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Testbed Feedback - Battle UI, Localization, Patrols, Delivery quests

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On 2/12/2019 at 5:44 PM, rediii said:

Do we get realistic reloadtimes aswell then? (timecompressed)

What would this be ingame? 10 seconds? Less?

time is relative. 
Average reload for a 36lb (based on Boudriot) was 14 mins, heavy ship tacked in 20-30 mins (average crews). In game heavy ships tacks in 2-3 mins which makes reload relatively historical compared to tacking time. 

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So... after doing some more testing on the test bed server I came to another conclusion...

I really think that the boarding UI would look better in a more vanilla/off white tone with either light tan or medium tan high lights... the blues and greys I find a little disorienting, maybe that is just me... other than that the battle UI looks awesome and the boarding UI is a major improvement... also, please don't change the color just because it doesn't work for me... if every one else is a fan of the color it should remain.

Damage models looked good to me, I did a little extra testing and noticed that I wanted to be able to fire at the water as in the waterline arch mode, but without the horizontal convergence...just a thought.

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The current waterline fire arch is good for larger ships that want to shoot smaller ships... I just feel we need a low waterline arch that is less converged... a wide waterline convergence for travelling at higher speeds.

This is my opinion anyway.

Edited by LIONOFWALES

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37 minutes ago, admin said:

time is relative. 
Average reload for a 36lb (based on Boudriot) was 14 mins, heavy ship tacked in 20-30 mins (average crews). In game heavy ships tacks in 2-3 mins which makes reload relatively historical compared to tacking time. 

Please check carronades and edinorogs performance. They are a bit OP.

Also I find really strange that a mortar of 300pd has a reaload of only 35 secs!!

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1 hour ago, admin said:

time is relative. 
Average reload for a 36lb (based on Boudriot) was 14 mins, heavy ship tacked in 20-30 mins (average crews). In game heavy ships tacks in 2-3 mins which makes reload relatively historical compared to tacking time. 

But tacking is overall to fast. It's actual faster than wearing in-game.

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28 minutes ago, z4ys said:

But tacking is overall to fast. It's actual faster than wearing in-game.

Not really... entirely... true. Distance covered and time. In tacking you only have to turn through about 12 points, to wear you have 20 points to cover. ( points of sail )

But yes, the "future position" determines how the guns will be used. Hence beating can be sustained, as much as wind allows, but that's it. 

Image result for sailing compass

 

Did come across these when designing some rules for tabletop, which may even be more effectively used in NA. ( in tabletop, time is better be abstract for game flow ). Has some solid fact about the wears and tacks and immobilization of ships with cross yards at 6 points of the wind ( not on the eye of the wind ).

http://www.cnrs-scrn.org/northern_mariner/vol13/tnm_13_4_29-39.pdf

https://www.cnrs-scrn.org/northern_mariner/vol14/tnm_14_3_57-68.pdf

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5 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

Not really... entirely... true. Distance covered and time. In tacking you only have to turn through about 12 points, to wear you have 20 points to cover. ( points of sail )

But yes, the "future position" determines how the guns will be used. Hence beating can be sustained, as much as wind allows, but that's it. 

Image result for sailing compass

 

Did come across these when designing some rules for tabletop, which may even be more effectively used in NA. ( in tabletop, time is better be abstract for game flow ). Has some solid fact about the wears and tacks and immobilization of ships with cross yards at 6 points of the wind ( not on the eye of the wind ).

http://www.cnrs-scrn.org/northern_mariner/vol13/tnm_13_4_29-39.pdf

https://www.cnrs-scrn.org/northern_mariner/vol14/tnm_14_3_57-68.pdf

Was starting for both at 90° so same change of degrees.

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Wearing was always the "less of two evils". If i'm not mistaken 17th century orders had some explicit entries against tacking through, but the rigging evolution in a 100 years was immense. Same as the guns :) 

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Concerning how damages are displayed, it is a bit hard to see the icons on top of the screen. They are rather small, too high on the screen, and they do not last long enough. This is particularly critical for leaks, I would say, since leaks play a strong role in some important decisions during fights.

What about having them displayed directly underneath the boat target on the top right side of the screen?

I have not checked how the boarding looks like now but it was rather dry when the patch was initially deployed.

Otherwise, great job and interesting additional content - thank you!

Edited by Esprit
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8 hours ago, Hethwill said:

Not really... entirely... true. Distance covered and time. In tacking you only have to turn through about 12 points, to wear you have 20 points to cover. ( points of sail )

But yes, the "future position" determines how the guns will be used. Hence beating can be sustained, as much as wind allows, but that's it. 

Image result for sailing compass

 

Did come across these when designing some rules for tabletop, which may even be more effectively used in NA. ( in tabletop, time is better be abstract for game flow ). Has some solid fact about the wears and tacks and immobilization of ships with cross yards at 6 points of the wind ( not on the eye of the wind ).

http://www.cnrs-scrn.org/northern_mariner/vol13/tnm_13_4_29-39.pdf

https://www.cnrs-scrn.org/northern_mariner/vol14/tnm_14_3_57-68.pdf

Nice find. 👍 I have a couple Willis' books ("The Fighting Temeraire"). He has put together a good synopsis of sources here. Your compass rose illustrated that even a generous angle of 60 degrees would be playable and lead to more "realistic" tactics. 

It is important to note that some ships, in particular longer ships did not wear well. Some ships were noted to be "good in stays" on their sailing reports as well. (I believe Endymion was one of these). Also we shouldn't forget about boxhauling - which was mostly done when a ship missed stays or failed to tack. 

Of course the weather had a big effect on whether a fleet or ship for that matter tacked or wore to change course. Tacking was very risky in high wind and heavy seas for example. Being caught aback could have dire consequences for the rigging!  No worries about this in NA so carry on. 

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@admin i did a quick test on the new damage model with a capped 5th rate against a 1st rate. i fought a lone Santisima with this ship.

 

unknown.png

as you can see, nothing special. i put Bow figure Katherine and Light canvas on it, 42pd carros and medium guns for stern and bow.

this is the result of the fight:


https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/534858936856084512/545725892396056586/unknown.png

well my impresions, the fight start with both ships side to side, i shoot a full broadside ( cause i had prepared perk) and i did some damage at 250mt aprox, then i turn to take the stern and i stay there, did a couple of good stern rakes and even i put her in crew shock with a nice grape racke, the fight gone well taking some damage and bouncing others (still bow tanking works a little with the indef, at least agains npc) i was very afraid when the santi fool me in a maneuver and i almost get boarded, but i manage to stay away and i save myself when she pull me, this happen when Santi went close hauled and i didnt notice the wind shift and didnt manage my distance correctly... anyway, i took a lot of damage with her broadside, but i destroy his rudder and i save myself, reapair and go back to fight... this continue for about 30 minutes, after 4 repair cicles and a lot of racking shots i notice something...

friggates can sink 1st rates in 1v1 if the friggate captain is smart and fight without mistakes and Know what he is doing BUT if you get chained or demasted you basically are dead, so Im very glad to have this nice and well balance again, SOL are deadly and it should be, but they are not invincible, wich is nice! but in a good player hands probably they should, at least 1v1.

some aditional stuff i noticed, sometimes when i put straight shots into his stern, i don't do any damage on the structure but i kill some crew and cannons, wich sometimes buggered me cause i need to do another pass and the bar dont move at all... anyway.

conclusions: 1v1 friggate vs 1st rate(npc)  Posible - Very hard, but posible
                        1v1 friggate vs 1st rate/2nd rate (player) Posible, BUT Hard as Hell !!! 

PS: i add another Screenshot fo the fight, take a look of the damage... i almost sank it by only raking shots... i put some broadsides into his left side, but not much
 

santifight.png

 

fight.png

Edited by Carlos_Condell
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I still feel it is very easy to dimast. 

With the high penetration of cannons and their consequent damage it is a dimasting festival. And carros are great for that btw. 

Im dimasting with the 24pd carros of the pavel at 150m. No carro perk or aim mods/skillbooks.

With a full broadside of the pavel I remove 40% of the hull of an indefatigable so a captain can make one and two mistakes. I think it is fine.

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Ok I just got done spending a good 2 hours or so on test bed... this is my opinion after seeing what is and is not,

1) PVP hunting missions, in my opinion, should not be limited to a specific class of ship, especially if the PVP mission is intended to be open world oriented and not limited primarily to port battles. I like the idea for PVP rewards, I think missions are a good way to influence this, however being I am somewhat experienced in the PVP open world theater in game, I highly recommend not to put stringencies on class of ship... just a head count would be good. NPC missions on the other hand are just fine with the rated limitations.

2) I took several ships in game... NPCs, and the dabloon return was very high in my opinion. Such quantities of dabloons should only be available in a mission instance, and only to reward those that successfully took a ship by boarding in my opinion. After roughly an hour of play I had pulled around 300 dabloons off of a random brig, then got around 500 dabloons off of a 5th rate I took, then I captured a La Gros Venture and got 1340 dabloons off of it. Don't get me wrong, I am in favour of rewarding people the trouble for combat, the dabloons gained from doing such activities just seems too high to me, I think the dabloons gained should be cut by 75%. Perhaps consider removing dabloons except for in missions or epic events as the increased dabloons would encourage people to play the missions more than just looking for a super sized NPC fleet to kill. I should also remark that I do believe that the inflated dabloon quantity would be condussive on the PVE server, it just doesn't feel right on the PVP server in my opinion.

3) I tried the delivery system out, very cool in my opinion, this makes sense to me to have this in game because delivering goods or personnel to locations of importance was a thing and would fit nicely in Naval Action. In my opinion the rewards are decent for the risk involved and should encourage newer players to risk themselves and their ships to gain the 1500 to 2500 or so dabloons that they would earn after completing such a hazardous voyage. This specific genera of missions will be good for those that like to smuggle or blockade run. The delivery missions are very good in my opinion. One thing that I do feel obligated to propose... can you make these missions stealable from the ship hold after defeat by say a pirate or other warring faction? That is, say, a player, we will call him Smith, in a Traders Brig is running mail to Puerto Plata, he gets intercepted by Pirate Longshanks half way into his voyage and the mail is taken from Smith. The time to deliver the mail is still listed on the mail mission and the pirate player can see it and the info. Lets say there is 4 days left to deliver the mail and gain from the mission. The Pirate, Longshanks , decides to take the mail then and get the rewards instead of Smith. Can we please consider this as a mechanic in game to encourage some real pirate work? Just a thought, this in my opinion would be really cool. If these sort of missions could eventually replace just killing super fleets I am very much in favor of them.

4) I saw the 3 pound base cannons... they have the exact same stats as 4 pound mediums, I hope this changes. Would you consider making a basic cannon class that can not be double loaded in any way? Make the new cheap cannons standard in port items and create a trade for medium cannons in game? The cheap cannons could be lighter and cause the same damage as mediums, maybe with a small range penalty, you know, super cheap junkers that nobody really would want to use, but would offer some super cheap options for poor players, even consider making them only available between 3 pound and up to 12 or 18 pound. We then could focus on making the mediums exclusively player driven just like carronades and longs. Perhaps also consider adding the Poods to the Admiralty store. I feel this would be a good way to go and would bring a booster to the cannons trade in my humble opinion.

5) I tested the accuracy for the Sextant, very good so far, would you consider starting new players with it automatically? I think this would be a good way to go, after running a couple of mail deliveries successfully a newer player would be able to afford a new ship from the Admiralty and a permit to reset their perks if they so desire.

Thank you for your time, I have truly enjoyed this beta and I feel that this game is going the right direction.

Please take my advice seriously, I have put a lot of time into pulling this data from in game experience over the last couple years for you. None of my thoughts were driven by a whim or moment of emotion. All was thought out very carefully and articulated accordingly.

I look forward to getting that Santa Cecelia, I will love getting sunk in it.

Good luck Devs and best of wishes.

Sincerely,

LIONOFWALES aka... Count Ceprian Von Igmann

Never take a line ship out without a good frigate escort, and never initiate an engagement you think you may lose.

 

Edited by LIONOFWALES

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4 hours ago, CdrNexoe said:

Done the killings a& boardings, more than 7 days ago.

When do we get the promised rewards?

If i'm not mistaken they should be awarded same as last time, when patch is deployed live.

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42 minutes ago, Hethwill said:

If i'm not mistaken they should be awarded same as last time, when patch is deployed live.

Is the patch going to be deployed with Battle UI, Localization, Patrols, Delivery quests only or with new damage as well? In case of new damage model is it going to be tested throughly first or released live to be fully tested there? In case of new damage model being tested fully on the testbed and being released with other new feature, how long is that going to take?

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No idea. Last time we had testbed the rewards were in redeemables on live server after the full patch deployment. That's all i know.

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4 minutes ago, Borch said:

Is the patch going to be deployed with Battle UI, Localization, Patrols, Delivery quests only or with new damage as well? In case of new damage model is it going to be tested throughly first or released live to be fully tested there? In case of new damage model being tested fully on the testbed and being released with other new features, how long is that going to take?

Can we get an answer to this questions please @admin?

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33 minutes ago, Borch said:

Is the patch going to be deployed with Battle UI, Localization, Patrols, Delivery quests only or with new damage as well? In case of new damage model is it going to be tested throughly first or released live to be fully tested there? In case of new damage model being tested fully on the testbed and being released with other new feature, how long is that going to take?

That would interest me too, because we finally need npc on the PVE server and the new patch should help. The only hint i found here:

Therefore it looks like that the damage model will be patched separately, so at least the state on Monday.

... would also make sense for me, because the new damage model is indeed a bigger project.

 

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Another battle:

 

Pavel vs Ocean.

It was a really hard fight. Two repair hulls used and lots of angling at 45-70 degrees trying to avoid damage. This time I zero tanked with the bow.

I believe the HP of first rates might be too high compared with the second and third rates.  The broadside weight of the Ocean is almost enough to justify their extra costs and BR.

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