun...? Craftable… same base damage as their counterparts but no double shot or double charge ability. Why are they so deadly in this game again?

They are lighter and take fewer crew to handle... some say they slightly out range medium cannons too.

1 pood definitely need rebalancing in my opinion.

They should be cheap to craft, light weight and require around the same crew to handle as their medium counterparts without the ability to load double charge or double shot.

That is my humble opinion anyway.

 

Edited by LIONOFWALES
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4 hours ago, LIONOFWALES said:

I personally don't see why the1 poods would do as much damage as they do... I feel that an 18 pound ball would be an 18 pound ball, do you know what I am saying? Shouldn't they be like a poor mans gun...? Craftable… same base damage as their counterparts but no double shot or double charge ability. Why are they so deadly in this game again?

They are lighter and take fewer crew to handle... some say they slightly out range medium cannons too.

1 pood definitely need rebalancing in my opinion.

They should be cheap to craft, light weight and require around the same crew to handle as their medium counterparts without the ability to load double charge or double shot.

That is my humble opinion anyway.

Don't think they require less crew and the range is the same or a bit lower than meds. Their pen values and damage are out-of-balance high. 

The poundage is most likely not the same. Nowhere is stated they are 18pds. There was a thread where people discussed fundamentals regarding these guns. Just too lazy to search honestly ;)

But yeah, especially on Aga they are incredible aka unbalanced.

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22 hours ago, z4ys said:

Maybe it's your Fav ship and the others do not appeal to you. How much time will you spent looking for the 1one fight that will not sink you almost instant?

and I quote: "Guess I will now just have to use a buffed up dlc ship to do the job. Boring.

The way he said it implies he is forced to use a ship he doesn't want to use. I just said he can use a 5th rate to kill fifth rates. 

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15 hours ago, Powderhorn said:

Just as an interesting point here, biggest guns might not always be the most useful guns - the crew use differences can be important, especially as you start using more and more guns.

I have even to this day used 32 pound vics. 32 pounders pen anything anyway. Its really the 24s that start to struggle against the Ocean. I am hoping we can use different guns for 3rd rates for boarding ships as an example. 24s and 18s on a bellona maybe? There will be loads of new tactical options with this new system. Broadside weight will be most important afterall and thats the good part. I am so glad the DPS nonsense is dead now. This is just great. 

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DPS will be gone but RPM will be around so repair mods will dominate. I'm calling this as the new meta. That or people who rely on the brawl will only sail large ships, OR we'll see resurgence of speed capped ships to stay our of reach, general kiting and a higher reliance on ganking for the above average player since no one wants to risk even the possiblity of losing a ship if at all possible.

Edited by Slim McSauce

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19 hours ago, Powderhorn said:

 

Just as an interesting point here, biggest guns might not always be the most useful guns - the crew use differences can be important, especially as you start using more and more guns.

 

14 hours ago, z4ys said:

Now that we go historical can we get historical gun crew size? Even for carronades too.

 

FYI - From the quarter bill of the 74 gun ship HMS Goliath:

Main gun deck 32lb guns: 7 crew (6+1 gun captain)

Upper gun deck 18lb guns: 6 crew (5+1)

QD&FC: 32lb carronades: 2-3 crew, 18 lb long gun: 5 crew (4+1)

Poop deck 18 lb carronades: 2 crew

These numbers are for fighting both sides of the ship. If only one broadside was engaged the crews would be combined. NB this is for the RN obviously so numbers could be different for other navies. 

 

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Technically the gun crews were 14, 12, 5, 10 and 4... but each was responsible for a pair of ordnance one to port and one to starboard. Each crew also had to allocate a man or men to pump water, fight fires, boarding, hauling sails/rigging etc on demand.

Men were allocated at 1 man per 500lb of nominal ordnance weight, permitting long term operation without undue fatigue. This is accomplished with the full crew, and fighting both sides together, or with parties detached would increase fatigue significantly. (Loading both sides could be done with only modest penalty by hauling guns out with all but vent man of the 'off' side being used to haul the 'on' side out, and then setting the majority of the gun crew to haul when the other side was loaded in it's turn. This is obviously a bit slower, but is not as hard on the crew.)

If insufficient crew were available to man all the guns it was common to consolidate what men were around to man the midships guns densely and fully, rather than to attempt to work all guns with too few crew.

Minimum crew for ordnance is 2. As no matter how light it is required for safety to cover the vent while worming, loading and running out.

Edited by Lieste
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@admin If you want to make it even easier to demast via stern raking then you NEED to make to harder to demast by shooting mast directly (especially single fire mast sniping).

Too many battles are settled by players demasting very early on in battle, whether that be by single fire sniping or my personally hated one, downwind kiting where the player just runs downwind constantly turning and firing broadsides into into the foremast which you can't avoid if you want any hope of gaining on them.

At the moment it is considered moronic to leave port without mast protection because of how easy it is to drop masts. 

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lowering demast chances by reducing sails surface should be a thing (we can angle to make bounce on hull, depower vs chain but not much against demast except mods, so a little bit of defensive option could help here)

Edited by Baptiste Gallouédec

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I think it’s a great idea to increase the damage done by larger guns and make a broadside fired by a SOL a devastating event - can we show some restraint though as well? Do we have to turn the volume all the way up to 11 or can we maybe go half way? I personally feel the game is nearing a point of balance and not sure we need to rework everything, which I feel might have to happen if we increase the damage model so much.  Small changes at this point please- Devs.

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6 hours ago, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

lowering demast chances by reducing sails surface should be a thing (we can angle to make bounce on hull, depower vs chain but not much against demast except mods, so a little bit of defensive option could help here)

That combined with a lower accuracy on guns in general would actually be a great idea.. The reduced strain on the masts from flying less sail area would as far as I know reduce the chance of a mast snapping anyway.. but ingame the only way to make it function as I see it would be to increase mast thickness by reducing sailarea which is kinda unrealistic..

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On 2/8/2019 at 4:11 PM, Slim McSauce said:

DPS will be gone but RPM will be around so repair mods will dominate.

Do not stay focussed on your „repair mods will dominate“ thing. I recommend you should play the game and go on the testbed before you estimate something by theory. You are totally wrong. With the new damage we have at testbed we might get a reload meta but repairs are nearly irrelevant now. Why do you want to repair a wrecked ship. Wreck the enemy! You have the game you asked for, you just did not realise it because you do not play it.

Edited by Sir Loorkon
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16 hours ago, Tiedemann said:

Anolytic has a seriously good point here.

The only point in this thread is "I SAIL LO/WO FIRST RATE AND CANNOT ENGAGE OR DISENGAGE WHENEVER I SEE FIT, PLEASE FORCE PEOPLE TO PLAY THE WAY I DO".

sail your ballast, don't force people to do it as well.

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Good luck finding a fight at 15 knots in the OW in your LO/WO L'Ocean, right?

Everyone can e-peen in their trophies with impunity now.

Have fun killing AI, Intrepido.

 

Edited by Vernon Merrill
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4 hours ago, RKY said:

The only point in this thread is "I SAIL LO/WO FIRST RATE AND CANNOT ENGAGE OR DISENGAGE WHENEVER I SEE FIT, PLEASE FORCE PEOPLE TO PLAY THE WAY I DO".

sail your ballast, don't force people to do it as well.

Then new PvP hunting ship will be fir/fir Bellona with speed mods. It can hunt down frigates and outrun normal built line ships. 

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Just now, Tiedemann said:

Then new PvP hunting ship will be fir/fir Bellona with speed mods. It can hunt down frigates and outrun normal built line ships. 

Which is basically what people use now anyway so...

 

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3 hours ago, Vernon Merrill said:

Good luck finding a fight at 15 knots in the OW in your LO/WO L'Ocean, right?

Everyone can e-peen in their trophies with impunity now.

Have fun killing AI, Intrepido.

 

You will adapt and will sail after your initial tantrum.

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I think it is absolutely retarded to have SOLs built from fir or bermuda and it messes with balance too much. I don't know why anyone would argue against Anolytic's proposel as it makes a lot of sense. However, it is debatable whether SOLs should be restricted to only the heaviest woods or also be allowed to be built from medium woods like teak. Personally I would vote for Teak and anything heavier to leave room for different builds.

@admin Are there plans to increase damage for the mortar brig? Haven't had the chance to test it on testbed yet...

Edited by Sovereign
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