A Suggestion to Reduce the Number of Factions

[Sir Texas Sir]

Just now, Powderhorn said:

There is no reason to make this any more than what it is.  All I'm suggesting is renaming the Commonwealth of Poland and adding those flags that are not appropriate for other factions, to make it more appealing for more people.  Everything else, including re-hashing ideas already tested and new mechanics, should be taken to their own threads.

And we are suggestion dropping the 11 nations thing and go to 4 core nations and 1-2 pirate/privateer nations.  We have way to many nations, some of them weren't in this time zone even involved.  RUSSIA never had any involvement, Poland had some troops sent there, Prussia 200 years before had a port, but by this time had little to no Navy.   So why not make all these special nations a Privateer nation for folks that want to play them?    Why just Poland?  Why not the other nations that aren't suppose to be here?  I don't get...oh cause the few players that wanted Poland aren't active any more and it's a dead nation that maybe 10-20 players are keeping alive?  I don't see why we can't combine more than one suggestion on the same basic view of things?

 

PS don't forget to put tags in the post or Admin/Devs won't look at it.

[Slim McSauce]

Now that flags are introduced, you can just have the 1-2 privateer nations, and simply let them pick the flags that most match their origin or whatever.
RvR doesn't need a dozen nations on the board, I would argue no game needs more than 5 or 6 factions, if you're expecting those factions to fight against each other.
The nation difficulty is the dumbest thing I've seen yet, it's hilarious that anyone would think they can rank the difficulty of a collection of people without even considering the people element.
US is obviously not an "easy nation", no nation has it easy so lets just get rid of that assumption, and bring back large scale RVR for the official nations.

Edited January 12, 2019 by Slim McSauce

[Hethwill]

Difficulty is based on strategic position, not on player bravery.

[Christendom]

Copying my suggestion from the other post.   This was originally @rediii's idea

cut half the nations in the game and just create one “outlaw” sandbox faction that fights each other and is clan based.  Then have 4 or 5 historical nations that are PVE/PVP based that are starter nations.  

The outlaw clan can select which national flags to use from an assortment and to use REDS as an example.... North puts in his clan info that it’s a Russian clan and they have access to one or 2 Built in Russia flags + the dlc stuff.  

Outlaw clans can do whatever the my want, craft from free towns... PVP.., RVR.  Whatever.  

[Marquês do Bonfim]

24 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

I had an idea when the flag DLC was released.

Why not nations inside of the actual nation?

 

For example: 

GB: Portugal.

Pirates: Barbary States.

 

I think it would bring more potential buyers from those countries.

I've been suggesting that for a long time now. I'm still waiting for them to add the Portugal flags inside GB nation, specially because they were allieds in that era and second, Portugal had more involvement in the Caribbean than the Russians/Prussians, I still don't understand why they weren't added. 

I'm all forward on reducing the numbers of Nations in the game, this will bring a lot of players to 4~5 specific nations and it will feel/play like it has more players around in the map than right now.

Pirates shouldn't be made with privateers, privateers were considered pirates in the eyes of the royal navy, there were a lot of pirates that became privateers, but there were privateers that didn't or wasn't pirate in the first place, there was a lot of cases where the person couldn't join the navy, built or bought a ship, gathered a crew and got the letter of marquee to go out on the sea, plunding merchant ships in the name of the crown, it was a duty.  Also a lot of captains from other nations did that aswell. Bartholomew Português (the creator of the Pirate code) was a Portuguese pirate that became a privateer for the Great Britain to fight the Spanish around Campeche.

I still think Pirates should be able to become privateers. Go to a nation, buy the letter of marquee with some doubloons and the person can't leave the privateer life until 30 days IRL, kinda like the name change/nation change. Once you become a privateer, you can only leave after 30 days, if you don't wanna leave, you just stay as a privateer. There should be some privateer flags with the DLC flags aswell, some kind of title aswell, so we can always tell whether the person is a Naval Officer, Pirate or a Privateer.

Edited January 13, 2019 by Portuguese Privateer

[Slim McSauce]

2 hours ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Difficulty is based on strategic position, not on player bravery.

Then why is the US easy mode when their territory is backed up against a wall, with no freeport to craft ships out of? LR was taken away before crafting outcomes were introduced. Now instead of people basing out of the FP, we have 4 different nations along the FL coast who all they do is hunt capitals like a bunch of noobs. Even the rats feel that way and their our closest partners in crime.

Edited January 13, 2019 by Slim McSauce

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Christendom said:

Copying my suggestion from the other post.   This was originally @rediii's idea

cut half the nations in the game and just create one “outlaw” sandbox faction that fights each other and is clan based.  Then have 4 or 5 historical nations that are PVE/PVP based that are starter nations.  

The outlaw clan can select which national flags to use from an assortment and to use REDS as an example.... North puts in his clan info that it’s a Russian clan and they have access to one or 2 Built in Russia flags + the dlc stuff.  

Outlaw clans can do whatever the my want, craft from free towns... PVP.., RVR.  Whatever.  

Stop fooling yourself, this brilliant idea would never be implemented, let alone tested

[Christendom]

1 hour ago, Wyy said:

Stop fooling yourself, this brilliant idea would never be implemented, let alone tested

why must you wound me so..

[Hethwill]

1 hour ago, Slim McSauce said:

Then why is the US easy mode when their territory is backed up against a wall, with no freeport to craft ships out of? LR was taken away before crafting outcomes were introduced. Now instead of people basing out of the FP, we have 4 different nations along the FL coast who all they do is hunt capitals like a bunch of noobs. Even the rats feel that way and their our closest partners in crime.

I think you misunderstood.

US, in map start ( and now ) is all about East coast Conquest. They have one way out and enemies have one way in.

Compared to Sweden or Denmark, for example, which are immediately on map start, trapped between 3 enemies - France, Denmark and Dutch for Sweden, and Spain, Sweden and Dutch for Denmark.

How the map evolves is all how players act or what they can achieve. 

[Powderhorn]

I'd actually be interested in reducing the number of factions, but I'd encourage 7 total (like the game Diplomacy).  I wouldn't recommend any special features or functions for any faction.

As to which ones to keep?  I'd just recommend merging or removing those least populated.

[Njord]

3 hours ago, Christendom said:

Copying my suggestion from the other post.   This was originally @rediii's idea

cut half the nations in the game and just create one “outlaw” sandbox faction that fights each other and is clan based.  Then have 4 or 5 historical nations that are PVE/PVP based that are starter nations.  

The outlaw clan can select which national flags to use from an assortment and to use REDS as an example.... North puts in his clan info that it’s a Russian clan and they have access to one or 2 Built in Russia flags + the dlc stuff.  

Outlaw clans can do whatever the my want, craft from free towns... PVP.., RVR.  Whatever.  

I like this idea but I assume the historical starter nations can not participate in RvR and have some uncapturable ports? Having only "easy" nations with uncapturable ports and safezones makes a lot more sense as trade-off for not being able to take part in RvR. But I would make only 3 PvE starter nations not 4-5 or they take up too much space on the map ( unless we get a bigger map  ). Non RvR starter nations with safe ports / zones should be GB, Spain and France.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

And we are suggestion dropping the 11 nations thing and go to 4 core nations and 1-2 pirate/privateer nations.  We have way to many nations, some of them weren't in this time zone even involved.  RUSSIA never had any involvement, Poland had some troops sent there, Prussia 200 years before had a port, but by this time had little to no Navy.   So why not make all these special nations a Privateer nation for folks that want to play them?    Why just Poland?  Why not the other nations that aren't suppose to be here?  I don't get...oh cause the few players that wanted Poland aren't active any more and it's a dead nation that maybe 10-20 players are keeping alive?  I don't see why we can't combine more than one suggestion on the same basic view of things?

 

PS don't forget to put tags in the post or Admin/Devs won't look at it.

Actually Prussia NEVER had ANY ports in the carribean. What you're refering to was the Hanseatic Turtle Island, ingame Vieques and the "colony" was a smattering of barracks made for resupplying ships. After the Hanseatic port of Hamburg got a trade deal that allowed it to settle and refurbish its ships on St. Thomas the turtle island was abandoned. Just to reiterate - Prussia never had any ports in the carribean.

The historically correct nations in the carribean:

Spain - by far the largest., GB, France, VP, DK, SW - I don't add the US since it doesn't get its independence before 1783, an argument could be made to include it tho.

Pirates was never, and has never had its "Pirate republic", not if you take any actual research on the development of nations serious. I for one would add it but limit it to 5th rates, (larger could be capped or bought), no RvR but raiding and nations should be able to open their ports for pirates. Secondly pirates should be able to hoist false colours untill they get into tagging range of an enemy ship - i.e. create a different sort of gameplay for the pirates.

As far as I'm concerned all ahistorical nations are cartoon nations that should never have been introduced. Historical nations are however a necessity. Otherwise we might as well redo the map since the current one is perhaps the worst imaginable from a gameplay perspective. Then the baltic, mediterranean or SE asian archipelagos would prob introduce more interesting gameplay venues.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

A bigger map is a mistake and there is no sense in those pure PVE nations when they were the most active ones in that time.

Agreed, rather - make the gulf a PvP/PvE zone with reinforcementzones around regional capitals and no RvR in the region. That way casuals can enjoy aspects of the game and hardliners can have a game closer to historical reality.

[AeRoTR]

Less nations, and wars between clans of the same nation. Privateer nation consisting of small nations with flags, and pirate faction, hardcore not a nation. Would be great   

[Fluffy Fishy]

I think quite a lot of people have been having this same idea for a long time, the amount of nations currently in the game is crazy and excessive especially when you think of how few actual players the game has retained now. There is no real reason why the game shouldn't have 2-4 factions and it would be better for everyone.

I fully agree with the whole nations within nations idea and we could loosely base factions on say the napoleonic wars and lump together something like this:

1) France, USA, Spain, Denmark, Poland

2) Britain, Sweden, Russia, Prussia, Netherlands

3) Pirates

Then you could always add other nations like Portugal and the Italian states or whoever else you please to give national identity within the factions involved.

Edited January 13, 2019 by Fluffy Fishy

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, Fluffy Fishy said:

I think quite a lot of people have been having this same idea for a long time, the amount of nations currently in the game is crazy and excessive especially when you think of how few actual players the game has retained now. There is no real reason why the game shouldn't have 2-4 factions and it would be better for everyone.

I fully agree with the whole nations within nations idea and we could loosely base factions on say the napoleonic wars and lump together something like this:

1) France, USA, Spain, Denmark, Poland

2) Britain, Sweden, Russia, Prussia, Netherlands

3) Pirates

Then you could always add other nations like Portugal and the Italian states or whoever else you please to give national identity within the factions involved.

Lumping nations together on the basis of the napoleonic wars would actually be something I could accept as historically accurate. Tho the Netherlands wasn't in the british alliance since it.. kinda ceased to exist and had a Bonaparte installed as a figurehead.. The US would be a neutral faction, but I can live with the inaccuracy.. ish..

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

The real cancer are clans, not nations. Drop clans entirely and let people assemble for goals temporarily set, announced on some message board in port. Like someone sets up a specific mission "Let's conquer port X" or "I build a 2nd rate for anyone who accompanies me for project Y" and who likes signs the mission, agrees to conditions like in a contract and takes part in a task force, wins or loses its fruits. Dissolved after completion.

[Fluffy Fishy]

14 minutes ago, Lars Kjaer said:

Lumping nations together on the basis of the napoleonic wars would actually be something I could accept as historically accurate. Tho the Netherlands wasn't in the british alliance since it.. kinda ceased to exist and had a Bonaparte installed as a figurehead.. The US would be a neutral faction, but I can live with the inaccuracy.. ish..

I wasn't really sure where to put the Dutch, I figured it suits them to be there because that gives 5 of the current factions to each side, realistically they should probably be with the French as the Batavian Republic during the Napoleonic period but that leaves a slightly uncomfortable imbalance with 6 nations to 4, although realistically numbers of nations don't really matter much, with player numbers being the real driving force. It was just a rough suggestion for potential grouping.

You can always add a bunch of other internal flavour nations to each faction leaving you with something like:

1) France, USA, Spain, Denmark, Poland + Kingdom of Italy, Confederacy of the Rhine, Kingdom of Naples

2) Britain, Sweden, Russia, Prussia, Netherlands + Austria, Portugal, Ottomans

3) Pirates + Berbers

Alternatively you could also split potential flavour nations between the factions that represent the same area to create something like:

1) France etc + Batavian Republic, Kingdom of Italy, Confederacy of the Rhine

2) Britain etc + Netherlands, Italian States, Holy Roman Empire

3) Pirates

Alternatively you could create a slightly more complicated system of core factions then the additional nations where you use the current Alliance system to block the more loose states like the Netherlands or the USA to belong to either one of the core factions but with the fluidity to swap between the two but thats getting a bit more complex.

Either way establishing two major factions and have  as well pirates would at least in my mind be very beneficial to the game and likely sort out some of the major issues the game has with PVP and RVR and the dynamics it currently has.

[Christendom]

7 hours ago, Sovereign said:

I like this idea but I assume the historical starter nations can not participate in RvR and have some uncapturable ports? Having only "easy" nations with uncapturable ports and safezones makes a lot more sense as trade-off for not being able to take part in RvR. But I would make only 3 PvE starter nations not 4-5 or they take up too much space on the map ( unless we get a bigger map  ). Non RvR starter nations with safe ports / zones should be GB, Spain and France.

Yea basically 4 or 5 nations would be starter nations with no RVR, but events generated by the server.  Trafalagar style stuff.  No port loss or captures.  Or you could even give them a region to fight over like Haiti and have sort of an RVR with gloves on.  

Then introduce 1 hardcore faction that is pure RVR or privateering. Make it a catch all for everything.  Players can hoist the black or create a clan with a national flag like Russia or Prussia and go RVR in designated areas of the map with total port loss, clan controlled port entry and free towns.  

So to expand on the clan thing a tiny bit more.  Let’s say Player X joins the new hardcore nation.  He creates a clan and then selects a flag.  Let’s say Russia.  This makes his clan a Russian themed one and has access to Russian flag DLC.  To change that flag/national theme you have to purchase so in game item like a letter of marque.  Same goes for solo players in the hardcore nation.  

Sounds like a game I’d want to play

[Njord]

15 minutes ago, Christendom said:

Sounds like a game I’d want to play

It certainly would be grand.

[Cecil Selous]

So basically the idea is to get rid of ahistorical nations via implementing something that is even more ahistorical? This is kind of hypocrite imho. Making the game even more clan based and change the 4-5 major nations into mostly PvE nations or at least keeping them out of RvR and so limiting content to an even smaller player base that join the so called hardcore faction? I honestly don't see a necessity for all of this. Everything you want is already possible. Well, except for real control and modification of ports by the owner. That is a thing I also would really like to see, that the owner (a clan) can shape a port how they like it (defenses, taxes,trading, buildings etc).

But everything else seems to me like fixing a problem that isn't there. Or I simply don't see it (can happen ) because I am not very versed in RvR and maybe should shut up about it  .

Just say what you really want. You want a game that is totally clan based with flags, nations and factions more or less being cosmetic. That isn't the game I want. that's my opinion on this.

I am not even sure that getting rid of some nations means more battles, RvR and PvP. If the overall amount of players stays the same, there will be even less players to fight if some of the prussians, russians and poles are now with you in the british navy. Going the other route and adding more nations also doesn't mean more PvP either. I agree we have to find a healthy balance with amount of factions. 

On the other hand a nation maybe has more players, who can take part in RvR that way but not if it gets artificially limited by making it even more clan based. But I am not sure on that either

What keeps people from RvR now and how can we change that? I don't think adding a "hardcore" faction for clans and keeping the others out is a solution.

Edited January 13, 2019 by Cecil Selous

[Sir Texas Sir]

13 hours ago, Portuguese Privateer said:

I've been suggesting that for a long time now. I'm still waiting for them to add the Portugal flags inside GB nation, specially because they were allieds in that era and second, Portugal had more involvement in the Caribbean than the Russians/Prussians, I still don't understand why they weren't added. 

I'm all forward on reducing the numbers of Nations in the game, this will bring a lot of players to 4~5 specific nations and it will feel/play like it has more players around in the map than right now.

Pirates shouldn't be made with privateers, privateers were considered pirates in the eyes of the royal navy, there were a lot of pirates that became privateers, but there were privateers that didn't or wasn't pirate in the first place, there was a lot of cases where the person couldn't join the navy, built or bought a ship, gathered a crew and got the letter of marquee to go out on the sea, plunding merchant ships in the name of the crown, it was a duty.  Also a lot of captains from other nations did that aswell. Bartholomew Português (the creator of the Pirate code) was a Portuguese pirate that became a privateer for the Great Britain to fight the Spanish around Campeche.

I still think Pirates should be able to become privateers. Go to a nation, buy the letter of marquee with some doubloons and the person can't leave the privateer life until 30 days IRL, kinda like the name change/nation change. Once you become a privateer, you can only leave after 30 days, if you don't wanna leave, you just stay as a privateer. There should be some privateer flags with the DLC flags aswell, some kind of title aswell, so we can always tell whether the person is a Naval Officer, Pirate or a Privateer.

What is a Privateer without a job?  Nothing more than a pirate.

We have forge papers so if some one doesn't like the pirate life they could always delete your char or guess it?  Yes use forge papers to return to a nation they want to fight in the royal navy with.  I still think pirates should never be a chargen faction. Privateer could be as they are a starter carrier for many young captians.  Make it so the only way to become a PIrate is in game and you have to use forge papers or delete your char and start over if that is your play style or you didn't want to pay for forge papers.  I would still say limit privateers to only OW PvP and no RvR to balance the game incase there are way to many Privateers and not enough nationals.   This way it caters to only the OW hard core PvP players not the RvR guys.   If you want to help with RvR than you can get hired to screen for nationals so they can just worry about PB's inside and not the out side part, but be warned other nations could hire there own privateers too. 

I would love to see a contract system something like MWO has for mercs for the privateers.  For a set amount of time, lets say 1 week or 1 month a clan can get a contract (Letter of Marque) for a nation.  While under that contract the can use the ports of that nation (still can't own any of there own) and fight for that nations in PB's and such, but they are only hired hands not perm members of that nation so they can't have ports of there own, just help National clans to take them or defend them.  This could be a way that Pirates can become Privateers for a short time. Once their LoM is expire though they return back to being pirate/outlaws.  This would be a good reason for the game to actually have a reputation system too.

[Sir Texas Sir]

4 hours ago, Fluffy Fishy said:

I think quite a lot of people have been having this same idea for a long time, the amount of nations currently in the game is crazy and excessive especially when you think of how few actual players the game has retained now. There is no real reason why the game shouldn't have 2-4 factions and it would be better for everyone.

I fully agree with the whole nations within nations idea and we could loosely base factions on say the napoleonic wars and lump together something like this:

1) France, USA, Spain, Denmark, Poland

2) Britain, Sweden, Russia, Prussia, Netherlands

3) Pirates

Then you could always add other nations like Portugal and the Italian states or whoever else you please to give national identity within the factions involved.

The only issue I have is that Napoleonic Wars was a very short time of the in game 1700-1820 (or is it 1830?) time table?   That is why I was suggestion something more like this.

1)  France

2) Spain

3)  GB, US (they where part of GB way longer), Portugal (since it's been brought up, but I would put them more in the privateer group cause of the Treaty of Tordesillas).

3) Dutch - I picked Dutch over the Danes and Swedes cause they had a bigger influence in these waters than the other two did.

4)  Pirate/outlaws- pretty much any one that doesn't want to be part of a faction (no RvR is allowed or just allow clans to control one port only).

5)  Privateers - Russian, Dane, Swedes, Poland, Prussia, maybe Portugal if not part of GB and any other nation we feel that could be added flag wise for players that want to play but don't care about RvR part and have there own national flags.  If they want to play RVR they can join the Core Nations.

Thus you have 4 core nations that can do RvR, and two OW PvP only nations that can not do RvR as they are the Hardcore OW PvP factions.  They live out of freetown and neutral ports.  I would make Mort zone a Neutral port/zone. Remember how Pitt's and opther Nuetral ports where?  That any one can use including Nationals since it's the center of the mape.  This is where Privateers and Pirates spawn from.

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

Just bring back diplomacy vote with a better system taking playerbase & activity in account, we had much more fun and RvR when it existed. 

 

Edited January 14, 2019 by Baptiste Gallouédec

[Marquês do Bonfim]

I still think players should be able to play as Neutrals, go to their respective nations of choice and buy the letter of marquee with doubloons or something with weight. Once you buy it, you will be able to do missions/RvR with them, but you wouldn't be able to make a PB on your own, only participate.

Letter of Marquee should be something available to everyone, if you start your career as a neutral player or a pirate, you should be able to become a privateer. Once you get the letter of marquee and become a privateer, you shouldn't be able to leave the privateer life until 30 days of service or more (2 months, idk), no expiration date afterwards, once the time is up, you wouldn't be kicked off the privateer life, but you could leave if you want.

Core nations should be: Great Britan, Spain, France and Netherlands... Pirates shouldn't be a nation and neutral "nation" should be merchants and privateers. If you want to become a privateer for Great Britan, you should sail down to Kingston/Port Royal and get your letter of marquee, something simple and functional, nothing too crazy.

Pirate's den should be made by players, clans should get together and build a pirate's den for themselves, if they even want it. I know there's a lot of stuff that we can get from the admiralty, but pirates shouldn't be able to get them from pirate capitals, they should be able to sail to a nation capital with a fake flag, make port as a merchant ship and buy these stuff, like it happened a lot in real life.

 

Also, pirates and neutral players shouldn't be able to craft or even sail SOLs (specially 2nds and 1st rates), those were specificly naval ships and it was a pain in the ass to sail them because you almost needed a small island to crew it. Warships big enough like 3rd rates should be able to be only capturable and not craftable to neutral/pirate players. This will make that "nation" really for hardcore players only.

Also flags, oh flags, there should be tons of flags available for pirates and neutral players, specially flags from nations that is not in the game, so people can just fly them or role play in their clans with the flags of their own nations. I've been wanting to fly the Portuguese flag for so long now that I can't even begin with, and would love to be a privateer for the Great Britan sailing under the portuguese flag in my ship, this should be available from the get go, I still don't understand why is it taking so long.

Edited January 15, 2019 by Portuguese Privateer