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Total Wipe at Release - a suggestion

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So I’ve been thinking about the announced, far-into-the-future, release wipe. It is far too early to worry about wipes, but the announcement/update form devs on how it might go about, sparked an interesting debate.

There are those, who have played this game for long, who don’t want to see their efforts go to «waste». And there are those who want to see a completely clean slate for new players coming into the game at release, and old players as well. I find myself mostly in the latter camp with the «purists», and yet I do appreciate the prospect of getting to keep at least my hard earned XP post release.
 
I remember the previous wipes. There was something novel about everyone starting in basic cutters. About the arms race that followed to grind to max rank and crafting rank 50. To build the biggest ships. The game was pure right after the wipe. Everyone was on equal footing (except for how much free time they had). New players could catch up to veteran players, when everyone started the race from the same position (discounting skill and experience).
 
My suggestion to preserve the integrity of the wipe, is to have 1-2 weeks after release, where the slate is wiped completely clean. Where everybody is on equal footing that start playing on day 1 after the game is launched. 
To please old and returning players, give all the stuff we are supposed to preserve, as one big redeemable package. Be it XP, craft-XP, Ship-XP and skillbooks included if it may. 
But lock those redeemables down for the first 7 or 14 days after release. 
For the first 14 days, everyone starts as kadet/ensign/midshipman/thief
But after 2 weeks, those old players who want to, can get the XP from their old characters back and jump right back up to their old rank.
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26 minutes ago, Anolytic said:

So I’ve been thinking about the announced, far-into-the-future, release wipe. It is far too early to worry about wipes, but the announcement/update form devs on how it might go about, sparked an interesting debate.

There are those, who have played this game for long, who don’t want to see their efforts go to «waste». And there are those who want to see a completely clean slate for new players coming into the game at release, and old players as well. I find myself mostly in the latter camp with the «purists», and yet I do appreciate the prospect of getting to keep at least my hard earned XP post release.
 
I remember the previous wipes. There was something novel about everyone starting in basic cutters. About the arms race that followed to grind to max rank and crafting rank 50. To build the biggest ships. The game was pure right after the wipe. Everyone was on equal footing (except for how much free time they had). New players could catch up to veteran players, when everyone started the race from the same position (discounting skill and experience).
 
My suggestion to preserve the integrity of the wipe, is to have 1-2 weeks after release, where the slate is wiped completely clean. Where everybody is on equal footing that start playing on day 1 after the game is launched. 
To please old and returning players, give all the stuff we are supposed to preserve, as one big redeemable package. Be it XP, craft-XP, Ship-XP and skillbooks included if it may. 
But lock those redeemables down for the first 7 or 14 days after release. 
For the first 14 days, everyone starts as kadet/ensign/midshipman/thief
But after 2 weeks, those old players who want to, can get the XP from their old characters back and jump right back up to their old rank.

Not to be snide, but as a vet I'd just take a break for two weeks.

I'm not averse to a complete wipe, though I feel like it would give many players license to leave the game permanently. I think keeping accrued captain XP while wiping ship knowledge is a reasonable compromise. And in my opinion, I can think of no worse punishment than having to regrind crafting XP under the current scheme. As dumbed down as it is I honestly feel like "crafting" should go away.

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Agree with PG Monkey, I am not in favour of us keeping anything the experience gained in testing is advantage enough

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I really really really don’t want to grind ship slots again.  Max rank comes with time and I’m not particularly worried about that.  But yea f those ship slots.  

 

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3 minutes ago, Christendom said:

I really really really don’t want to grind ship slots again.  Max rank comes with time and I’m not particularly worried about that.  But yea f those ship slots.  

 

That s*** better stay otherwise I won't be back. 

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Anyone who would like to start over, can create a new account. Then everyone can do what they want
Edited by Swifty08
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Do we honestly believe there will be a ton of "new" players right after release? Is game release some sort of magical time where everyone all of a sudden decides to buy and play a game? Will the game be massively different than it is a month before release? Have not the majority of players who will buy and actually play (I mean take the time to achieve max rank and learn to fight passably well) already bought and played Naval Action? I just don't think there'll be a massive influx of new players that everyone seems to be counting on. Rather, I think it'll be mostly old players returning to the game to see if it has become worth their time again. 

And at any rate, what is the difference between a new player coming into the game 3 months after release and dealing with vets who have earned good stuff; vs a new player coming into the game at release and dealing with vets who already have good stuff? It is literally the same experience for that player.

 

35 minutes ago, Swifty08 said:

Anyone who would like to start over, can create a new account. Then everyone can do what they want

This exactly^. Go roleplay a new pirate in the Caribbean if you enjoy that. Start from scratch and pillage and plunder your way to the top. I've done it already please don't ask me to do it again. I didn't enjoy parts of the grind. If other players do and want to play that way then so be it. 

 

42 minutes ago, Christendom said:

I really really really don’t want to grind ship slots again.  Max rank comes with time and I’m not particularly worried about that.  But yea f those ship slots.

+1 ships slot grind is the worst.

Wipe if we must, but let us keep all types of XP. Especially ship XP. That is definitely one of the worst parts of Naval Action for me. Its such a silly and unnecessary feature to have. It hides necessary* parts of the game (upgrades) behind a wall of grind. I've done it for all the ships that matter, I don't want to do it again. 

*Someone is surely going to come along and say how you don't need ship slots to do anything. Kindly stuff it. <_<  Everyone knows if you don't have at least 3-4 regular upgrade (skillbook) slots unlocked your ship is gimped from battle start. Thanks to gear meta (another discussion for another time).

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36 minutes ago, Christendom said:

I really really really don’t want to grind ship slots again.  Max rank comes with time and I’m not particularly worried about that.  But yea f those ship slots.

Ship slots and learned books is my concern aswell, I don't care if I won't have them for 14 days after the release or 3 months but I see no point in wiping them completely. There is nothing interesting in acquiring those to me, it is nothing but a tedious grind and waste of time to me and I don't see myself repeating it, nor any reason why I should ( as admin stated, there will always be differences in player skill and progression and thus the total wipe would serve no real purpose other than forcing those who progressed to grind again and delay the unavoidable imbalance ). Everyone who wants their character to be completely wiped is free to delete and recreate it, otherwise I agree with the OP in that all progress that was confirmed to not be subject to the wipe should be available in redeemables 15-30 days after the release ( or maybe later, I would even take a few months worth of a break ) but not wiped.

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1 hour ago, Pirate78 said:

That s*** better stay otherwise I won't be back. 

I think that’s the majority consensus. 

 

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I´d say a total wipe is the most interesting option. I know that grinding exp would be boring and annoying for some players (I include myself there) but I remember the early days of 2016 when everyone was focused on leveling up in order to improve their RVR fleet quality. That gave the game a really great competition between nations which could improve the early game.

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Truth is that the "equal start" for everyone won't be equal anoymore after 1-2 weeks. Vets will start sailing SOLs while rookie will still sail snows. Anolytics idea is not so bad.

About the ship knowgledge... Once I learn after 100h of using the ship how to use it... Does my "knowledge" vanish after the wipe? Theoretical question, it's like telling someone who knows how to walk, to learn again how to walk. 

People that love clean start just reset your accounts and everyone will be happy. Hethwill and some more do it all the time, look how happy they are and everyone else as it does no harm to anyone else. Even if we get clean start, I promise such Yordi or Privateer or Ram Dinark will own 10x than these demanding equal start. If that happens, you will just get more frustrated and unhappy customers.

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12 minutes ago, William Death said:

Do we honestly believe there will be a ton of "new" players right after release?

"New Players" are the main scapegoat when it comes to this topic and as admin pointed out already, there will always be new players and thus by this logic we would always need new wipes. I don't know what it is that excites many about total wipe ( some of them surely simply did not make any effort to collect ship knowlegde or books and feel that this laziness should be rewarded after the release ) but many probably enjoy the idea of starting completely fresh and I do agree in that it is enjoyable for a month or so maximum but then we are back to the same old.

So in this regard I agree with the OP. Simply withhold all saved progress for a while after release, so we get this fresh start and "everyone starts over" feeling that many want but make it available in redeemables after that period, so people can choose whether or not they want it back. Seems like the best compromise.

Personally I think its a mere charade. The DLC's ( that I am a supporter of ) create more imbalance between new players without them and any other players owning them, than xp, ship knowledge or books.

New players will mainly profit from veterans having time to tend to them and help them, instead of having to repeat the grind they have already been through. Does anyone think a new player in gold ship with all top knowledge books and 10 slots will have a more realistic chance against Ram Dinark, Captain Reverse or Banished even if they fight with 0 books and 0 xp against the new guy ? Don't be ridiculous, guys.

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It’s a hard question with no easy answer.

My main PC took an age to get to 50 craft, but the ALTs not so much. I understood the mechanic. On day ONE if your main PC and ALTs have Rear Admiral and 50 Craft don’t you think that’s an over whelming advantage for an already veteran player? Think about it...

You have in all fairness supported the Game and toiled the grind ladder though...

 

But, how long would it take @Norfolk nChance or @Anolytic or @PG Monkeyor @Wraith from a standing start to get to the equivalent Rear Admiral and 50 Craft? My thinking is not very long at all compared to the new player.

It’s a question on Grind...

https://forum.game-labs.net/topic/20652-the-junkie-his-dealer…/

well you might remember this...

 

 

Here’s my thinking, we veterans need rewarding at launch. That reward needs to equally offset a complete flat start like everybody else. This money or whatever but not levelling...

 

Norfolk

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I don't feel like me as a player is entitled to keeping anything from the testing period of the game. I would gladly give up all my experience and unlocks in order to start this game at release properly on a fresh slate, out of respect for it being technically and feature wise, a completely new game from the one we got our experience playing in. A reward such as a special redeemable, or flag for early testers IMO would be appropriate

Edited by Slim McSauce
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Anolytic I think has the right idea in protecting new players from vets in SOL and decked out frigates, but I think this is the wrong way to do it.  His idea works great for the first 2 weeks, but what about new players after the 2 weeks.  What about new players currently?

Better protections overall for new players really need to be in place before launch.  Dynamic safe zones where new players are 100% totally safe, but are still flexible enough to allow new players to venture out and explore a bit....taste a little PVP, but not get completely thrown to the wolves.  Player progression quest lines or something similar would also be a good idea.  In essence we need starting areas.  

Regardless whether or not players are in bigger ships with fancy books, the PVPers will still beat up on the noobs starting day 1 to start collecting their marks and getting a leg up on PVP rewards.  New player protections built into the game need to be ready to go to handle the problem right out of the gate.  

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1 minute ago, Christendom said:

Anolytic I think has the right idea in protecting new players from vets in SOL and decked out frigates, but I think this is the wrong way to do it.  His idea works great for the first 2 weeks, but what about new players after the 2 weeks.  What about new players currently?

Better protections overall for new players really need to be in place before launch.  Dynamic safe zones where new players are 100% totally safe, but are still flexible enough to allow new players to venture out and explore a bit....taste a little PVP, but not get completely thrown to the wolves.  Player progression quest lines or something similar would also be a good idea.  In essence we need starting areas.  

Regardless whether or not players are in bigger ships with fancy books, the PVPers will still beat up on the noobs starting day 1 to start collecting their marks and getting a leg up on PVP rewards.  New player protections built into the game need to be ready to go to handle the problem right out of the gate.  

I agree 100% with Chris on this, and is why I've been arguing for tiered PvP-protected zones rather than "capital" and "reinforcement" zones for a long time. We should have large no-PvP tagging/joining zones around capitals.  Neighboring counties to those zones should have no-loss PvP (ships can be looted, but not permanently capped or sunk (ships are returned to their owner with mods/cannons intact, but nothing in the hold). And areas outside these two classes should be full-loot, feed-them-to-the-wolves PvP. 

Lower level missions, decreased production, restrictions in ship levels for crafting, and much higher taxes within these zones of protection should reflect the decrease in risk associated with them, and would encourage players eventually moving outside the zones for trading, crafting, and riskier PvE. But the relative safety of these zones would create the kiddie pool necessary for players to get their feet on the ground and then wet with a bit of PvP action without the risk of losing all their precious pixels right away.

 

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I think this is a really good compromise. Give a couple weeks before you're able to redeem the top tier gear we have accumulated. If vets want to just go on hiatus for a couples weeks, that's fine. That much less competition for the good ports. I don't doubt at all that the rest of us would have any issue taking on the AI in rushed frigates. 

Edited by Galt
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Personally I would have no problem with going through the ranks again, but grinding slots and hunting books again would be a real turn off for me.

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I would expand/adjust Anolytic's idea to a more dynamic system than usual GameLabs 0-1 approach. Have ranks/slots/exp unlock in time slowly instead of going from lowest to max. They will allow balanced and progressive change on the server.

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i'm not averse to a total wipe, far from it. I do wonder how many "brand new players " will start at release or will we get 10-15k ( a 15% of total sales so far ) of players who have already started during development.

Loads are waiting for release, not sure they will come back for anything right now, especially if they know they will lose it all.

 

If we're going to have a wipe then it probably needs to be all or nothing. Those good sailors, who know the ropes will adapt quicker than any day 1 noob

we shouldn't be thinking of us vets and us protecting our xp / slots but what will help new players from day 1. If that means a very level playing field, I am fine with it

Edited by Vizzini
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Fair wipe with easier access for those that already have progress:

What about if you for instance have 5 slots unlocked on herc, you start with 0 ship knowledge at release and when you unlock the first slot you unlock all 5 instead, that way you would have to grind 1 slot instead of all 5.

And if you have the Planking book as now you would have to tank the amount of percent damage the bonus gives for it to unlock, same as gunnery encyclopedia fire do 1000 hull penetration to unlock the book.

Think these kinds of approach would make it fair for both vets and new players, as it would be nearly as much grind for players already with the knowledge and at the same time they wouldn't have complete access from beginning

Edited by Wyy

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5 hours ago, Anolytic said:

But after 2 weeks, those old players who want to, can get the XP from their old characters back and jump right back up to their old rank.

So what would be the point of wasting my time for first 2 weeks...?

 

5 hours ago, Christendom said:

I really really really don’t want to grind ship slots again.  Max rank comes with time and I’m not particularly worried about that.  But yea f those ship slots.  

Wasn't there a mention, that this system won't really look like it it looks now in future?

 

2 hours ago, Christendom said:

Regardless whether or not players are in bigger ships with fancy books, the PVPers will still beat up on the noobs starting day 1 to start collecting their marks and getting a leg up on PVP rewards.  New player protections built into the game need to be ready to go to handle the problem right out of the gate.  

This!

There is no point in doing ANY wipes, if there will be no protection. 
Which would also require some re-adjustments for impossible nations, cause most of players will never read the description, and if they join a nation without any protection, there will be a lost cause quite quickly.

 

 

And something I've been saying all the time.

Don't think about Yourself guys. We all need to sacrifice a bit, to get what we all want to get - full servers.

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Think of the newcomers.

This is the subject to think about them.

Not on other "subjects" when "think of the newcomers" isn't about them.

This subject entirely is.

 

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