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1 minute ago, Dibbler said:

 Won't these changes just mean people sail 1st-3rd rates...... which will bring back (again) to many lineships in game and they should be rare cries (again). 

:)

Not if they get very expensive like oh my god expensive.

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1 minute ago, Dibbler said:

 Won't these changes just mean people sail 1st-3rd rates...... which will bring back (again) to many lineships in game and they should be rare cries (again). 

:)

well 1st rates wreck 3rd rates. People will sail the biggest they have as they have always done. Smaller ships can penitrate a bit more but they can only fire one broadside and will die. 

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17 minutes ago, rediii said:

@admin if you make damage that high you should realy think about decreasing accuracy dramaticly so fights dont take place from 400m and more.

It is noted by artillery naval personel from that time that any kind of focus fire at 800 yards was impossible due to the ships rocking, rolling, moving etcetera. And this from a Royal Navy artillery man, not some backwater gunner. 800 yards is 731 meters. 

I think you have it about right, 400m for a shot dispersal equal to same ship length in "unlocked point" firing mode.

 

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1 minute ago, Hethwill said:

It is noted by artillery naval personel from that time that any kind of focus fire at 800 yards was impossible due to the ships rocking, rolling, moving etcetera. And this from a Royal Navy artillery man, not some backwater gunner. 800 yards is 731 meters. 

I think you have it about right, 400m for a shot dispersal equal to a ship length in "unlocked point" firing mode.

 

how about just disable the stabilizer we have atm? So battle sails are usefull on range due to more stable gunplatform

(atm if you leftclick you can get 50° more heel and the broadside is still perfect)

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2 minutes ago, rediii said:

Also if battles dont last long ships have to be accessible more easily (same with reps btw)

32 carros do about the same damage as double. Trinco can reload shock a frigate with 8 shots from 32 pound carronade. 

@admin since when is doubleshot 50% damage? It was 25 for a long time

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13 minutes ago, staun said:

Not if they get very expensive like oh my god expensive.

 

 Expense doesn't matter in terms of Dubloons or reals, only way to ensure they are rare is limited drops of essential resource.  By limited i mean only x number per nation of the essential sprocket or whatever which respawn only on loss of a lineship when national number falls below 30 say for instance.

 Making "expensive" through monetary terms in games means nothing i think, hard cap for number in nation would work (but then alts hoarding lineships would happen.... lol)..

Edited by Dibbler
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1 minute ago, Dibbler said:

 

 Expense doesn't matter in terms of Dubloons or reals, only way to ensure they are rare is limited drops of essential resource.  By limited i mean only x number per nation of the essential sprocket or whatever which respawn only on loss of a lineship when national number falls below 30 say for instance.

 Making "expensive" through monetary terms in games means nothing i think.

or real life crafting hours but that would only delay production

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5 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

or real life crafting hours but that would only delay production

 

That could work perhaps, but i guess number in game will be the next hot potato topic... :) (again).

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making 1st rates expensive really ever only delays how long it takes them to circulate. Most clans will replace them faster than they loose them. That I am sure of. If they cannot they will not bother attacking a port unless the have the guns. If they get attacked and cannot afford the ships to defend the ports they will quit since 2nd and 3rd rates will be hammered by 1sts.

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1st rate & 2nd rate permits could be a droppable item, rare in that case. It would make them a little bit rare to get, more expensive to sell/buy and more valuable to lose. So people will actually need to grind to get the permit to be able to craft them, it does make it a little bit harder.

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Just now, Portuguese Privateer said:

1st rate & 2nd rate permits could be a droppable item, rare in that case. It would make them a little bit rare to get, more expensive to sell/buy and more valuable to lose. So people will actually need to grind to get the permit to be able to craft them, it does make it a little bit harder.

no man. Your casual noob needs to be able to get his first rate. Sorry but ship of the lines are what sell naval action. Look at trailer. Let the noobs have them please. 

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1 minute ago, rediii said:

how about just disable the stabilizer we have atm? So battle sails are usefull on range due to more stable gunplatform

(atm if you leftclick you can get 50° more heel and the broadside is still perfect)

Think the entire trick is - horizontal aiming slower, vertical as well. Aim Area ( gun ready lighter shade ) much wider, like twice.

This means that at musket range your broadside will generically hit the target area and can still try to aim at some specific target points but beyond 400m it becomes more scattered.

Means also that a raking pass must be done close and not at 500m with extreme dead good accuracy :) 

----

Other that the gunner things I want sailing to go realistic as possible.

I cannot believe staysails and jibs to be so strong as to hold a 74 gun ship ( even a 26 gun frigate ) in a "wind anchor" position close haul. Sorry, it doesn't happen. Ship would fall off to down from beam and no matter the yard reversal you wouldn't S move around your stern. Hence why tack was a dreaded choice during battle. You either did it or you would fail and ship would fall back down wind. Also square riggers dead close haul and making way ? Even the real Lynx can't go so much close haul and eventually has to make the decision to tack or else fall back with the wind. Let alone a two decker ;) And in this situation the new gunnery would mean a lot. To know when to make the combat with wear instead of risking a tack. And you can look at many famous battles in history for this. From duels between frigates to line battles between sols. When ships decided to go close haul it was to tack, not to simply anchor there.

---

Looking forward to a more authentic age of sail combat experience.

Gunnery seems to be there.

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10 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

making 1st rates expensive really ever only delays how long it takes them to circulate. Most clans will replace them faster than they loose them. That I am sure of. If they cannot they will not bother attacking a port unless the have the guns. If they get attacked and cannot afford the ships to defend the ports they will quit since 2nd and 3rd rates will be hammered by 1sts.

 

 Aye, it's like we are going round and round in circles, except previously it was about pen and stacking so hulls were almost invincible for the meta build L'Ocean.  This time cannons, deflection, then boarding etc etc...... why on Earth do we seem to go to extremes when the true balance lies somewhere in the middle.

 Anyway i will stop, just pointing out a few things:) and gl getting balance right Devs (it isn't an easy things to do in games).

 

 

Edited by Dibbler
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the idea of making bigger ships with bigger / more guns have more punch seems good to me; but from what i've seen in a couple testbed videos it seems a little overkill

frigates still get a chance to sink the odd lineship, but need to be very careful not to make a single mistake as it will most likely be their death sentence.

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7 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Think the entire trick is - horizontal aiming slower, vertical as well. Aim Area ( gun ready lighter shade ) much wider, like twice.

This means that at musket range your broadside will generically hit the target area and can still try to aim at some specific target points but beyond 400m it becomes more scattered.

Means also that a raking pass must be done close and not at 500m with extreme dead good accuracy :) 

----

Other that the gunner things I want sailing to go realistic as possible.

I cannot believe staysails and jibs to be so strong as to hold a 74 gun ship ( even a 26 gun frigate ) in a "wind anchor" position close haul. Sorry, it doesn't happen. Ship would fall off to down from beam and no matter the yard reversal you wouldn't S move around your stern. Hence why tack was a dreaded choice during battle. You either did it or you would fail and ship would fall back down wind. Also square riggers dead close haul and making way ? Even the real Lynx can't go so much close haul and eventually has to make the decision to tack or else fall back with the wind. Let alone a two decker ;) And in this situation the new gunnery would mean a lot. To know when to make the combat with wear instead of risking a tack. And you can look at many famous battles in history for this. From duels between frigates to line battles between sols. When ships decided to go close haul it was to tack, not to simply anchor there.

---

Looking forward to a more authentic age of sail combat experience.

Gunnery seems to be there.

when was raking effective at 500m ingame? Not even broadside to broadside works with current system at great ranges. Armour and bouncing is still a thing. Look at the screenshot above. Not matter what you do in a frigate. Once I get close with my trinco youre dead meat. "Real" to be fair since the trinco is a massive 5th rate but fun? I dont think so. Close range carro fighting has been meta ever since chain was nerfed. People bounce balls at anything above 200 m. 

Edited by HachiRoku

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2 minutes ago, Liq said:

the idea of making bigger ships with bigger / more guns have more punch seems good to me; but from what i've seen in a couple testbed videos it seems a little overkill

frigates still get a chance to sink the odd lineship, but need to be very careful not to make a single mistake as it will most likely be their death sentence.

I doubt it. I offered @Portuguese Privateer a copy of anno 1800 if he sank and ai santi with trinco on server. He got dismasted and sank in 3 min. 

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35 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

and the groupe of frigates will all die. 

Only if they are commanded by Hachiroku, who is covered of dust after months without playing.

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We need outlaws and noone can pick any other nation but pirate for testing. There is no way we can test anything with ai. 

Edited by HachiRoku
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1 minute ago, jodgi said:

To me this looks great!

it is great but mostly for 1v1s. Its bigger vs slightly smaller ships an Issue.

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Just now, HachiRoku said:

it is great but mostly for 1v1s. Its bigger vs slightly smaller ships an Issue.

Could be, haven't tested.

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9 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

when was raking effective at 500m ingame? Not even broadside to broadside works with current system at great ranges. Armour and bouncing is still a thing. Look at the screenshot above. Not matter what you do in a frigate. Once I get close with my trinco youre dead meat. "Real" to be fair since the trinco is a massive 5th rate but fun? I dont think so. Close range carro fighting has been meta ever since chain was nerfed. People bounce balls at anything above 200 m. 

I don't care about you or your Trinc.

But good point on the sturdiness of some ships.

Enough of mmo gimmicks. Go simulation grade please. 

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