Total Wipe at Release - a suggestion

[Anolytic]

So I’ve been thinking about the announced, far-into-the-future, release wipe. It is far too early to worry about wipes, but the announcement/update form devs on how it might go about, sparked an interesting debate.

There are those, who have played this game for long, who don’t want to see their efforts go to «waste». And there are those who want to see a completely clean slate for new players coming into the game at release, and old players as well. I find myself mostly in the latter camp with the «purists», and yet I do appreciate the prospect of getting to keep at least my hard earned XP post release.

 

I remember the previous wipes. There was something novel about everyone starting in basic cutters. About the arms race that followed to grind to max rank and crafting rank 50. To build the biggest ships. The game was pure right after the wipe. Everyone was on equal footing (except for how much free time they had). New players could catch up to veteran players, when everyone started the race from the same position (discounting skill and experience).

 

My suggestion to preserve the integrity of the wipe, is to have 1-2 weeks after release, where the slate is wiped completely clean. Where everybody is on equal footing that start playing on day 1 after the game is launched. 

To please old and returning players, give all the stuff we are supposed to preserve, as one big redeemable package. Be it XP, craft-XP, Ship-XP and skillbooks included if it may. 

But lock those redeemables down for the first 7 or 14 days after release. 

For the first 14 days, everyone starts as kadet/ensign/midshipman/thief. 

But after 2 weeks, those old players who want to, can get the XP from their old characters back and jump right back up to their old rank.

[PG Monkey]

I would prefer a total wipe..4 years playing experience is a big enough advantage over new players

[Audacious]

Good enough with me, but I want my max rank at the start. 

Edited January 28, 2019 by Pirate78

[Custard]

Agree with PG Monkey, I am not in favour of us keeping anything the experience gained in testing is advantage enough

[Christendom]

I really really really don’t want to grind ship slots again.  Max rank comes with time and I’m not particularly worried about that.  But yea f those ship slots.  

 

[Audacious]

3 minutes ago, Christendom said:

I really really really don’t want to grind ship slots again.  Max rank comes with time and I’m not particularly worried about that.  But yea f those ship slots.  

 

That s*** better stay otherwise I won't be back. 

[Swifty08]

Anyone who would like to start over, can create a new account. Then everyone can do what they want

Edited January 28, 2019 by Swifty08

[William Death]

Do we honestly believe there will be a ton of "new" players right after release? Is game release some sort of magical time where everyone all of a sudden decides to buy and play a game? Will the game be massively different than it is a month before release? Have not the majority of players who will buy and actually play (I mean take the time to achieve max rank and learn to fight passably well) already bought and played Naval Action? I just don't think there'll be a massive influx of new players that everyone seems to be counting on. Rather, I think it'll be mostly old players returning to the game to see if it has become worth their time again. 

And at any rate, what is the difference between a new player coming into the game 3 months after release and dealing with vets who have earned good stuff; vs a new player coming into the game at release and dealing with vets who already have good stuff? It is literally the same experience for that player.

 

35 minutes ago, Swifty08 said:

Anyone who would like to start over, can create a new account. Then everyone can do what they want

This exactly^. Go roleplay a new pirate in the Caribbean if you enjoy that. Start from scratch and pillage and plunder your way to the top. I've done it already please don't ask me to do it again. I didn't enjoy parts of the grind. If other players do and want to play that way then so be it. 

 

42 minutes ago, Christendom said:

I really really really don’t want to grind ship slots again.  Max rank comes with time and I’m not particularly worried about that.  But yea f those ship slots.

+1 ships slot grind is the worst.

Wipe if we must, but let us keep all types of XP. Especially ship XP. That is definitely one of the worst parts of Naval Action for me. Its such a silly and unnecessary feature to have. It hides necessary* parts of the game (upgrades) behind a wall of grind. I've done it for all the ships that matter, I don't want to do it again. 

*Someone is surely going to come along and say how you don't need ship slots to do anything. Kindly stuff it.   Everyone knows if you don't have at least 3-4 regular upgrade (skillbook) slots unlocked your ship is gimped from battle start. Thanks to gear meta (another discussion for another time).

[Njord]

36 minutes ago, Christendom said:

I really really really don’t want to grind ship slots again.  Max rank comes with time and I’m not particularly worried about that.  But yea f those ship slots.

Ship slots and learned books is my concern aswell, I don't care if I won't have them for 14 days after the release or 3 months but I see no point in wiping them completely. There is nothing interesting in acquiring those to me, it is nothing but a tedious grind and waste of time to me and I don't see myself repeating it, nor any reason why I should ( as admin stated, there will always be differences in player skill and progression and thus the total wipe would serve no real purpose other than forcing those who progressed to grind again and delay the unavoidable imbalance ). Everyone who wants their character to be completely wiped is free to delete and recreate it, otherwise I agree with the OP in that all progress that was confirmed to not be subject to the wipe should be available in redeemables 15-30 days after the release ( or maybe later, I would even take a few months worth of a break ) but not wiped.

[Pablo Frias]

I´d say a total wipe is the most interesting option. I know that grinding exp would be boring and annoying for some players (I include myself there) but I remember the early days of 2016 when everyone was focused on leveling up in order to improve their RVR fleet quality. That gave the game a really great competition between nations which could improve the early game.

[Njord]

12 minutes ago, William Death said:

Do we honestly believe there will be a ton of "new" players right after release?

"New Players" are the main scapegoat when it comes to this topic and as admin pointed out already, there will always be new players and thus by this logic we would always need new wipes. I don't know what it is that excites many about total wipe ( some of them surely simply did not make any effort to collect ship knowlegde or books and feel that this laziness should be rewarded after the release ) but many probably enjoy the idea of starting completely fresh and I do agree in that it is enjoyable for a month or so maximum but then we are back to the same old.

So in this regard I agree with the OP. Simply withhold all saved progress for a while after release, so we get this fresh start and "everyone starts over" feeling that many want but make it available in redeemables after that period, so people can choose whether or not they want it back. Seems like the best compromise.

Personally I think its a mere charade. The DLC's ( that I am a supporter of ) create more imbalance between new players without them and any other players owning them, than xp, ship knowledge or books.

New players will mainly profit from veterans having time to tend to them and help them, instead of having to repeat the grind they have already been through. Does anyone think a new player in gold ship with all top knowledge books and 10 slots will have a more realistic chance against Ram Dinark, Captain Reverse or Banished even if they fight with 0 books and 0 xp against the new guy ? Don't be ridiculous, guys.

[Norfolk nChance]

It’s a hard question with no easy answer.

My main PC took an age to get to 50 craft, but the ALTs not so much. I understood the mechanic. On day ONE if your main PC and ALTs have Rear Admiral and 50 Craft don’t you think that’s an over whelming advantage for an already veteran player? Think about it...

You have in all fairness supported the Game and toiled the grind ladder though...

 

But, how long would it take @Norfolk nChance or @Anolytic or @PG Monkeyor @Wraith from a standing start to get to the equivalent Rear Admiral and 50 Craft? My thinking is not very long at all compared to the new player.

It’s a question on Grind...

https://forum.game-labs.net/topic/20652-the-junkie-his-dealer…/

well you might remember this...

 

 

Here’s my thinking, we veterans need rewarding at launch. That reward needs to equally offset a complete flat start like everybody else. This money or whatever but not levelling...

 

Norfolk

[Slim McSauce]

I don't feel like me as a player is entitled to keeping anything from the testing period of the game. I would gladly give up all my experience and unlocks in order to start this game at release properly on a fresh slate, out of respect for it being technically and feature wise, a completely new game from the one we got our experience playing in. A reward such as a special redeemable, or flag for early testers IMO would be appropriate

Edited January 28, 2019 by Slim McSauce

[Christendom]

Anolytic I think has the right idea in protecting new players from vets in SOL and decked out frigates, but I think this is the wrong way to do it.  His idea works great for the first 2 weeks, but what about new players after the 2 weeks.  What about new players currently?

Better protections overall for new players really need to be in place before launch.  Dynamic safe zones where new players are 100% totally safe, but are still flexible enough to allow new players to venture out and explore a bit....taste a little PVP, but not get completely thrown to the wolves.  Player progression quest lines or something similar would also be a good idea.  In essence we need starting areas.  

Regardless whether or not players are in bigger ships with fancy books, the PVPers will still beat up on the noobs starting day 1 to start collecting their marks and getting a leg up on PVP rewards.  New player protections built into the game need to be ready to go to handle the problem right out of the gate.  

[Galt]

I think this is a really good compromise. Give a couple weeks before you're able to redeem the top tier gear we have accumulated. If vets want to just go on hiatus for a couples weeks, that's fine. That much less competition for the good ports. I don't doubt at all that the rest of us would have any issue taking on the AI in rushed frigates. 

Edited January 28, 2019 by Galt

[Archaos]

Personally I would have no problem with going through the ranks again, but grinding slots and hunting books again would be a real turn off for me.

[Vizzini]

i'm not averse to a total wipe, far from it. I do wonder how many "brand new players " will start at release or will we get 10-15k ( a 15% of total sales so far ) of players who have already started during development.

Loads are waiting for release, not sure they will come back for anything right now, especially if they know they will lose it all.

 

If we're going to have a wipe then it probably needs to be all or nothing. Those good sailors, who know the ropes will adapt quicker than any day 1 noob

we shouldn't be thinking of us vets and us protecting our xp / slots but what will help new players from day 1. If that means a very level playing field, I am fine with it

Edited January 28, 2019 by Vizzini
spelling

[Guest]

Fair wipe with easier access for those that already have progress:

What about if you for instance have 5 slots unlocked on herc, you start with 0 ship knowledge at release and when you unlock the first slot you unlock all 5 instead, that way you would have to grind 1 slot instead of all 5.

And if you have the Planking book as now you would have to tank the amount of percent damage the bonus gives for it to unlock, same as gunnery encyclopedia fire do 1000 hull penetration to unlock the book.

Think these kinds of approach would make it fair for both vets and new players, as it would be nearly as much grind for players already with the knowledge and at the same time they wouldn't have complete access from beginning

Edited January 28, 2019 by Guest

[OjK]

5 hours ago, Anolytic said:

But after 2 weeks, those old players who want to, can get the XP from their old characters back and jump right back up to their old rank.

So what would be the point of wasting my time for first 2 weeks...?

 

5 hours ago, Christendom said:

I really really really don’t want to grind ship slots again.  Max rank comes with time and I’m not particularly worried about that.  But yea f those ship slots.  

Wasn't there a mention, that this system won't really look like it it looks now in future?

 

2 hours ago, Christendom said:

Regardless whether or not players are in bigger ships with fancy books, the PVPers will still beat up on the noobs starting day 1 to start collecting their marks and getting a leg up on PVP rewards.  New player protections built into the game need to be ready to go to handle the problem right out of the gate.  

This!

There is no point in doing ANY wipes, if there will be no protection. 
Which would also require some re-adjustments for impossible nations, cause most of players will never read the description, and if they join a nation without any protection, there will be a lost cause quite quickly.

 

 

And something I've been saying all the time.

Don't think about Yourself guys. We all need to sacrifice a bit, to get what we all want to get - full servers.

[Hethwill]

Think of the newcomers.

This is the subject to think about them.

Not on other "subjects" when "think of the newcomers" isn't about them.

This subject entirely is.

 

[Angus MacDuff]

Wipe it all.  Its easy to come back.  I think everyone has forgotten that anyone who has done the final exam will start at M&C rank anyway.

[Norfolk nChance]

Originally the PCs most valued assets were CRAFT then RANK level. Now it’s Ship knowledge slots and Book skills. If I’m wrong please correct me.

A total wipe would I believe attract the older veterans back to “give it a go” with a level playing field.

For the Newbie, knowledge of Veterans CRAFT, Rank, Ship or Book skills carrying over would be an immediate turn-off. Imagine the bollocks on STEAM...!

However, it’s a tad harsh on the current live Vets. Would this idea work...

 

The Value Weighted Veteran

Each ship slot would have a Doubloon or Cash value. A L’O third slot more than a Surprise one etc. Next Each skill book would have a cash value, some more than others. Combined, would again gain a synergy bonus...

Day ONE, the Vet PC like the Newbie starts Rank1, Craft0. However, he’d have a Redeemable tab.

1.       1. Yacht (if early adopter)

2.       2. DLC purchased

3.       3. First Doubloon amount equal to total Ship slots OPENED

4.       4. Second Doubloon amount equal to total Skill books used

Maybe add a CRAFT bonus also.

 

This puts everybody on a level playing field. The problem with a delayed or time release for books or slots is it devalues the NEW economy. Turning them into cash instead will kickstart the early days of the Caribbean...

The vets reforming a clan, finding a base building out the infrastructure. You get the idea. Early ‘ganking’ would be hard and @Christendom idea would come into play.

Wiping just Rank and Craft is not enough, both slots and books must also go. Otherwise the new universe makes no sense. Turning them into CASH, would give a big boost to the early economy. Remember you with 3,000hrs game time experience are now let loose on a ONE-day old Universe.

The Newbie’s can’t complain. Cash to them very early on is useless in such large amounts.

 

Not sure if it would work...

 

N.

[Christoph]

I think we lost many players with that boring ship leveling. We need the old system back. 

 

Wipe only money and Resourcen. Thats the best. 

When i have to grind the ships again i will Stop playing 

[Lord Gud]

It depends on if the developers advertise the game otherwise what's the point of wiping if the majority of the players aren't new? If 30-40% of the population are old players then a full wipe could be considered other than that there is no benefit. I personally do not like to grind ship slots or books even in this current patch and you're telling me I would have to restart to give a few new players some imaginary advantage over someone who has played for multiple years? New players will get wrecked no matter what you do because it takes more than books to get good.

[Hullabaloo]

I was also in the 'wipe everything' camp initially but as someone said above, the 'level playing field' will only be level for a short while anyway, and the more active players will soon go back to having a knowledge slot/book advantage and new players that come in later will always be behind, so why bother making everyone grind again? That seems pointless to be now. Ship knowledge i'm not too bothered about, but the thought of all that PVEing again to get the RNG on rare books fills me with dread.

I agree that immediately after the last wipe was probably the most I enjoyed the game. It was fun watching people sailing in smaller ships and the initial clan arms race (although there were redeemable starter ships then and there was the ship tier system too and the clan arms race ended up with people losing xp cos of exploiting the victory mark system with fake PBs!). It's a nice idea. However, I wonder that if players know that in 2 weeks time they can get it all back anyway, would it be replicated? I would just take a break and come back after 2 weeks cos I'm lazy.