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Werewolf

Good job killing off solo players.

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3 hours ago, Palatinose said:

@Sir Max Magic Hello. The issue you are discribing has been discussed on this forum multiple times. As NA is a full loot pvp game on war server the RoE on OW are what they are to a certain degree. The harm and grief done by TP back to port after battle was bigger than what we have now - in my opinion.

As for your specific situation: bad luck, because formally you did what good traders would do by sailing at night. 

For the battle instance I can only recommend to only use one fleet ship (you have more combat perks then) or if you want to take four, fit your fleet ships with guns and make proper use of the commands available. You yourself should take a ship you have leveled to a certain degree perhaps. Three Indiaman have a good punch and can cause trouble to every frigate, even two or three of them. Dont go for rigging first, you wont be able to escape anyway. Go for hull on one of the enemies, stay with your fleet all the time. This sometimes requires "follow me" function to get the fleet in row again. As soon as the target has to repair hull, you go for the rigging until sails are down to ~60-70%. Protect your own rigging by using battle sails. When the sails of the target are down there should be about 5 minutes left till his next repair, so you focus his hull again, making it hard of a choice which repair to use. When one target is down or chased off, the second one is much easier.

After all: even if you finally get killed and lose a lot: perhaps you took one with you or at least had a good fight. Sorry to say but in this situation, that's the best thing you can achieve.

 

Thx for your reply and you warm words are highly welcome :)

Despite that, being absent when the mentionend mechanic was altered, i would be interested why @admin had changed his mind in this case ?

As quoted, end of 2016, he had the opinion "escaped is escaped"...

I for myself rate this new mechanic a big fault, even lorewise, because NOW, when you escaped you get literally teleported BACK to your starting location instead of tp'd to port !!!

I dont know whats worser...but this mechanic opens doors for unlimited ganking and HUGE losses on the victims side and is and will be in future for sure, responsible for many players quitting the game, because they feel helpless against any superior attacker

 

The crazy thing regarding my case is, even when i had won the first engagement against the Endy and the Trinc and may have sunk them (impossible in my terms when facing some of the best PVPers on server), i would had get retagged immediately by the 2 Hercs waiting outside...

Even when my Fleet could be dominating both in the following battle (if i would do everything correct and had cargo full of repairs), they could just drag on the fight until my 2 hypothetical victims got "teleported" back to their port, giving them the chance to hop in new shiny boats and sail to the battle, waiting outside to retagg me again...

 

I dont understand why such "teleporting" is okay for the community but teleporting to safety like before, isnt ???

 

Edited by Sir Max Magic
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48 minutes ago, Sir Max Magic said:

 

Thx for your reply and you warm words are highly welcome :)

Despite that, being absent when the mentionend mechanic was altered, i would be interested why @admin had changed his mind in this case ?

As quoted, end of 2016, he had the opinion "escaped is escaped"...

I for myself rate this new mechanic a big fault, even lorewise, because NOW, when you escaped you get literally teleported BACK to your starting location instead of tp'd to port !!!

I dont know whats worser...but this mechanic opens doors for unlimited ganking and HUGE losses on the victims side and is and will be in future for sure, responsible for many players quitting the game, because they feel helpless against any superior attacker

 

The crazy thing regarding my case is, even when i had won the first engagement against the Endy and the Trinc and may have sunk them (impossible in my terms when facing some of the best PVPers on server), i would had get retagged immediately by the 2 Hercs waiting outside...

Even when my Fleet could be dominating both in the following battle (if i would do everything correct and had cargo full of repairs), they could just drag on the fight until my 2 hypothetical victims got "teleported" back to their port, giving them the chance to hop in new shiny boats and sail to the battle, waiting outside to retagg me again...

 

I dont understand why such "teleporting" is okay for the community but teleporting to safety like before, isnt ???

I really do sympathize with you. :( And @Palatinose 's suggestion is spot on to give yourself a chance against one, two, or even three hunters. But your inclination that it wouldn't have made any difference is certainly correct given the hunting party we had in the area. You purely were in the wrong place at the wrong time and we could join 2-3 ships at a time over and over until you were out of ships.

If I have any suggestion to add to the combat methods already discussed, it would be to run much cheaper traders. Fitting your Indiamen as Fir/Fir with only the most basic of speed mods would have certainly made us far more likely to have let you go after sinking your Endy. Alternatively, if you're going to fight it out, make sure your fleet ships also have repairs so that if you end up having to sail one because your main is sunk and you escape you actually can be battle effective in the next fight. But once it was clear that even though you were empty, they were elite, geared to the nines (Navy Hull, Copper, Bovens, etc.), with no repairs and easy pickings, the rewards of just the dropped mods plus doubloons for sinking your ship as a player over and over were too much for the more soft hearted of us to convince the others to let you go. ;) Despite being empty, under the current loot mechanics you represented a bit of a piñata to a hunting group like ours. 

I personally kind of liked the "escape you escape" mechanic, as it was far, far more friendly to new and casual players. But the instant teleport with goods in hold was a huuuuge exploit and had to be closed. Perhaps it could return as a teleport home by forfeiting your hold?  I don't know.. it's still kind of crappy since captured ships can be surrender flipped home without the possibility of them being caught and recaptured on the open sea, etc.  I'm definitely ambivalent on the subject.

 

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4 hours ago, Angus MacDuff said:

Its unfortunate that @Sir Max Magic got wiped out but this is exactly what should have happened.  A 5th rate escorting three traders got caught by 4 experienced and bloodthirsty Pirates in 5th rates.  Any other outcome would have been ridiculous and frankly, very embarrassing for the bloodthirsty Pirates! (did I mention that they were bloodthirsty?)

On the other hand they weren't able to get all of his traders in one battle. He did what everybody always tells to others who lost traders. He escorted his traders (empty in this case) with a warship and fought the attackers to maybe let his traders escape. One bot was dumb but two others escaped.

He basically "won" in a way as he managed to get away with minor losses because a Trinc and an Endy could only get 2 of his ships (I don't know if the 2 Hercs deliberately waited outside or if they were just too late to join). And as a reward he got immediately caught again and lost everything in the process. That's so nice of the game eh?

I would have no problem with that if he lost everything in the first battle but this is fishy as hell. If players can't get everything in 1h and 30 mins then they don't deserve it. But the one who escapes, deserves to live.

A reasonable fix to revenge ganking and the way we spawn in OW after a battle (other solutions then logging off in the instance or teleporting to the next port) doesn't only helps gankers. It helps traders by a lot. It rewards players who lose but manage to safe something. 

Edited by Cecil Selous
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1 minute ago, Cecil Selous said:

On the other hand they weren't able to get all of his traders in one battle. He did what everybody always tells to others who lost traders. He escorted his traders (empty in this case) with a warship and fought the attackers to maybe let his traders escape. One bot was dumb but two others escaped.

He basically "won" in a way as he managed to get away with minor losses because a Trinc and an Endy could only get 2 of his ships (I don't know if the 2 Hercs deliberately waited outside or if they were just too late to join). And as a reward he got immediately caught again and lost everything in the process. That's so nice of the game eh?

I would have no problem with that if he lost everything in the first battle but this is fishy as hell. If players can't get everything in 1h and 30 mins then they don't deserve it. But the one who escapes, deserves to live.

A reasonable fix to revenge ganking and the way we spawn in OW after a battle (other then logging off in the instance) doesn't only helps gankers. It helps traders by a lot. It rewards players who lose but manage to safe something. 

It was still 4 5th rates against a 5th and 3 traders.  The overall outcome is completely reasonable.  I say that the game mechanics in this case worked perfectly.

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No it didn't. It was 2 5th rates vs. a 5th rate and 3 traders. The other two 5th rates waited outside for "days". Maybe they were simply to late. Or maybe they waited outside to get the escaping player in case he manages to get away with 2 of his bots, while the Trinc and Endy are still busy with fighting the remaining one (I don't know exactly how it went, but this is a general possibility).

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20 minutes ago, Cecil Selous said:

On the other hand they weren't able to get all of his traders in one battle. He did what everybody always tells to others who lost traders. He escorted his traders (empty in this case) with a warship and fought the attackers to maybe let his traders escape. One bot was dumb but two others escaped.

He basically "won" in a way as he managed to get away with minor losses because a Trinc and an Endy could only get 2 of his ships (I don't know if the 2 Hercs deliberately waited outside or if they were just too late to join). And as a reward he got immediately caught again and lost everything in the process. That's so nice of the game eh?

I would have no problem with that if he lost everything in the first battle but this is fishy as hell. If players can't get everything in 1h and 30 mins then they don't deserve it. But the one who escapes, deserves to live.

A reasonable fix to revenge ganking and the way we spawn in OW after a battle (other solutions then logging off in the instance or teleporting to the next port) doesn't only helps gankers. It helps traders by a lot. It rewards players who lose but manage to safe something. 

 

14 minutes ago, Cecil Selous said:

No it didn't. It was 2 5th rates vs. a 5th rate and 3 traders. The other two 5th rates waited outside for "days". Maybe they were simply to late. Or maybe they waited outside to get the escaping player in case he manages to get away with 2 of his bots, while the Trinc and Endy are still busy with fighting the remaining one (I don't know exactly how it went, but this is a general possibility).

You are absolutely right and what bothers me the most is, that the game can create hopeless situations in which you can only but lose everything :(

Ofc, as @Wraith stated i was extremly unlucky, getting caught at 3am servertime in the midst of nowhere with only British Ports around (what did you Guys there in the first place :P) BUT their have to be atleast the possibility to survive with some parts or you could just alt + F4 and go to bed because outcome is the same...

I understand the reason behind the logg off mechanic, but letting you escape only to get you teleported back, is the same unrealistic feature as it was teleporting to nearest port after a battle !!

...and the 2 min logg off timer on OW is faaaar too long to escape a ganking fleet with logging off... (keep in mind that if you survived the battle, you had already escaped !!!)

 

And what didnt had been mentionend here is, what about REAL LIFE ???

What if you have to go after 1, 2 or 3hours when you initially had only planned to do a 30 minute trip ?? Dont log in at all when you dont have time the whole night ???

Edited by Sir Max Magic
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55 minutes ago, Sir Max Magic said:

...

And what didnt had been mentionend here is, what about REAL LIFE ???

What if you have to go after 1, 2 or 3hours when you initially had only planned to do a 30 minute trip ?? Dont log in at all when you dont have time the whole night ???

First and foremost: this.

Because we are espected to play not as a job.

Moreover, contrary to someone's opinion, as I knew, it's not an unlikely situation among our population.

 

That said, it's the same problem discussed at the same time here with some mediate possible solutions:

 

Edited by Licinio Chiavari
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I'd like to apologize to all of you for my original post. I was very upset and disappointed, but I only care so much because I love this game. I've spent countless hours and had some great battles, and met many skilled captains. I'm sorry for being a keyboard warrior. I was just very frustrated. I've taken some weeks now to mull it over, and have decided I responded to difficulty in the wrong way.

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Solo player experience was made drastically easier since release. Multiple systems were introduced allowing players to recover in battles, limited chain, invisibility after battles, laser stern guns, damage system was tuned to give skilled players options to win 3v1. I have no idea where is the statement comes from.

Practice and you will win outnumbered. Solo experience exist. But remember. Nelson would not win trafalgar solo. Same here. Its fine. 

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On 1/8/2019 at 11:09 AM, Hethwill said:

There are plenty of solo players out there that embraced the challenge.

 

i dont embrace being ganked by 5 requins to be honest. I have the wind and 30 seconds later I do not. It is quite hard to do competitive pvp atm. Around LT I would get competitive battles alot but when dlc ships were added I lost 5 ships in a row to requin ganks. I have not hunted in opensea ever since those ships were added. I tried a few weeks ago and lost another ship to them. Even the pvp zones are to artificial in my opinion. Its against what sandbox and an age of sail game should be. There is really nothing interesting in search and destroy missions. Might aswell make it lobby based. I don't even know how the ROE of them work because I was jumped in almost every battle i have ever done in them so I won't even bother try again. Anyway its all hard to judge since without a stable 1000-1500 players online there will never be any proper sandbox experience anymore. The Towers around capitals should be super OP but ai reeinforcements should be removed and an unlimited join timer for the home nation. This would provide content for people that like coastal patrol but also give the solo pvper the chance to hit a trader or player fast and escape. 

 

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People need to be encourage to sail further away from their home ports, then us solo sailors can pounce on a lone trader or find another frigate cruising the waters. Too often, the majority of the population stays close to the home port, people know that so they sit outside the area waiting to jump on 5v1. Me, I set up some outpost further away, find some open towns and sail out of them, engage some AI, maybe chase a trader or run from a larger ship, but at least I know if I do get into a fight, it isn't as likely being 5v1. 

 

I do believe ganking, in any form, should be penalized, you have more than 25% of the BR, you don't get reals, exp or the ship, only cargo. 

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34 minutes ago, admin said:

Solo player experience was made drastically easier since release. Multiple systems were introduced allowing players to recover in battles, limited chain, invisibility after battles, laser stern guns, damage system was tuned to give skilled players options to win 3v1. I have no idea where is the statement comes from.

Practice and you will win outnumbered. Solo experience exist. But remember. Nelson would not win trafalgar solo. Same here. Its fine. 

Ok so you can win outnumbered, but what happens after the battle (and up to 1-1/2 hr real time)?  Invisibility after battle gives insufficient time to escape and log off, so you get dragged into battle again and again.

Nelson did not drop out of Trafalgar battle instance only to find another fleet waiting for him either. If we have to drop out of battle instance in the exact same position, invisibility should be longer. Maybe removal of F11 cords will help too. 

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50 minutes ago, admin said:

Solo player experience was made drastically easier since release. Multiple systems were introduced allowing players to recover in battles, limited chain, invisibility after battles, laser stern guns, damage system was tuned to give skilled players options to win 3v1. I have no idea where is the statement comes from.

You took away PvP marks...

Thats why I haven't hunted in OW since September. No way to sustain myself financially like before. People tagging AI trade brigs are richer than me. 

Edited by Capn Rocko
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For my opinion it is the main problem of many players that they care to much about the ship, take a scrap ship or a captured AI Ship and lets go. If you loose it, the teleport to your nearest outpost is for free. Finally you lost nothing and learned something in the best case. This is what I have done many times. Have fun and dont have to much headache about your shiny ship and upgrades. ☺

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7 hours ago, admin said:

Solo player experience was made drastically easier since release. Multiple systems were introduced allowing players to recover in battles, limited chain, invisibility after battles, laser stern guns, damage system was tuned to give skilled players options to win 3v1. I have no idea where is the statement comes from.

Practice and you will win outnumbered. Solo experience exist. But remember. Nelson would not win trafalgar solo. Same here. Its fine. 

I can't explain exactly how or why admin, but that simply isn't the case. A year and a half ago, I was a solo pirate and one of the most feared sailors in the Atlantic/eastern seaboard. I flourished, I had ships out the wazoo, stolen cargo, money.... you name it, I had it. Now, all it seems to be is 5 vs 1... all the time, every time. I will gladly take on up to three people, and win over half the time whether it's through outright destruction, or some destruction and some evasion. All it is now though is one guy vs half of an entire Navy it seems. Everything you just listed does nothing for a solo player, it does something for ALL players. I'm not asking for a crutch just because I want to sail solo. All I am asking for is that some of the old balance come back, where it was actually possible to be a solo player without dedicating your entire life to the game. I logged over 1500 hours my first year in game... then, whatever it was that changed to make solo sailing so impossible happened. I have put in maybe 100 hours in the last year and a half, MAYBE. I hate presenting a problem without an idea for a solution, but to be 100% honest with you I'm not entirely sure what is causing the problem.

What you said sounds great and all.... but if you really don't know where my statement came from, you don't play your own game. No offense.

Edited by Werewolf

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I sail solo almost exclusively.  I plot my routes carefully to avoid conflict.  I sail long distances.  I avoid high enemy traffic.  Sometimes I've gone many months without losing a ship.  I was ganked many times years ago.  Recently I have been sunk many times, always by a solo player.

There have been many changes that have improved the game.  Most of the changes that I see demanded recently would degrade the gameplay.

There is diversity on the map now.  Players can change their risk and opportunity by moving to a different location.  Changing the type of ship you sail can have a huge effect on what you can do.  For every problem there is a solution.

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5 minutes ago, Macjimm said:

I sail solo almost exclusively.  I plot my routes carefully to avoid conflict.  I sail long distances.  I avoid high enemy traffic.  Sometimes I've gone many months without losing a ship.  I was ganked many times years ago.  Recently I have been sunk many times, always by a solo player.

There have been many changes that have improved the game.  Most of the changes that I see demanded recently would degrade the gameplay.

There is diversity on the map now.  Players can change their risk and opportunity by moving to a different location.  Changing the type of ship you sail can have a huge effect on what you can do.  For every problem there is a solution.

I do a lot of that already Macjimm, but if you say you're successful as a solo sailor, then perhaps I need to alter my gameplay. You wrote a few things that I do not do, so I will work on trying those things and changing up the way I play. I've done the same things for a long time now because it used to be a proven formula, and through the patches I have changed some stuff, but apparently not drastically enough. I will take your advice and run with it.

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I have huge respect for players who are honest and integral.  You sound like you deserve respect.

Oh, sail smaller faster ships if you want to go solo.

Sailing solo is thrilling.  I'm glad ganking is possible, otherwise I would travel most places with magic game mechanic immunity.  It's the risk that creates excitement.

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3 hours ago, Werewolf said:

[Admin] you don't play your own game

It’s not that, a Dev knows everything, therefore it must be very hard to play as a newbie or without knowledge, even to know where a struggling player is coming from.

For them, what seems the simplest/easiest act in-game, is impossible for others.

These are the insights that we have to try to articulate.

Edited by BuckleUpBones
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A good guide Iroquois ... it was easier to sail solo before the chain shot became limited... if one type of shot is to be limited I feel that it should be that all shot should be limited and the numbers managed by the captain of the ship... like repairs. No more throwing away broadsides... every broadside must then count. In my opinion makes for a better game.

All being said I do enjoy the game as it stands, just need to play carefully and have an objective in mind every time I enter the open world. Never forget the escape plans.

Good luck and watch your six.

Edited by LIONOFWALES

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I sail solo 90% of the time and it can be very frustrating and their are times when I have bad or very bad weeks or days the other week I lost 3 maybe 4 ships in 1 week and it made me very angry so I crafted some less expensive ships and went back to basics as I call it and Ive had a couple of ok weeks since then. I'm not saying it's easy to profit from solo pvp exclusively so I would recommend mixing your gameplay so you only solo pvp 2 days and other 2 days do some boring but essential pve for reals doubloons etc. I always try to evaluate my losses and say hey I sunk X amount of ships before I lost her so it's ok. Or at least i learnt dont do xyz again...

To make a mistake is normal to repeat those mistakes makes you food...

 

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14 minutes ago, Spitfire83 said:

I sail solo 90% of the time and it can be very frustrating and their are times when I have bad or very bad weeks or days the other week I lost 3 maybe 4 ships in 1 week and it made me very angry so I crafted some less expensive ships and went back to basics as I call it and Ive had a couple of ok weeks since then. I'm not saying it's easy to profit from solo pvp exclusively so I would recommend mixing your gameplay so you only solo pvp 2 days and other 2 days do some boring but essential pve for reals doubloons etc. I always try to evaluate my losses and say hey I sunk X amount of ships before I lost her so it's ok. Or at least i learnt dont do xyz again...

To make a mistake is normal to repeat those mistakes makes you food...

 

My mistake is I never loot dead ships after sinking. It's a habit I have. Cap, check build, loot reps escape. I forget they drop money after sinking. 4000 hours of old ui and systems that I am having trouble adopting. So far I have managed to only loot one player ever and that was captain reverse after he told me not to forget to loot him in a "duel" (my ship was duel design) . I hate not getting the rewards automatically... 

Btw ask in Gb if anyone wants to trade me trincs(teak wo) for a live oak port battle victory. I need frigates and have 4 first rates I don't need. 3 of them are nostalgia ships because they survived all the port battles we had in Gb. I have no idea about value. 2 trincs said for 1 vic or more? 

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