Water Discussion Continued (but for real this time)

[Galt]

I'm approaching this from a separate angle then; I am looking to the community to discuss this issue (between us) and figure out where we stand on the water mechanics. Love 'em? Hate 'em? Please elaborate on why you feel that the water could use some work or why it's fine the way it is. As I said in my last thread, I think it's important for the community to come to an agreement or at least properly understand the different viewpoints so that we can take our information to the devs and they can do with it what they wish. 

Previous post: 

Original Thread: 

 

[Hethwill]

Main interrogation being;

- from the development side of things, and without having to recode it, the water, is a new arrangement of colour palete possible without having to rebuild it all.

Water in NA is a game element and essential for the combat and synchronized for all participants, is the same tiny wave for everyone, not just for show of physix and eye candy.

[Galt]

15 minutes ago, Chevalier du Ethuville said:

Main interrogation being;

- from the development side of things, and without having to recode it, the water, is a new arrangement of colour palete possible without having to rebuild it all.

Water in NA is a game element and essential for the combat and synchronized for all participants, is the same tiny wave for everyone, not just for show of physix and eye candy.

So I would say that the color is kinda alright, more disparity in both the open world and out to sea would be nice. Something for more of a visual cue to determine how shallow the water actually is, and I would be ok if shallows played a more important role in battle instances close to shores (especially port battles.) Things like sand bars, tides, and currents would be amazing.  I think that would be a good step in the right direction without getting into anything "too technical."

Edited January 25, 2019 by Galt

[William Death]

Water graphics.... thats pretty low on my list of issues in Naval Action. I actually think the graphics are one of the best parts of Naval Action (disregarding the land and buildings). If devs want to upgrade it at some point, so be it. Right now I think there are more pressing issues like the way the combat mechanics do (or in our case, don't) mesh with the repair/damage model we currently have. 

Regarding how the ships interact with waves...feels pretty good/realistic to me. Having been on a smallish (~72 feet) wooden boat with a deep displacement hull (a trawler) in 2-6' seas, I can confirm the vessel rolls and pitches a fair bit as the sea size increases (the vessel barely notices 1-2' seas but begins to jump around more as the waves increase in height and steepness). In Naval Action, Lynx, Snow, and other similarly sized vessels behave similarly. But larger ships will laugh at such small waves. Naval Action feels this way to me. Ships like Victory or Bellona barely pitch or roll in choppy seas, only the groundswell is really noticed. Feels ok.

Here are Naval Action's graphics (fairly high/ultra settings, a few things tweaked down when I detected no noticeable difference in quality, I also have a reshade program applied):

Diana and Hercules showing some mercy to a new skipper (demasted, background) as the sun sinks sets and casts its warm glow over the waves: 

Victory sails into sunset on a relatively calm evening: 

Beating upwind at twilight, light chop: 

Santisima silhouetted against the sun on a choppy afternoon: 

A squadron begins to form lines and make way upwind on a slightly choppy afternoon

Ingermanland plows through the seas on a sunny day (slight haze over toward land): 

Finally, a comparsion with and without the reshade that I use:

Without (stock Naval Action, same graphics settings as the previous images):

Looks good, but I personally think the reshade I made for it looks better (personal preference) here it is, same ship, time, and graphics settings as this one above: 

 

Its all just my opinion, but I think those are some pretty nice graphics. If I had to list the (relatively minor) complaints I have with graphics, they'd be in this order:

• Hull damage graphics are very simple and rather poor. Just little wood-colored dots & small missing pieces. I seem to recall seeing a video where they shot a carronade at a replica hull and it looked something like that. But what about when 10, 20, 30+ shots all hit the same area? Surely there could be some large chunks of planking splintered away, gunports smashed in, etc. And add maybe some glowing embers and charred wood & soot-covered sails caused by fires. If all this is done correctly & to a precise enough level, we could adjust how much information is displayed to our enemies. Maybe instead of a perfectly-accurate HP bar, the enemy sees a simplified one with a few green/yellow/red dots, forcing captains to rely on their observational skills to determine how damaged an enemy is, and which side is his weak side. Till then, we need those HP bars because an enemy can be in good shape with a bunch of shot marks left over from a previous repair or bounced broadsides.
• Sea spray is not the best, it should be present anytime a wave slaps into the side of the hull, all around the bow wave, and a small amount around the rudder when turning.

So I can agree, Naval Action graphics could use some work, but I think there are more pressing matters to attend to. When everything is sorted out, maybe Devs will be able to improve the water and damage graphics. 

Now, if you'd suggested re-adding storms, I'd be all for that. Storms in battle (actual rough seas, lightning, thunder, driving rain, etc...that was awesome). 

[Slim McSauce]

I liked the old water from sea trials the best. It has a really sheen look to it, you always saw a clean reflection of your ship and the enemies ship at a distance. 
The color was a bit better too imo.

[HachiRoku]

water physics are completely irrelevant to this game or how alive a game world feels in general. If the devs were to do anything for a naval action 2 I would say dolphins, whales, sharks etc are 10 times more important than water physics.  The world is a barren wasteland. Better physics will not change that. Marine wildlife would help more but those things are expensive to do. Btw don't forget that really nice water physics require a lot of computing power. 

[Hethwill]

I dislike the glassy feel some seem to enjoy.

Kind of like how we have it now, way more close to this

 

[HachiRoku]

21 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

I liked the old water from sea trials the best. It has a really sheen look to it, you always saw a clean reflection of your ship and the enemies ship at a distance. 
The color was a bit better too imo.

You prefer it because you did not spend 1000 hours looking for content in sea trials. You are just sick of the "new" visuals.

[Slim McSauce]

3 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

You prefer it because you did not spend 1000 hours looking for content in sea trials. You are just sick of the "new" visuals.

I'm sick of lack of content, I think the old calmer seas would work with the old light/medium/heavy winds idea that was suppose to balance larger ships with smaller ones.

[Capn Rocko]

The water looks fine but perhaps it would be different shades of blue in different parts of the Caribbean? 

My biggest gripe is the OW sailing wave size/scaling. Something isn't right, it's like watching a ski boat go 50 mph across a calm lake. Not to mention that most ships sit too high in the water with their hulls exposed in OW. Surely something could be done to make OW sailing look better. After all, players spend most of their game time watching their ship sail in OW. 

[Galt]

I mean, my focus wasn't so much on the graphics of the water, but instead on how ships interact with it. 5th rates have a bit of interference but anything bigger than that feels like you're just skidding around on ice. Leeway was fantastic, now lets see some bigger waves when the weather calls for it and make 1st rates feel like the giants they are. 

 

[Vernon Merrill]

Ship physics on the OW got a bit borked when people bitched about the speed of ships.  When they increased OW speed by 20%, the “bobbing” motion decreased.  Again, we shoot ourselves in the foot. 

[HachiRoku]

5 hours ago, Slim McSauce said:

I'm sick of lack of content, I think the old calmer seas would work with the old light/medium/heavy winds idea that was suppose to balance larger ships with smaller ones.

Stop waiting for some magical patch to change that. 

[Hethwill]

Thread is about Water and Environment.

Offtopic removed.

 

[Marquis de la Fayette]

Hello gentlemen,

Concerning the sea:

(i) In OW, nothing to say about colors and movement. By cons, DEV should add a little life ... Some dolphins, or whales. It does not matter, just create a little animation.

(ii) In combat:
. the essential is the interaction of the movement of the sea with the boat that plays in the maneuvers, the precision of the shots, etc.
. The spray will have to be more numerous around the boat according to the speed.
. The boat should be a little more sensitive to the movements of the sea.

La Fayette