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Testbed Feedback - Battle UI, Localization, Patrols, Delivery quests

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Main issue with a new build is that fights are too short and that different classes of ships can't fight each other. Both lead to bad battle to OW ratio and battle to crafting cost ratio. 

 

Good change in new mechanic is better noob friendliness in fights,but right now it doesn't outweigh the costs. 

@admin maybe you could use morale to give big ships advantage, but in the same time don't block fights of ships in different classes by making them hopeless. 

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26 minutes ago, Sir Loorkon said:

I can not agree. Penetration was tuned good before. If pen increases, armor should increase to. The angle should be important, otherwise it only would matter to have more hp because you can pen at nearly every angle with some cannons and that would be really boring. I am fine with the new damage system because it is more realistic and makes it easier for average captains in big ships (and might increase the player base) but there should be some skill based mechanics, too. Otherwise we would be in danger to get a „gear matters all“ game: The one with best gear and most hp and bigger cannons wins (Some people like Slim believed that we had that before. Wrong.) 

@admin I like it that you are tuning fast this time. Its the core of the game. I also appreciate that you are considering to increase mast strenth to make dismasting (except by raking) harder. To many fights are won by that mechanic and it is very frustrating for average players.

On testbed you need to be a pro to bounce stuff not like on live server where most shots bounce when slightly angled. Thats why I said for the first time it felt right. Sure fights should be longer but not because everything bounce. It should be longer because HP pool is bigger.

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15 minutes ago, z4ys said:

On testbed you need to be a pro to bounce stuff not like on live server where most shots bounce when slightly angled. Thats why I said for the first time it felt right. Sure fights should be longer but not because everything bounce. It should be longer because HP pool is bigger.

I’d push back on this a little bit. The skill gap between pro and noob is already a gaping chasm with the old model. We really shouldn’t be making the combat any more complex or skill influenced if we want new and casual players to fill the bottom of the food pyramid for a sustainably long period of time.

After playing a couple days with it, I honestly hate the new damage model and what it will do for the game meta. It might make you feel good for a few battles as a god in a first rate, but like any cheat in any game it cheapens the experience. It shortens the longevity of your time in any game. In the absence of a huge amount of work to overhaul the balance across ships and classes there will be three main races: to Niagara, then to Trinc/Indefatigable, then to line ships. Nothing else that’s player crafted is worth sailing. And it took three years to get us to some semblance of balance before, because it’s hard, and requires more than just twiddling the knobs! Without hard work and new content we’ll just have a race to the top gunned ships and that will be it. There will be no room for Pagan Petes or true ROVER play. Solo hunting will take place even less than it does now. Gang play with line ships will be the norm for any player that can crew them, etc. 

By asking for more “realism” you’ve killed off game play diversity and to properly balance it you’ll have to go through just as many unrealistic machinations as you had before and still probably end up with a more new player and casual unfriendly game. In my opinion the future isn’t bright. 

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3 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I’d push back on this a little bit. The skill gap between pro and noob is already a gaping chasm with the old model. We really shouldn’t be making the combat any more complex or skill influenced if we want new and casual players to fill the bottom of the food pyramid for a sustainably long period of time.

After playing a couple days with it, I honestly hate the new damage model and what it will do for the game meta. It might make you feel good for a few battles as a god in a first rate, but like any cheat in any game it cheapens the experience. It shortens the longevity of your time in any game. In the absence of a huge amount of work to overhaul the balance across ships and classes there will be three main races: to Niagara, then to Trinc/Indefatigable, then to line ships. Nothing else that’s player crafted is worth sailing. And it took three years to get us to some semblance of balance before, because it’s hard, and requires more than just twiddling the knobs! Without hard work and new content we’ll just have a race to the top gunned ships and that will be it. There will be no room for Pagan Petes or true ROVER play. Solo hunting will take place even less than it does now. Gang play with line ships will be the norm for any player that can crew them, etc. 

By asking for more “realism” you’ve killed off game play diversity and to properly balance it you’ll have to go through just as many unrealistic machinations as you had before and still probably end up with a more new player and casual unfriendly game. In my opinion the future isn’t bright. 

The new damage model is not finished yet. It has just been deployed 48 hours ago. I dont fully like it either at the moment but it can solve several non-working things if tune properly.

Why trinc and not endymion? Why trinc and not diana? Why not connie? You said niagara for shallow waters when there is also other ships as surprise that can go in there and have more firepower, hp and thickness. It is hard to know which will be the new meta until we fully test it.

 

And most important, new players will finally enjoy ranking up and be able to sail a ship that has overally more survavility than the one they had before.

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19 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

And most important, new players will finally enjoy ranking up and be able to sail a ship that has overally more survavility than the one they had before.

They always could!  That's why I'm completely flummoxed at the hand-wringing and machinations to reinvent the balance wheel of the game at this point instead of focusing on content and getting the damn game out the door...

Line ships are mid- to late-game content and currently they overlap with RvR which is clan-based end-game content, which makes complete sense. As for survivability, do you currently want to go out and solo hunt in a line ship?  Other than fast Bellonas or Wasas, perhaps, the answer is "rarely" simply because they're not viable against two or more smaller ships. And what people seem to miss is that this is actually desirable in the game.  Line ships are mid- to end-game content, and in a multiplayer game they shouldn't be the province of the solo player! Encouraging line ships as multiplayer content is important because it increases the diversity of ships that people PvP with in solo contexts. Hunting in groups vs. hunting solo are both viable options now, and those entail different ship choices meaning that there currently is still a lot of utility in 4th-6th rates.

But under the new damage model line ships will be the only thing worth sailing outside of the shallows. And you're right, I continually block out that Surprise is now considered a "shallow" ship, so yes, its carronade broadside weight obviates any need for players to bother with 6th rates at all under the new model! 🙄 As far as why Trinc over Endy? It depends on whether you want to run or chase... lol :) Trinc has a heavier carro loadout so naturally will be better than the Endy, and with four front chasers it's always the hunters choice.

Anyway, my point stands that even in its newly implemented state, #untuned as it is, that this is a path that will yield to much less diversity in ship choices and game play. Redeveloping the damage model in this way limits the play styles that are viable for open world PvP, and hits the reset button on a long trajectory of ship development and balancing. Clearly, blowing shit up and rebuilding it is more fun to work on by the dev's than doing the hard work of content development and polish. But it's the latter that this game desperately needs to get to release state and which will retain new and casual players.  

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On 2/9/2019 at 6:21 AM, admin said:

What is supposed to happen with Surprise after a HMS Victory broadside in your mental historical pattern/model?

 

Since you asked I will explain my thoughts behind my posts (that mental is meant in a totalyl harmless way I assume ;) ). Of course it is just my opinion and I can't prove them with any studies, hard numbers and just approach this by my logic and general knowledge.

This table shows the diameters of the cannonballs we use (I took them from this website https://www.arc.id.au/Cannonballs.html).

GvAlQEx.jpg

Most of us also now the various videos on youtube about modern tests of naval cannons. For example the experiment with the part of a Niagara hull that gets shot by 12 lb, 24 lb and 32 lb carronades and the Test of the 24 lb long gun of the Vasa. They show what kind of damage is done to the hull and more importantly what happens after penetration inside the ship.

The link to the Niagara video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGM6AlwjGS0

Those balls don't explode. They make holes at varying sizes mostly depending on velocity at time of the impact. Some are remarkable clean, some break out larger parts. All in all the important is what happens at the exit hole and what and where they hit.

 

One broadside of a Victory (no carronades) shoots 16 x 42 lb, 15 x 24 lb and 22 x 12 lb cannon balls. At the moment one broadside of a Victory to the hull above water is enough to sink small frigates and sometimes also the medium ones if the majority of the shots connect. And that for me is simply not comprehensible. That's where I asked what kind of damage is done by those 53 solid cannonballs of different size that causes a fairly big wooden sail ship to be totally destroyed and sink without even a chance. That is where I asked the question of what we understand as Hull HP and cannonball damage and how they should relate to each other. That's also the point where I questioned the use of the term "historical" and "realistic" because they are thrown around here?

Usually the example of the frigate La Sérieuse comes into play at this point to validate the current gameplay on the testbed. And then I simply said that we don't know in detail what happend to her. At least I don't. I couldn't find a really detailed source and have no book about the battle of the Nile to search for more. Maybe someone could help out here. The best I could find is that the frigate was heavily damaged, disabled and driftend onto a shoal. Then the next day it was scuttled by the french to avoid capture by the british. It is also highly questionable if we should take this particular example as the norm.

A broadside of a first rate to a frigate is devastating and it should be. I totally agree with that. It is devastating because it is simply a huge amount of metal that enters the ship all at once with all the resulting consequences to the crew, cannons, everything that has anything to do with the rigging, modules etc but not in a way that immediately completely negates the ability of the ship to float and hold itself together. 

I said that I think this is a step into the right direction and I appreciate that we can test this on the testbed. But it needs a lot of tuning.

 

Just two examples. Excuse the horrifying graphic settings :D

This is what just three Trincomalee broadsides (32 lb carronades and 18 lb longs) do to a Cerberus, a light 5th rate.

q4scgZl.jpg

And this happens to a snow after 25 hull hits from a Trinc (full 32 lb carronade loadout) 2 and a half minutes into the battle. Nothing left and completely dismasted.

NTK5fUx.jpg

Sure. Big frigate against a smaller frigate and a small 6th rate. But seriously guys. This is way over the top.

 

 

On 2/9/2019 at 7:15 AM, Intrepido said:

If a first rate can have a good tag against a frigate then the captain on the frigate is pretty bad.

Normally it is the frigate captain who does the tag, often behind the lineship to begin the sternrakes easily.

And? Don't we have bad or new players? They should suffer extremely for being just that? Besides this doesn't only relate to first rate vs frigate. As the pictures above show.

 

On 2/9/2019 at 12:50 PM, admin said:

Model requires tuning but we are not coming back. A light 5th rate (like hercules or surprise) should be 1-2 shotted by a 3rd rate. Or devastated losing most combat capabilities. 

Like mentioned above. Those ships can be 2 - 3 shotted atm by ships in their own class.

 

Edited by Cecil Selous
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On 2/9/2019 at 6:00 AM, Intrepido said:

Please, follow my advise.

Tune down (-15%) a bit the penetration and damage values cause dimasting is very very easy and a broadside should wreck a frigate (lose full side bar and a bit of structure) but not directly sink it or dimast it completely. It is too much at the moment.

Perhaps a decrease of accuracy will help against dimasting too without compromising much.

So I did a test of my crafters Vict that was Teak/WO with Elephant and I had the mod witch gives you more bow/stern thickness on it and the Naval Structure for thickness.  My cannons where 42 mediums, 24 longs, 12 meds (I would of ran longs here but none on test) and 42 carros.  I took down that wasa in about 3 1/2 (two was double ball) broad sides.   But this is what all the the other ships did to me during that time.  Had a buggy Bellona going in reverse 4 knots (That what most of the port structure I lost was from, the Wasa was on my Starbord side).  While I took to running to do a repair I had another wasa on my side but most of the AI keep a good long distance so I couldn't get good shots on them.  Lets just say I had one ship almost sunk and another half way there when I finaly went under.   So folks thinking SOL's will be super fleets remember numebrs will prob always win unless they players are stupid.  How I could of dictated this battle and won would of been I had to string the AI out one by one and take them on like that much as a good skill player would do against that many players.  So if you get revenge ganked in front of a capital it's not going to be auto win for you if your sitting in a 1st rate.

4AA73CFC290EC910BB40C3BC309376555EA3F818

For those saying just use carros, remember if it's a bigger ship you have to get close, every thing pens under 250m pretty much, so if your going to try to get next to that big ship with those carros your going to loose unless your another SOL that can take a few hits.

I also want to add but this was prob the Bow/stern mod and the teak of the ship, I didn't take on water until I was down to two structure bars.  So your not going to auto sink and I didn't loose any of my Mast. 

Now I'll add when I was hitting 5/6th rate fleets the light frigats would pretty much get two shotted with my 24/24/12/12 mediums set up.   Indefatable was the biggest ship and it took about three broad sides to sink, while surprises would be one broad side and a deck or two reload to finish them off.   Which means these smaller ships need to keep to the stern and not take broad sides.

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20 hours ago, Cabral said:

 Maybe the problem is not the heavy damage the cannons have on testbed, the damage is not far from real life damage. The problem is the extreme accuracy of the cannons, nerf the stabilizers and make use of battlesails for a stable gun platform. We get realistic turnrates and battles will last longer than 5 mins.

There should be a reason we use battle sails over anything else, I say make guns less accruate at full sails (remove the stupid laser stern guns).  Maybe give ships a bit more structure HP or mast HP so they don't come down so fast.  I'm sorry if a 5th rate or below took a full 1st rate broad side to the mast it/they should come down.  

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Another Battle:

 

Victory vs Santisima.

You definitely can not tank with the bow or the stern anymore. I almost sank using the old tactics.

I was able to reload shock with doubleball one time at the begining, then I switched to always ball.

 

Surprisingly, a quite tough battle between ships of the same rate due to high firepower of the santisima.

 

Edited by Intrepido
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Am i the only one liking the new dm model a lot ?

Ofc if everyone test in redeemable double shot victory 1vs1 ai this can look easy, (as it is already on live server to be honest, just lineships have to see their hp / thickness balanced between each others)

 

This weekend, i've done a few pve test:

 

Pavel (tek/sab - nav struct - full med guns)  vs Bucc =

20190209121654-1.jpg

The Bucc firepower felt overwelming (felt like fighting a 1st rate), i fully destroyed one of his side, but sank before finishing him as i lost a mast and all my struct by stern shots while looking for a 4st repair. Fight was hard mostly as bucc turned so fast with cannons shooting at improbable angles.

Cerb (sabicu/cs- carro ) vs Hermione =

20190210135217-1.jpg

Fight was intense, raked her two to three times (seems like their is still a cap to the rake structure dmg ?) Battle was very intense, had to repair once, could have escape but i tried to finish her, her last broadside broke my mizen mast and 1 tic struct, but i landed my last broadside to finish her last struct tic, she lost her foremast, she sank faster than me (i think i had brake pumps) so battle ended as a win for me.

Cerb vs LeGrosVentre =

20190210151423-1.jpg

Raked her two times with no masts down, her broadsides left my port side with 1 & half tic, boarded her after she lost her mizzen mast by hull shots. I feel like a player in Lgv could represent a bigger threat.

Agga (wo/wo - nav struc - basic powder - long cannons) vs Agga =

20190210212853-1.jpg

Repaired once, closing in is harder as tanking with bow seems nerfed, the fight again ended as a close call

Agga vs Hermione =

20190210214347-1.jpg

Here a screen from my first broadside fully landed at start (from nearly this distance) She was helpless and i bounced most of her shots, pretty onesided yet again it's an IA, and that was not a 2 broadsides kill.

 

Agga vs Cerb+BellePoule+Essex=

20190210222552-1.jpg

Ended the Cerb in two broadsides i think, Got the BP by boarding (my fault, got stuck there too long with essex shooting at me) then sunk the essex quite simply, but boarding could have been lethal to me.

Edited by Baptiste Gallouédec
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Finally! People were usually testing out the 1st rates and the trinc, but nobody tried to go against other frigates, smaller frigates and the LGV. I'm probably the only player in this whole thread that actually started from a Basic Cutter fighting against Navy Brigs and Privateers and actually got to see the damage model working wonders on smaller ships. Now you came in with different experiences and feedback and I hope people appreciate it because it gives everybody a new and different perspective into the damage model itself. It's not every ship that gets a 1 broadside kill and definetly not the only ship that gives you a challenge when battleing few higher numbers or bigger ships than you.

People need to start testing out other methods and definetly get out of the trincomalee ~ 1st rate test outs that already got heard by admin and criticized on this thread.

Thank you.

Edited by Portuguese Privateer
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My feedback now :

1- As we can now fire broadsides when engaged in boarding, it's even more frustrating to win a boarding but our adversary sink before having time to explore it, it seems like i looted regular kill rewards, not boarding rewards.

2- Could we have a key binding for chase broadsides ? ( so we can use during boarding) i use the arrow from my keyboard personally so it could be easily done.

3- Please remove the last structure tic producing fatal flooding (full crew required at pumps faster than crew transfer): as now structure fall faster from broadsides, zero structure should still allow for a comeback by starting repairs or urgent repairs.

4- Prepared (& double shot) now seems to procure huge advantage vs someone without. PvE multiply the effect as we can control the tag and spawn side to side, in pvp it could be less decisive, yet, i think every one should start prepared and the perk removed. (maybe the same for doubles)

5- Mast should maybe fall from sails dmg too as they fall from structure. A <30% sails ship would have rigging too damaged to support full sails out without critical mast loss. Make it maybe just topmasts first etc.. => this could balance a little the solo lineship vs frig as frigs could focus on sails while trying to stay out of broadsides, a 1st rate may be able to one shot them, but with damaged masts, it will be more vulnerable to rake and frigates could escape.

 

 

And few suggestions :

 

A- Why not tie the masts strenght to the speed setting - Full sails being the weaker/stop the stronger/ battle sails the sweet spot.

  (Historically, captains while in combat reduced sails surface so less forces are applied to the masts, thus improving their resistance. And setting full sails on a damaged mast was very risky)

   The ideal would be that a player with damaged masts can preserve them longer before they fall by using battle sails mode. But if about to lose a mast while in battle sails, going full sails without repairing give great chances to loose a mast. But that last part may not be that interesting in term of gameplay as it can reduce chances to escape if damaged, but it also reduce the kite possibility from a ship damaged in the masts.

 

B- Rename ( or not )structure HP bar as "combat ability" (abstraction to represent ship structure + ability/will of the crew to pursue the fight), while keeping the same mecanism, just make that when the structure bar reach zero, the ship after a small countdown is marked as a kill/defeated & lootable but not capturable anymore (ship is reduced into an unrepairable/unrecovarable wreck ,  just lootable). Sails are folded and ship strike the colors, count as a kill like now and only sink if scuttled after loot, if not, it stay there so loot can be done whenever the survivors want.  

Last % of Combat ability / structure hp can maybe be regained by urgent repairs (captain using his charisma to motivate his crew into a last effort) just enough to pass from zero structure to enough to stop the flooding to death / countdown. If enough crew is then at pumps and no damages taken , ship can wait his next repair.

Edited by Baptiste Gallouédec
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Some points to consider before implementing the new damage for good:

1. AI will tottaly destroy new players - basicaly they wont have time to learn before they will hit the bottom.

2. AI single shot laser accuracy stern shooting will be even more annoying than it is now.

3. A strong group of players sailing SoL's will be able to tottaly destroy any enemy nation opposition if they wont show up in SoL's possibly blockading whole nation - smaller nations can have hard time playing the game.

4. If somehow nation A wont be as succesfull in farming mats/dubloons than nation B, they may be easily defeated by nation B using superior ships.

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Some randon thoughts:

-I believe 50% more damage for double ball is a bit too much. 35% would be more reasonable.

-Im making reload shocks too often, even if Im using normal ball. Sometimes I inflict 1.5 bar damage and it produces reload shock.

-Structure bar is too easy to damage. Too many things affect structure bar. I sank one ship with almost full hp on the sides. It just doesnt feel right.

-Really worried about the average lenght of the battles. The extra everything (dps and pen) makes quite hard to position your ship to tank effectively so you will be eating broadsides all day. 

-We still have the laser cannons in the stern. With the extra damage it is even more of a small issue now.

-Too much depency on hp and dps will make a very specific new meta. Which is not bad but I believe there should be more possible options. 

-The battles of SoL against frigates looks ok in my book. But against ships of the same rate it feels like just a reloading and stack hp game. While reloading was historically important I believe the tanking based also on thickness should be a valid option again. Stack hp modules is easy but angling correctly is a skill that should be still present in big SoL engagements.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Intrepido
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5 hours ago, Intrepido said:

Another Battle:

 

Victory vs Santisima.

You definitely can not tank with the bow or the stern anymore. I almost sank using the old tactics.

I was able to reload shock with doubleball one time at the begining, then I switched to always ball.

 

Surprisingly, a quite tough battle between ships of the same rate due to high firepower of the santisima.

 

On my last char to do the 25 kills I put that Bow/Stern mod on my ship that pretty much puts them at the same armor rating as the sides.  It honestly made a big diffrence then when I played the more tanked out builds of LO/WO or CAR/WO compared to the Teak/Wo with Elephant.....It felt like i wasn't looosing so much crew and structure to random bow/stern hits cause some would actually bounce.

I haven't done a true 1st rate vs 1st rate fight, was planing to do that with two alts to see how they handle as AI isn't always the most predictable cause we don't know the build of AI ships.

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19 hours ago, admin said:

Mast thickness is not updated on the test bed (uses old parameters) and hull as well. It will be hotfixed on monday, after data review. We will tune the thickness for ships which will update the mast to all distances and values. We are even thinking of increasing mast hp a bit which will reduce mast sniping even to lower level than on current live servers making it so that new system is preferring the demasting through rakes.


The increased speed commented on by @OjK is caused by change of structure damage calculations

Previously structure was damaged ONLY if your planking was low. Creating cases where you had low planking on both sides but almost full structure
we tuned it - because structure IS planting + frame, we start to damaging it early, Thats why battles are 20-30% faster (if you shoot into correct places). To bring them back couple of options exist and we will post them on monday.

 

Sorry I must have missed a lot, can someone just in couple of words explain me what this new system is? Thanks in advance

 

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16 hours ago, Cecil Selous said:

 

Since you asked I will explain my thoughts behind my posts (that mental is meant in a totalyl harmless way I assume ;) ). Of course it is just my opinion and I can't prove them with any studies, hard numbers and just approach this by my logic and general knowledge.

This table shows the diameters of the cannonballs we use (I took them from this website https://www.arc.id.au/Cannonballs.html).

GvAlQEx.jpg

Most of us also now the various videos on youtube about modern tests of naval cannons. For example the experiment with the part of a Niagara hull that gets shot by 12 lb, 24 lb and 32 lb carronades and the Test of the 24 lb long gun of the Vasa. They show what kind of damage is done to the hull and more importantly what happens after penetration inside the ship.

The link to the Niagara video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGM6AlwjGS0

Those balls don't explode. They make holes at varying sizes mostly depending on velocity at time of the impact. Some are remarkable clean, some break out larger parts. All in all the important is what happens at the exit hole and what and where they hit.

 

One broadside of a Victory (no carronades) shoots 16 x 42 lb, 15 x 24 lb and 22 x 12 lb cannon balls. At the moment one broadside of a Victory to the hull above water is enough to sink small frigates and sometimes also the medium ones if the majority of the shots connect. And that for me is simply not comprehensible. That's where I asked what kind of damage is done by those 53 solid cannonballs of different size that causes a fairly big wooden sail ship to be totally destroyed and sink without even a chance. That is where I asked the question of what we understand as Hull HP and cannonball damage and how they should relate to each other. That's also the point where I questioned the use of the term "historical" and "realistic" because they are thrown around here?

Usually the example of the frigate La Sérieuse comes into play at this point to validate the current gameplay on the testbed. And then I simply said that we don't know in detail what happend to her. At least I don't. I couldn't find a really detailed source and have no book about the battle of the Nile to search for more. Maybe someone could help out here. The best I could find is that the frigate was heavily damaged, disabled and driftend onto a shoal. Then the next day it was scuttled by the french to avoid capture by the british. It is also highly questionable if we should take this particular example as the norm.

A broadside of a first rate to a frigate is devastating and it should be. I totally agree with that. It is devastating because it is simply a huge amount of metal that enters the ship all at once with all the resulting consequences to the crew, cannons, everything that has anything to do with the rigging, modules etc but not in a way that immediately completely negates the ability of the ship to float and hold itself together. 

I said that I think this is a step into the right direction and I appreciate that we can test this on the testbed. But it needs a lot of tuning.

 

Just two examples. Excuse the horrifying graphic settings :D

This is what just three Trincomalee broadsides (32 lb carronades and 18 lb longs) do to a Cerberus, a light 5th rate.

q4scgZl.jpg

And this happens to a snow after 25 hull hits from a Trinc (full 32 lb carronade loadout) 2 and a half minutes into the battle. Nothing left and completely dismasted.

NTK5fUx.jpg

Sure. Big frigate against a smaller frigate and a small 6th rate. But seriously guys. This is way over the top.

 

 

And? Don't we have bad or new players? They should suffer extremely for being just that? Besides this doesn't only relate to first rate vs frigate. As the pictures above show.

 

Like mentioned above. Those ships can be 2 - 3 shotted atm by ships in their own class.

 

The issue in all the tests is that carronades are really deadly now.

In my view, they should have higher dispersion (=less accuracy) and be mostly a gun only for very close engagements so the penetration values should be decreased.

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Yes carro balls should probably loose speed faster, making them loose a lot of pen past medium distance. Also they feel like as accurate as med guns, while i feel they should be even less accurate at distance.

Also i note a display bug in battle instance, the hud still show me the double balls ammo option  as available (clear blue) even if it didn't let me load them on carro.

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16 minutes ago, Portuguese Privateer said:

I always thought carros couldn't load double shots. 🤔

They can’t unless you are AI, they been caught doing so.

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new damages are ok. now some correction

AI: reduce all the bonus they have due to new damage inflicted, they still have too much manouverability, acceleration, turning.

1st rate/2nd rate : more expensive to craft, and more thickness. the new historical penetration of guns must be matched with historical thickness, i don't know if we are already using the correct thickness. we need just a little bit more of thick , not an exagerated buff, cause structure can be damaged from the beginning of the battle reducing speed too much. the idea is ''1st rates must be a slow battlestation, but moving''. if we are already using historical thickness...well, it's a new fitting game to study :D .

3rd rate: i still have to redeem a bellona to fight with but the AI i managed to sink (in Vic) are really dangerous now cause 32pd inflict a lot of damage to a 1st rate and they have more speed and manouverability than a 1st or 2nd rate. finally, their role of ''lone pvp hunter'' seems to be reached. thickness should be correct as it is now, no buff needed.

4th rate: their role is to form small hunting group. 2 4th rate can be also a 1st rate killers , due to 24pd new damage. good turning, speed , maybe a very little buff to thickness. good 5th rate killers

5th rate : finally soft as they should be. correctly fast, and dangerous with carro loadout until 4th rate but don't think they can sustain a close range battle with the Wasa or 3rd rate. bellona will wipe them fast, as it should be. Indefatigable should be switched to 4th rate, it's too tanky to be a 5th rate...i sank one in 3 full broadsides of Vic with long guns, mybe with medium could be 2 and an half but still too much to be a 5th and it is also too slow to be a 5th.

6th rates : not tested yet but they are strictly connected to boarding.

Boarding: boarding is now more vet-friendly due we can still see the change in enemy preparation and new players doesn't have that experience nor they can acquire anymore. now the ships can fire guns also, so boarding must be changed to a faster ending/resolution cause it could be no more profitable to do... you board, receive new damage from victim, new damage from it's friend, new damage from F8 reinforcement so even if you win the boarding you lose the ship.  

a new boarding could be based on the rule of board fitted palyer VS not board fitting player that have to end in 1 or 2 round kill to give a meaning of boarding gameplay and reducing the sure death of gun fire during rounds. BUT, to give a balance to new system, the player with Marines cannot use the gun fire in boarding;  so, if your purpose is to resist boarding sinking the boarder with guns, you must risk to die in 1 or 2 round by the marines of the attacker...the other way, if you want to kill everyone with boarding you have to risk your ship.

obviously, nerf Barricades and buff again muskets and grenades

 

REDUCE STATS OF F8 REINFORCEMENT AI AND EPIC EVENT AI!!!!   i suppose it will be a bloodbath for every skilled palyer :D

 

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15 minutes ago, huliotkd said:

if we are already using historical thickness...well, it's a new fitting game to study :D

I think many ships in-game have a higher thickness, for game-balancing purposes, than historical values. It's been a long while since we had that discussion, so take it with a grain of SALT. ;)

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