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Sir Texas Sir

A Suggestion to Reduce the Number of Factions

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Just now, Powderhorn said:

There is no reason to make this any more than what it is.  All I'm suggesting is renaming the Commonwealth of Poland and adding those flags that are not appropriate for other factions, to make it more appealing for more people.  Everything else, including re-hashing ideas already tested and new mechanics, should be taken to their own threads.

And we are suggestion dropping the 11 nations thing and go to 4 core nations and 1-2 pirate/privateer nations.  We have way to many nations, some of them weren't in this time zone even involved.  RUSSIA never had any involvement, Poland had some troops sent there, Prussia 200 years before had a port, but by this time had little to no Navy.   So why not make all these special nations a Privateer nation for folks that want to play them?    Why just Poland?  Why not the other nations that aren't suppose to be here?  I don't get...oh cause the few players that wanted Poland aren't active any more and it's a dead nation that maybe 10-20 players are keeping alive?  I don't see why we can't combine more than one suggestion on the same basic view of things?

 

PS don't forget to put tags in the post or Admin/Devs won't look at it.

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Now that flags are introduced, you can just have the 1-2 privateer nations, and simply let them pick the flags that most match their origin or whatever.
RvR doesn't need a dozen nations on the board, I would argue no game needs more than 5 or 6 factions, if you're expecting those factions to fight against each other.
The nation difficulty is the dumbest thing I've seen yet, it's hilarious that anyone would think they can rank the difficulty of a collection of people without even considering the people element.
US is obviously not an "easy nation", no nation has it easy so lets just get rid of that assumption, and bring back large scale RVR for the official nations.

Edited by Slim McSauce
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Copying my suggestion from the other post.   This was originally @rediii's idea

cut half the nations in the game and just create one “outlaw” sandbox faction that fights each other and is clan based.  Then have 4 or 5 historical nations that are PVE/PVP based that are starter nations.  

The outlaw clan can select which national flags to use from an assortment and to use REDS as an example.... North puts in his clan info that it’s a Russian clan and they have access to one or 2 Built in Russia flags + the dlc stuff.  

Outlaw clans can do whatever the my want, craft from free towns... PVP.., RVR.  Whatever.  

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I had an idea when the flag DLC was released.

Why not nations inside of the actual nation?

 

For example: 

GB: Portugal.

Pirates: Barbary States.

 

I think it would bring more potential buyers from those countries.

 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

I had an idea when the flag DLC was released.

Why not nations inside of the actual nation?

 

For example: 

GB: Portugal.

Pirates: Barbary States.

 

I think it would bring more potential buyers from those countries.

I've been suggesting that for a long time now. I'm still waiting for them to add the Portugal flags inside GB nation, specially because they were allieds in that era and second, Portugal had more involvement in the Caribbean than the Russians/Prussians, I still don't understand why they weren't added. 

I'm all forward on reducing the numbers of Nations in the game, this will bring a lot of players to 4~5 specific nations and it will feel/play like it has more players around in the map than right now.

Pirates shouldn't be made with privateers, privateers were considered pirates in the eyes of the royal navy, there were a lot of pirates that became privateers, but there were privateers that didn't or wasn't pirate in the first place, there was a lot of cases where the person couldn't join the navy, built or bought a ship, gathered a crew and got the letter of marquee to go out on the sea, plunding merchant ships in the name of the crown, it was a duty.  Also a lot of captains from other nations did that aswell. Bartholomew Português (the creator of the Pirate code) was a Portuguese pirate that became a privateer for the Great Britain to fight the Spanish around Campeche.

I still think Pirates should be able to become privateers. Go to a nation, buy the letter of marquee with some doubloons and the person can't leave the privateer life until 30 days IRL, kinda like the name change/nation change. Once you become a privateer, you can only leave after 30 days, if you don't wanna leave, you just stay as a privateer. There should be some privateer flags with the DLC flags aswell, some kind of title aswell, so we can always tell whether the person is a Naval Officer, Pirate or a Privateer.

Edited by Portuguese Privateer
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55 minutes ago, Christendom said:

Copying my suggestion from the other post.   This was originally @rediii's idea

cut half the nations in the game and just create one “outlaw” sandbox faction that fights each other and is clan based.  Then have 4 or 5 historical nations that are PVE/PVP based that are starter nations.  

The outlaw clan can select which national flags to use from an assortment and to use REDS as an example.... North puts in his clan info that it’s a Russian clan and they have access to one or 2 Built in Russia flags + the dlc stuff.  

Outlaw clans can do whatever the my want, craft from free towns... PVP.., RVR.  Whatever.  

It could work.

The good thing is that many secondary nations can fit inside that "outlaw" faction. More nations represented, more people interested.

All of those will have the same rules as the current hardcore nations. 

Anything to decrease the low numbers some nations have due to having to choose among 11 nations.

 

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2 hours ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Difficulty is based on strategic position, not on player bravery.

Then why is the US easy mode when their territory is backed up against a wall, with no freeport to craft ships out of? LR was taken away before crafting outcomes were introduced. Now instead of people basing out of the FP, we have 4 different nations along the FL coast who all they do is hunt capitals like a bunch of noobs. Even the rats feel that way and their our closest partners in crime.

Edited by Slim McSauce

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1 hour ago, Christendom said:

Copying my suggestion from the other post.   This was originally @rediii's idea

cut half the nations in the game and just create one “outlaw” sandbox faction that fights each other and is clan based.  Then have 4 or 5 historical nations that are PVE/PVP based that are starter nations.  

The outlaw clan can select which national flags to use from an assortment and to use REDS as an example.... North puts in his clan info that it’s a Russian clan and they have access to one or 2 Built in Russia flags + the dlc stuff.  

Outlaw clans can do whatever the my want, craft from free towns... PVP.., RVR.  Whatever.  

Stop fooling yourself, this brilliant idea would never be implemented, let alone tested

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1 hour ago, Slim McSauce said:

Then why is the US easy mode when their territory is backed up against a wall, with no freeport to craft ships out of? LR was taken away before crafting outcomes were introduced. Now instead of people basing out of the FP, we have 4 different nations along the FL coast who all they do is hunt capitals like a bunch of noobs. Even the rats feel that way and their our closest partners in crime.

I think you misunderstood.

US, in map start ( and now ) is all about East coast Conquest. They have one way out and enemies have one way in.

Compared to Sweden or Denmark, for example, which are immediately on map start, trapped between 3 enemies - France, Denmark and Dutch for Sweden, and Spain, Sweden and Dutch for Denmark.

How the map evolves is all how players act or what they can achieve. 

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I'd actually be interested in reducing the number of factions, but I'd encourage 7 total (like the game Diplomacy).  I wouldn't recommend any special features or functions for any faction.

As to which ones to keep?  I'd just recommend merging or removing those least populated.

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3 hours ago, Christendom said:

Copying my suggestion from the other post.   This was originally @rediii's idea

cut half the nations in the game and just create one “outlaw” sandbox faction that fights each other and is clan based.  Then have 4 or 5 historical nations that are PVE/PVP based that are starter nations.  

The outlaw clan can select which national flags to use from an assortment and to use REDS as an example.... North puts in his clan info that it’s a Russian clan and they have access to one or 2 Built in Russia flags + the dlc stuff.  

Outlaw clans can do whatever the my want, craft from free towns... PVP.., RVR.  Whatever.  

I like this idea but I assume the historical starter nations can not participate in RvR and have some uncapturable ports? Having only "easy" nations with uncapturable ports and safezones makes a lot more sense as trade-off for not being able to take part in RvR. But I would make only 3 PvE starter nations not 4-5 or they take up too much space on the map ( unless we get a bigger map ;) ). Non RvR starter nations with safe ports / zones should be GB, Spain and France.

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7 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

And we are suggestion dropping the 11 nations thing and go to 4 core nations and 1-2 pirate/privateer nations.  We have way to many nations, some of them weren't in this time zone even involved.  RUSSIA never had any involvement, Poland had some troops sent there, Prussia 200 years before had a port, but by this time had little to no Navy.   So why not make all these special nations a Privateer nation for folks that want to play them?    Why just Poland?  Why not the other nations that aren't suppose to be here?  I don't get...oh cause the few players that wanted Poland aren't active any more and it's a dead nation that maybe 10-20 players are keeping alive?  I don't see why we can't combine more than one suggestion on the same basic view of things?

 

PS don't forget to put tags in the post or Admin/Devs won't look at it.

Actually Prussia NEVER had ANY ports in the carribean. What you're refering to was the Hanseatic Turtle Island, ingame Vieques and the "colony" was a smattering of barracks made for resupplying ships. After the Hanseatic port of Hamburg got a trade deal that allowed it to settle and refurbish its ships on St. Thomas the turtle island was abandoned. Just to reiterate - Prussia never had any ports in the carribean.

The historically correct nations in the carribean:

Spain - by far the largest., GB, France, VP, DK, SW - I don't add the US since it doesn't get its independence before 1783, an argument could be made to include it tho.

Pirates was never, and has never had its "Pirate republic", not if you take any actual research on the development of nations serious. I for one would add it but limit it to 5th rates, (larger could be capped or bought), no RvR but raiding and nations should be able to open their ports for pirates. Secondly pirates should be able to hoist false colours untill they get into tagging range of an enemy ship - i.e. create a different sort of gameplay for the pirates.

As far as I'm concerned all ahistorical nations are cartoon nations that should never have been introduced. Historical nations are however a necessity. Otherwise we might as well redo the map since the current one is perhaps the worst imaginable from a gameplay perspective. Then the baltic, mediterranean or SE asian archipelagos would prob introduce more interesting gameplay venues.

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5 hours ago, Sovereign said:

I like this idea but I assume the historical starter nations can not participate in RvR and have some uncapturable ports? Having only "easy" nations with uncapturable ports and safezones makes a lot more sense as trade-off for not being able to take part in RvR. But I would make only 3 PvE starter nations not 4-5 or they take up too much space on the map ( unless we get a bigger map ;) ). Non RvR starter nations with safe ports / zones should be GB, Spain and France.

A bigger map is a mistake and there is no sense in those pure PVE nations when they were the most active ones in that time.

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4 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

A bigger map is a mistake and there is no sense in those pure PVE nations when they were the most active ones in that time.

Agreed, rather - make the gulf a PvP/PvE zone with reinforcementzones around regional capitals and no RvR in the region. That way casuals can enjoy aspects of the game and hardliners can have a game closer to historical reality.

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5 minutes ago, Lars Kjaer said:

Agreed, rather - make the gulf a PvP/PvE zone with reinforcementzones around regional capitals and no RvR in the region. That way casuals can enjoy aspects of the game and hardliners can have a game closer to historical reality.

I believe that we have enough pve zones with those large reinforcement zones of france, usa, spain and britain. Which is why the devs put them as easy nations.

 

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Less nations, and wars between clans of the same nation. Privateer nation consisting of small nations with flags, and pirate faction, hardcore not a nation. Would be great :)  

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I think quite a lot of people have been having this same idea for a long time, the amount of nations currently in the game is crazy and excessive especially when you think of how few actual players the game has retained now. There is no real reason why the game shouldn't have 2-4 factions and it would be better for everyone.

I fully agree with the whole nations within nations idea and we could loosely base factions on say the napoleonic wars and lump together something like this:

1) France, USA, Spain, Denmark, Poland

2) Britain, Sweden, Russia, Prussia, Netherlands

3) Pirates

Then you could always add other nations like Portugal and the Italian states or whoever else you please to give national identity within the factions involved.

Edited by Fluffy Fishy
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30 minutes ago, Fluffy Fishy said:

I think quite a lot of people have been having this same idea for a long time, the amount of nations currently in the game is crazy and excessive especially when you think of how few actual players the game has retained now. There is no real reason why the game shouldn't have 2-4 factions and it would be better for everyone.

I fully agree with the whole nations within nations idea and we could loosely base factions on say the napoleonic wars and lump together something like this:

1) France, USA, Spain, Denmark, Poland

2) Britain, Sweden, Russia, Prussia, Netherlands

3) Pirates

Then you could always add other nations like Portugal and the Italian states or whoever else you please to give national identity within the factions involved.

Lumping nations together on the basis of the napoleonic wars would actually be something I could accept as historically accurate. Tho the Netherlands wasn't in the british alliance since it.. kinda ceased to exist and had a Bonaparte installed as a figurehead.. The US would be a neutral faction, but I can live with the inaccuracy.. ish..

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The real cancer are clans, not nations. Drop clans entirely and let people assemble for goals temporarily set, announced on some message board in port. Like someone sets up a specific mission "Let's conquer port X" or "I build a 2nd rate for anyone who accompanies me for project Y" and who likes signs the mission, agrees to conditions like in a contract and takes part in a task force, wins or loses its fruits. Dissolved after completion.

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14 minutes ago, Lars Kjaer said:

Lumping nations together on the basis of the napoleonic wars would actually be something I could accept as historically accurate. Tho the Netherlands wasn't in the british alliance since it.. kinda ceased to exist and had a Bonaparte installed as a figurehead.. The US would be a neutral faction, but I can live with the inaccuracy.. ish..

I wasn't really sure where to put the Dutch, I figured it suits them to be there because that gives 5 of the current factions to each side, realistically they should probably be with the French as the Batavian Republic during the Napoleonic period but that leaves a slightly uncomfortable imbalance with 6 nations to 4, although realistically numbers of nations don't really matter much, with player numbers being the real driving force. It was just a rough suggestion for potential grouping.

You can always add a bunch of other internal flavour nations to each faction leaving you with something like:

1) France, USA, Spain, Denmark, Poland + Kingdom of Italy, Confederacy of the Rhine, Kingdom of Naples

2) Britain, Sweden, Russia, Prussia, Netherlands + Austria, Portugal, Ottomans

3) Pirates + Berbers

Alternatively you could also split potential flavour nations between the factions that represent the same area to create something like:

1) France etc + Batavian Republic, Kingdom of Italy, Confederacy of the Rhine

2) Britain etc + Netherlands, Italian States, Holy Roman Empire

3) Pirates

Alternatively you could create a slightly more complicated system of core factions then the additional nations where you use the current Alliance system to block the more loose states like the Netherlands or the USA to belong to either one of the core factions but with the fluidity to swap between the two but thats getting a bit more complex.

Either way establishing two major factions and have  as well pirates would at least in my mind be very beneficial to the game and likely sort out some of the major issues the game has with PVP and RVR and the dynamics it currently has.

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7 hours ago, Sovereign said:

I like this idea but I assume the historical starter nations can not participate in RvR and have some uncapturable ports? Having only "easy" nations with uncapturable ports and safezones makes a lot more sense as trade-off for not being able to take part in RvR. But I would make only 3 PvE starter nations not 4-5 or they take up too much space on the map ( unless we get a bigger map ;) ). Non RvR starter nations with safe ports / zones should be GB, Spain and France.

Yea basically 4 or 5 nations would be starter nations with no RVR, but events generated by the server.  Trafalagar style stuff.  No port loss or captures.  Or you could even give them a region to fight over like Haiti and have sort of an RVR with gloves on.  

Then introduce 1 hardcore faction that is pure RVR or privateering. Make it a catch all for everything.  Players can hoist the black or create a clan with a national flag like Russia or Prussia and go RVR in designated areas of the map with total port loss, clan controlled port entry and free towns.  

So to expand on the clan thing a tiny bit more.  Let’s say Player X joins the new hardcore nation.  He creates a clan and then selects a flag.  Let’s say Russia.  This makes his clan a Russian themed one and has access to Russian flag DLC.  To change that flag/national theme you have to purchase so in game item like a letter of marque.  Same goes for solo players in the hardcore nation.  

Sounds like a game I’d want to play

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So basically the idea is to get rid of ahistorical nations via implementing something that is even more ahistorical? This is kind of hypocrite imho. Making the game even more clan based and change the 4-5 major nations into mostly PvE nations or at least keeping them out of RvR and so limiting content to an even smaller player base that join the so called hardcore faction? I honestly don't see a necessity for all of this. Everything you want is already possible. Well, except for real control and modification of ports by the owner. That is a thing I also would really like to see, that the owner (a clan) can shape a port how they like it (defenses, taxes,trading, buildings etc).

But everything else seems to me like fixing a problem that isn't there. Or I simply don't see it (can happen ) because I am not very versed in RvR and maybe should shut up about it ;) .

Just say what you really want. You want a game that is totally clan based with flags, nations and factions more or less being cosmetic. That isn't the game I want. that's my opinion on this.

I am not even sure that getting rid of some nations means more battles, RvR and PvP. If the overall amount of players stays the same, there will be even less players to fight if some of the prussians, russians and poles are now with you in the british navy. Going the other route and adding more nations also doesn't mean more PvP either. I agree we have to find a healthy balance with amount of factions. 

On the other hand a nation maybe has more players, who can take part in RvR that way but not if it gets artificially limited by making it even more clan based. But I am not sure on that either

What keeps people from RvR now and how can we change that? I don't think adding a "hardcore" faction for clans and keeping the others out is a solution.

Edited by Cecil Selous
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