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Christendom

Port Battle Risk vs Rewards

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So we had a little Fracas over at Key West this week vs Spain and I've been a little salty about the amount of doubloons received at the end.  

d5ee1f941d12698ed298f560030b12b3.png

2 Vics sunk
3 Bucs
1 Bellona
1 Wasa
1 Belle Poule + 1 MB

Total amount of dubs collected off the sunken ships was around 7000-8000.  I think the highest amount received from the battle screen was around 200.  Not even enough doubloons to replace 1 of the 1st rates that were risked to successfully defend the port.  And we were lucky enough to be able to loot these ships.  Most fights you are not given the flow of battle. 

Spain received nothing for their effort. 

---- 

Rewards seem a bit abysmal no?  We could probably get more doubloons capping AI trader snows in the span of an hour or 2.  What incentive does Spain have to do a repeat attack?  Sure we get to keep the port, but it only pays for itself 50% of the time if we're lucky.  What would the alternative be?  Dropping the port, not giving a shit about PBs and just sinking AI traders?  

Overall there's been far less deep water PBs since the doubloons patch.  I see why.  

To be frank, this system sucks.  At the very least we need to bring back chests with paints and random ship notes.  

Edit - more of a rant post than a suggestion, but whatever.

Edited by Christendom
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Totally agree, the current system is in my opinion stupid as stated above.

Other reason i find the current way an issue, the nation that gets sunk can also be the ones who are able to get away with the rewarded doubloons. I've seen many good PvP players in battles such as 2v6 for example and there sinking ships and obviously not able to turn around and sit next to a sinking ship to collect the loot due to being up against more ships, so then the enemy sails up and gets it instead. 

I've also seen players in the same nation get to the ship that someone else sunk and grab the loot and leave.

 

For me get rid of the doubloons drop within the ship once it sinks and just increase the battle rewards, we already get rewards from sunken ships with there remaining repairs and an upgrade.

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We should receive some chests in redeemables after a successful attack or defense.

Many times looting the enemies in a pvp battle is the last thing you can do.

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21 minutes ago, Hammy said:

For me get rid of the doubloons drop within the ship once it sinks and just increase the battle rewards, we already get rewards from sunken ships with there remaining repairs and an upgrade.

Exactly. Leave looting for mods, repairs, and carried goods, and every once in a while perhaps a doubloon jackpot.

But just drop doubloons as battle rewards in the hold of your current ship as a quality of life feature and ramp up their rate for PvP and RvR actions.

The intention of doubloons is to create a partition between those doing econ/crafting and those doing OW hunting of players and AI. Right now there's a huge disconnect between the risk and reward of doing those things and it's just a fun suck and is putting the brakes on the Action in Naval Action.

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18 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

We should receive some chests in redeemables after a successful attack or defense.

Many times looting the enemies in a pvp battle is the last thing you can do.

Or should do, if you want to fight the battle properly.   

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In general the PvP is in a sorry state. The random nature of doubloons means that you can get 1.5k-2k doubloons from an AI trader and get less than 1k doubloon from a PvP kill..

As to the RvR.. There really needs a lot of work to make it worthwhile, not just the PB but also actually owning a port at all...

Econ is as far as I'm concerned as broken as ever, I came back (just for a bit of fun) 5 days ago and I've already made my first million.. And I didn't even try to get a lot of reals..

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Remember battle screen loot after successful PBs. You couldn't fit it in a warship, so sometimes we would take traders into PBs when we knew they were poorly defended. People wanted to go to PBs just because of that loot of resources at the end. 

We should have something like that back. 

Give us a nice stack (2,5k) of a randomly selected, non-produceable, wood type at the end of a successfull PB, preferrably after returning to port so we don't have to bring traders to carry it home. Or, you know, paints chests. As has already been suggested.

As far as doubloons goes, I have always advocated for less reliance on looting in PvP.

Looting in its current form is a game-ruining annoyance. 

But leaving that aside, while the I agree that the doubloons tally at the end of your battle is meagre compared to the worth of the ships, it should be noted that the risk has gone significantly down since doubloons were introduced. Since doubloons are now much cheaper, being much easier to come by (too easy now if you ask me). Just yesterday I killed 2 frigate fleets (I really needed another skillslot) and looted about 9k doubloons.

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11 minutes ago, Pirate78 said:

Vets vs a bunch of new guys in cheep ships. Game requires more work!

Umm

Deltonos, Juanjo, Jorge Durruti and Anson have at least been around since I started.  Regardess, this wasn’t a chest beating post.

 

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Gives way to "alt clans" making deals. That's why we can't have nice things.

But...

The reward for attacker victory must excel wild dreams and HURT the enemy profoundly. Loot enemy player warehouses, capture ships in docks if attacker, stuff that hits hard the enemy clan. The Attacker bets all with hostility, screening, and whatnot, the defender has a shorter road to follow.

Additionally for the Attacker, ships lost in the battle would be replaced by a ship note of the same model IF the Attacker loses.

So, if attacker wins, he robs a ton of stuff from the Defender - so you better Defend and make sure you do win.

If attacker loses but fights bravely, the nation council back in europe sees fit to replace their losses for a new campaign.

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This is simple.

Fix the post battle rewards in Port battles.
Add a longboat perk, where players can opt to use one of their perk slots to loot nearby ships without having to be directly next to them.

But that would require coding....

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53 minutes ago, Chevalier du Ethuville said:

Gives way to "alt clans" making deals. That's why we can't have nice things.

But...

The reward for attacker victory must excel wild dreams and HURT the enemy profoundly. Loot enemy player warehouses, capture ships in docks if attacker, stuff that hits hard the enemy clan. The Attacker bets all with hostility, screening, and whatnot, the defender has a shorter road to follow.

Additionally for the Attacker, ships lost in the battle would be replaced by a ship note of the same model IF the Attacker loses.

So, if attacker wins, he robs a ton of stuff from the Defender - so you better Defend and make sure you do win.

If attacker wins and fights bravely, the nation council back in europe sees fit to replace their losses for a new campaign.

If I get you right. Defender can only hope to keep there port, but not win anything by defending. Attacker have all to win and no risk as long as they only fight bravely. 

Would that just not mean it is better for me not to defend a port and go attack another port?

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Then read again.

Attacker bets a fleet. Which gets replaced IF ships sink, by ship notes, not the same ship - only IF they lose.

If attacker wins, they loot what they may, randomly from warehouses and docks - impossible to loot all the stuff.

If Defender wins, they lose nothing including keeping the port with everything it has. After all they just have to sit tight and wait for PB.

Risk of being attacker is 3:1 odds in favor of defender ( hostility + screen + PB vs PB )

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Easy solution: If you win a PB, ontop of receiving that nice mail, you should also get a redeemable paint chest. Those should be worth any risk taken by the players that participated :)

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7 hours ago, Chevalier du Ethuville said:

Then read again.

Attacker bets a fleet. Which gets replaced IF ships sink, by ship notes, not the same ship - only IF they lose.

If attacker wins, they loot what they may, randomly from warehouses and docks - impossible to loot all the stuff.

If Defender wins, they lose nothing including keeping the port with everything it has. After all they just have to sit tight and wait for PB.

Risk of being attacker is 3:1 odds in favor of defender ( hostility + screen + PB vs PB )

So if they lose no risk. They get a ship note. Not for the same ship. Is it then for a better ship ore a lower class ship.

If they win, they will find nothing to loot of value. Personally I have all my ship in a freeport. Then we can talk of ressources, Well if I have a port with value ressources witch is only one, I just put it on for indiamans and log it of in open wather. They would simply never be able to loot anything of value.

3-1 odds, oh boy are you wrong. That is simply just wrong. There are lots of factors more important. Like skill and numbers.

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4 hours ago, Durin said:

Easy solution: If you win a PB, ontop of receiving that nice mail, you should also get a redeemable paint chest. Those should be worth any risk taken by the players that participated :)

You think a paint is enough to motivate ppl?

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8 hours ago, Durin said:

Easy solution: If you win a PB, ontop of receiving that nice mail, you should also get a redeemable paint chest. Those should be worth any risk taken by the players that participated :)

i can only see exploits from your suggestions, like we had when VM were important  2 clans just traded ports for farming the marks, this would happen aswell with paint chest

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1 hour ago, Wyy said:

i can only see exploits from your suggestions, like we had when VM were important  2 clans just traded ports for farming the marks, this would happen aswell with paint chest

Paint chests doesnt give you any insane advantage.

Conquest Marks were the difference between the survival or the death of a nation.

Even if it happens it wont screw rvr.

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5 hours ago, staun said:

That is simply just wrong.

All right. I accept your view as being better then.

You already thinking of meta and how to deny gameplay with yer tricks.

All good. 

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16 hours ago, Christendom said:

To be frank, this system sucks.  At the very least we need to bring back chests with paints and random ship notes. 

I have a brillian and innovative idea! Let's give players doubloons after battle, based on damage they make, without a need for looting. Make them weightless and allow for a ship to carry as many of them as you want. A fair and painless distribution...

 

...oh, it may be not that innovative after all, as we had it with PvP marks already, right? It worked perfectly though :) The only difference would be they'd be still lootable until you reach the port.

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2 minutes ago, vazco said:

I have a brillian and innovative idea! Let's give players doubloons after battle, based on damage they make, without a need for looting. Make them weightless and allow for a ship to carry as many of them as you want. A fair and painless distribution...

 

...oh, it may be not that innovative after all, as we had it with PvP marks already, right? It worked perfectly though :) The only difference would be they'd be still lootable until you reach the port.

Doubloons based on killing or assists as rewards are not enough. I win more reals trading or doubloons sinking npc ships.

Being port battles part of the endgame its rewards should be better in order to compensate the risk of losing so expensive ships.

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Yesterday I sank 6 ships: a frigate, an Indiaman, a Connie and a Hermione, an Aga and a Requin. Overall it was about 250 dubs directly to the chest and about 2.1k dubs of which i only managed to bring back home 250 of the frigate. Overall it were about four hours of gameplay and ofc I had fun. Last week i sank a T Brig with 6700!!!! dubs aboard. I'm not complaining, just stating that these numbers seem weird to me. I have a couple if alts i use for trading otherwise i would not be able to actually sustain this type of gameplay without being forced to PvE. 

Edited by Palatinose
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10 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Doubloons based on killing or assists as rewards are not enough. I win more reals trading or doubloons sinking npc ships.

Being port battles part of the endgame its rewards should be better in order to compensate the risk of losing so expensive ships.

That's true. First step would be to make them weightless and always fairly distributed based on damage, second would have to be readjustment to balance risk and reward.

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