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Port Battle Risk vs Rewards


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Any ruleset relies on player willing to play it.

I will say that any ruleset that grants every player everything will be the most played by the masses. This is obvious.

Once we have everything we will need something else. And no amount of ships, doubloons or paints will ever replace the sense of achievement.

That sense is gone when it become commonplace. So, as i see it, acting attacker, organizing the clan, going for hostility, being in battles open to being invaded by enemy players and having to fight twice the number of ships, and then having to fight a PB against a equal fleet, demands recognition by the admiralty.

If attacks reward the effort more clans will attack. If more clans attack there are more conquest battles.

If clan decides not to defend then they lose the port. GL playing a game to lose. ( makes zero sense )

 

 

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By going so far in optimizing every game aspects separately (patch after patch) , the global NA harmony of the settings/mechanics seems to have gone away...

To be honest, NA was so much simpler 2 years ago despite existing issues. But adding more & more "adjustments" or "conversions" has made NA to become a complex game for experts players.

Unless a full re-conversion for simpler mechanics could pretend to reach a final release that would please most players.

I am puzzled about the last 2 years development goals...

Today,

Economy = to be re-adjusted (still).

Currencies & rewards = to be clarified and possibly changed.

Trading = to be adjusted (still)

RvR & timers = not finished yet

Hostilities = to be adapted (still)

PvP = to be optimized (still)

PB's = to be adapted or possibly changed.

Ship's BR = not finalized yet.

ETC...

Are we close to a final concept yet ?

The main feature that has clearly changed as finalized is "Clan base" control, no diplomacy support, every nations are enemies.

which is a poor choice to me despite most current players approval. 

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2 hours ago, Palatinose said:

Yesterday I sank 6 ships: a frigate, an Indiaman, a Connie and a Hermione, an Aga and a Requin. Overall it was about 250 dubs directly to the chest and about 2.1k dubs of which i only managed to bring back home 250 of the frigate. Overall it were about four hours of gameplay and ofc I had fun. Last week i sank a T Brig with 6700!!!! dubs aboard. I'm not complaining, just stating that these numbers seem weird to me. I have a couple if alts i use for trading otherwise i would not be able to actually sustain this type of gameplay without being forced to PvE. 

I wholehearthly agree, as to similar previous posts.

PvP is not economically profitable even for successful PvPers, like some who wrote here. Not to speak about more casual players, and so less successful.

We should not to end back (pvp marks) to successful solo raiding being economically far more profitable than trading.

Solo raiding is at the moment almost sustainable, even if less profitable than trading...

The problem, as nicely pointed by @Christendom, it's the supposed endgame PvP (RvR and PBs) being usually in total loss.

And, especially, that mindlessly killing AI traders is even more profitable than trading and raiding.

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1 hour ago, Durin said:

RvR is mostly done by those. They have everthing allready, purple ships, gold ships, a big stack of portbattle ships. Paint is the only thing they are all missing. But i dont really care what they do with Paint aslong as it doesnt come back as DLC. damn DLC's are ruining the game.

But would it not be nice to have a game where more would be part in RvR and not less. Not sure paint can achive thst.

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1 hour ago, Chevalier du Ethuville said:

Any ruleset relies on player willing to play it.

I will say that any ruleset that grants every player everything will be the most played by the masses. This is obvious.

Once we have everything we will need something else. And no amount of ships, doubloons or paints will ever replace the sense of achievement.

That sense is gone when it become commonplace. So, as i see it, acting attacker, organizing the clan, going for hostility, being in battles open to being invaded by enemy players and having to fight twice the number of ships, and then having to fight a PB against a equal fleet, demands recognition by the admiralty.

If attacks reward the effort more clans will attack. If more clans attack there are more conquest battles.

If clan decides not to defend then they lose the port. GL playing a game to lose. ( makes zero sense )

 

 

Oh playersdon’t play to lose. Lose to much think two things can happen. Players either stop playing ore go to a winning nation. But you can br right, so just go for it. Just don’t complain when it turns out you didn’t get the expected result.

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2 minutes ago, staun said:

Oh playersdon’t play to lose. Lose to much think two things can happen. Players either stop playing ore go to a winning nation. But you can br right, so just go for it. Just don’t complain when it turns out you didn’t get the expected result.

It is my point of view. I'm not a fan of endless ships arena game ( or tanks, or planes, or whatever... i simply hate those games). I like the survival aspect in games and the wargame that means defeat of enemies, by various means.

You have a different point of view. I'm glad we can expose them and acknowledge the differences.

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8 minutes ago, Chevalier du Ethuville said:

It is my point of view. I'm not a fan of endless ships arena game ( or tanks, or planes, or whatever... i simply hate those games). I like the survival aspect in games and the wargame that means defeat of enemies, by various means.

You have a different point of view. I'm glad we can expose them and acknowledge the differences.

I do see the fun in all out war. The most fun I have had was when I was just a small part of a big war. But I am also a realist and based on how ppl behave when they have lost, Well I am in little doubt about the concequences in an all out war. In the end this game is only fun when you have somebody to fight. 

Personally I think close fights win ore lose are more fun than easy winning. But can understand those where winning is more important. Winning is just not an end goal for me. It is the Road travelled that make fun for me.

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1 hour ago, Graf Bernadotte said:

I don't get your point.

What's about all those Victory marks you collected the last months for defending this port the last time long ago? Why don't they count for you? If you're in need of more Doublons just set the timer on reasonable times for 7up and you get attacked every other day. Plenty of chances for looting countless doublons.

You prefered to use the current RvR mechanic to avoid fighting and to collect Victory mark pensions without risk and without effort. You got exactly what you wanted.

For all players who want to be rewarded for fighting and not for not being a retired ex-pro I suggest to give Victory marks for the damage every player makes during hostility, PB and screening instead of paying pensions for not fighting. To make those marks more desirable PB timers should be paid with marks and all top upgrades should be purchasable with VMs as well.

As usual graffy duck misses the point of a post and immediately turns to insults and biased comments.  Same people, same ideas.

We use timers to protect our port and it opens up during a time frame when we can protect it with players.  Just like every clan does.  Is this mechanics abuse?  We’d fight 7up but you guys don’t exist anymore.  Now you’re just “some guy” back in Russia.  As you recall, Jag’s is the reason for our occupation of KW.  Where is he now?  I miss the dude.

Does anyone still actually need Victory marks?  What a useless mechanic.  

 

 

Edited by Christendom
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One of the concern is loot sunk enemy:

For the winning side:

  • Loot is often lost when the sunk ship sinks in the middle of enemy, or sinks upwind, or sinks while you presence is necessary elsewhere. In this cases: no reward
  • Loot can be stolen by "so-called-friendly-players", that you can't green-on-green sink with the necessary warning if the battle is going to the end: they stole the loot and escape.

For the "losing" side:

  • Very often, no loot, no reward, no compensation. And often, the losing side is the one you made the effort to come in enemy waters.

Changes of the ROE seem more and more necessary here, for not discouraging attackers to come in enemy waters (loot can be taken only by the player who got the kill or loot given by the admiralty at the end of the fight to successful players). Compensation for players who honorably lost the fight (can be checked by hit records) to be defined, and granted.

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As I purposed earlier,

My Admirality should reward me for sinking enemy ships !!! not with 9 dubloons ! , whatever I loot is my loot, but I sank some enemies, so my nation will reward me for that. That is different from loot. That is my reward.

So there should be some fixed reals and dubloons from admirality to reward victorious captains. For example double the BR rating of enemy ship, comes as a reward from admirality. If your BR is lower, it may increase up to %100 according to BR difference, because it is more heroic, or may decrease a bit if you have higher BR. So this reward is divided according to damage percentage just like the old PVP marks. So @admin you want pvp, you give casuals chance for dubloons by pve, but this time you did not reward the more riskier gameplay, PVP. Make admirality give dubloons and more rewards for PVP, sinking enemy ships, so people wants to involve in PVP, they will be happy. Pve guys happy, Pvp guys happy.

As for PORT BATTLES, there should be a rewards post battle screen, because it is a port battle. If you have looted during battle, that is okay. But after battle total remaining loot should be collected, as you have won the battle and your fleet has small ships to collect the remaining loot ! , but of cource some loot has been lost due to sinking, so you get less loot from overal avaliable loot. And as you have won a port, Admirality will reward the brave captains with dubloons/reals/chests time to time.

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1 hour ago, Graf Bernadotte said:

It was also your complaint that you don't get enough doublons. What I really don't understand, since I have so many of them that I even don't loot anymore to not block more slots of my rare warehouse space, which I can only expand with rare reals.

Please re-read the title of my post.  

Risk vs Reward.   

I don’t do any sort of PVE, outside of occasionally flipping a port.  I don’t even do epics.  I’ve got enough dubs and reals through PVP to replace a few 1st rates, but I primarily just throw everything in the clan bank and not worry about it.  I don’t hunt traders.  I don’t grind slots.  I haven’t even redeemed a Christian yet.  

The point I’m trying to bring up is what RVR has pretty much grounded to a halt due to the cost investment in sending in line ships.  This isn’t a problem just symptomatic of night flippers.  When you defend a port and sink as many ships as we did, the payout should at least give you some of your investment in doubloons back.  As it stood in the battle the other day, we didn’t even clear enough to craft a 1st rate.  

This system sucks and it needs to be changed.

So I have some suggestions below.  

1 - Convert marks into dubs pathway.  

2 - Reduce BR or cap ship rates on a number or ports to encourage smaller ships.  You really shouldn’t bring 1sts or 2nds to every battle anyway.  

3 - reduce doubloons costs for lineships or increase payouts.  

4 - do away with doubloons in crafting.  

5 - paint chests 

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1 hour ago, Graf Bernadotte said:

Permanent players don't need Doublons as RvR reward. This would be a feature for pensioneers only.

Again you fail to see the point in my thread, but that's ok.  It is you after all.  

Your phrasing above amuses me.  Folks can call me many things, some true, but an inexperienced RVR captain definitely isn't one of them.  Besides, I know you just got back from a couple month hiatus after 7up dissolved.  Are you an example of a "permanent" RVR player?  Do permanent RVR players take a couple months off and then run back to Russia and change their in game names to hide?  

There's also PVP and patrol zone ganking in numbers.  I pvp.  What do yo do?

I'm bored of you Graf.  You're nothing now.  Move along.  

Edited by Christendom
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6 hours ago, Christendom said:

Does anyone still actually need Victory marks?  What a useless mechanic.  

 

 

This is a facile argument. They are no longer convertible from doubloons, and the abundance of them in player possession is due to previous ease of access. Still there are players, myself as example, who have none. One might as well argue that there is no longer a need for white oak or Teak, on the basis that some people have enormous stockpiles. Economy tuning is always slow to have a noticeable effect outside of predictions.

Edited by John Cavanaugh
Phoneposting, autocorrect is a whore
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