Game is too hard to press play again.

[Iroquois Confederacy]

If money were easily printed, it would undercut the whole reason for Navies:  Commerce.  The simple truth is that not all are cut out for the vagaries of a life at sea.

[Hullabaloo]

13 hours ago, Pirate78 said:

Spent 2 hours sailing around doing missions and killing npcs. Made 10k (30% from that were spent on repairs and patches). This is not mmo this is a grind fest. Don't expect pvp from new guys or their return to the game. As example, Friend lost a ship, has no money to go back. Said Goodbye. Same here, takes forever to get moving. Sailing and finding npcs is crazy. Reward is too small. This money nefr ran this game to the ground. I refuse to play this game, when you get ganked outside Capitals and end up with no ways to make money and go out. 

Increase money for kills might work, but 3 guys I invited all quit and I am leaving too. 

Farewell. 

I sympathise a bit with what this guy is saying. Experienced players know that in fact it's probably a bit too easy to make money if anything (and ridiculously easy if you have an alt or 2!). But if you have just started and you do not have someone to tell you (like a clan) it would actually be quite reasonable to think that you make money from the real reward you get for sinking ships and that would be a pretty awful grind. It might sound odd but I wonder if it might not be better to remove the Real reward completely (it's a pittance anyway) and just have the xp rewards and perhaps increase the loot drops to compensate. This might prevent this misunderstanding and draw new players into the need to trade/buy and sell and use the economy?

[van der Clam]

Why aren't people from their nations helping out new players? We Dutch are always quite accommodating to new and returning mates. If you are in a nation that has the amazing veterans and they are not helping you, then you know not to hold them in high regard....just switch nations or ask for help from kinder people in other nations. I will say tho, that getting screwed and used by jackass alts is a major problem and can negatively affect how new players are treated.

[van der Clam]

41 minutes ago, Graf Bernadotte said:

Do the tutorial and you will get at good gift to start.

A new player will never be able to complete the final mission unless they are told how it is best done.

[Hullabaloo]

I've never been in a clan where a new player isn't just simply given ships if they need them but its actually pretty hard work to have a clan with lots of new players. The resources are easy enough but it's the sheer volume of questions, all of them asked multiple times. If you try to run a clan with many new players then hats off to you, but you wont have time to play the game very much yourself and it gets tough explaining the same things over and over and of course you can spend a lot of time mentoring a player only for them to suddenly stop playing anyway. KOTO had a discord channel specifically for new players with up to date links to learning resources and that helped a lot so you could just refer players to that and encourage them to find out the information for themselves.

[Cetric de Cornusiac]

30 friends and all quit? Bring them to us on PvE Peace Server, have all the time to learn the basics and our NPCs aren't weaker than those on PvP War Server, so you still get your challenges. I think doubloons are too easy to get as loot, so you even may not have to use other means like missions or patrol for earning them. Like a single gros ventre having 1000 dbl - sounds fairly easy, doesn't it?

Players on PvE server are extremely helpful, no matter what (clan and moreover what) nation. Just ask in global chat. Bring as many of your pals with you. And this new attempt on PvE does not cost you anything, one character on each server is possible with same steam account. Later, if you see fit, you can anytime venture out on PvP War Server again.

[Audacious]

1 hour ago, Cetric de Cornusiac said:

30 friends and all quit? Bring them to us on PvE Peace Server, have all the time to learn the basics and our NPCs aren't weaker than those on PvP War Server, so you still get your challenges. I think doubloons are too easy to get as loot, so you even may not have to use other means like missions or patrol for earning them. Like a single gros ventre having 1000 dbl - sounds fairly easy, doesn't it?

Players on PvE server are extremely helpful, no matter what (clan and moreover what) nation. Just ask in global chat. Bring as many of your pals with you. And this new attempt on PvE does not cost you anything, one character on each server is possible with same steam account. Later, if you see fit, you can anytime venture out on PvP War Server again.

They do not have time to sail for hour, find npc. Spend another 20 killing it. Get 1k, Sail back for 20. Go back to port repair for 500 and call it a day. What is this? A joke. They get 10 fun pvp battles in other games in 1.5 hours and spend cash on fun things. You ask me why? I do not know... This game just does not work for all 60 guys I knew and sailed with back in the days. 

Edited January 8, 2019 by Pirate78

[Sea Archer]

When I started in 2016, there where many experienced players waiting to sink or cap everyone who was not of their nation. But even as a new player it was fun. 

I guess one reason is that at that time the small ships had a few dura, so loosing the battle was not that bad. Additionally there were plenty of unarmed trader lynx and cutters to be taken even by new players.

To help new players there should be much more of these unarmed small trader vessels, with a cargo that is not of a value that experienced players waste their time, but high enough make it interesting for the new ones.

I think it would be helpful for new players to have ships with more than one dura (maybe up to 3rd rank), to encourage them to test their fighting abilities. 

[Hethwill]

7 hours ago, Pirate78 said:

10 fun pvp battles in other games in 1.5 hours

Those are arena based games with 15 minutes maximum battle duration.

That's absolutely not what NA OW is.

Be prepared, always, for battles to last 90 minutes. If they last less, it's okay.

Also, question yourself and your friends...

- why the War option ? You know from the start that contact with enemy vessels is imminent. Meaning it may happen at any time, when you want and when you don't wish.

Also, is not really a solo game. It can be played solo, but as a multiplayer game the balance and mechanics, both economics and military, are aimed at coop and group play and eventually full fledged multiplayer wars.

[jodgi]

7 hours ago, Pirate78 said:

They do not have time to sail for hour, find npc. Spend another 20 killing it. Get 1k, Sail back for 20. Go back to port repair for 500 and call it a day. What is this? A joke. They get 10 fun pvp battles in other games in 1.5 hours and spend cash on fun things. You ask me why? I do not know... This game just does not work for all 60 guys I knew and sailed with back in the days. 

I'm entirely with you on this, I understand and agree completely.

You can see from the responses in this topic the love for the eco system is deep set among players who are still here.

There is a proverb with unclear origin that dates back to the 17th century that you might have noticed in The Shining: "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy".

Some writer added a second part to it in the 19th century:

Quote

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy, 
All play and no work makes Jack a mere toy.

It serves to highlight the tension we experience in the NA community. I'm firmly on the "dull boy" side but many state that without eco (grind, grind, grind) it's all pointless and unappealing. I don't understand why they bring yin-yang philosophy into their gaming experience, but that they do. I'm fine with "all play and no work" because that's what I want when firing up a game. 

7 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Also, is not really a solo game. It can be played solo, but as a multiplayer game the balance and mechanics, both economics and military, are aimed at coop and group play and eventually full fledged multiplayer wars.

What if the unfriendly solo experience and eco work are the biggest threats to player recruitment and retention in order to achieve "full fledged multiplayer wars"?

[Hethwill]

Just now, jodgi said:

What if the unfriendly solo experience and eco work are the biggest threats to player recruitment and retention in order to achieve "full fledged multiplayer wars"?

Solo experience will always be hardest. In any multiplayer game, and NA is no exception.

Economy is a balancer i guess, so the game doesn't turn into a Ship-of-the-line Action... But i am sure the design team knows best.

 

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

dlc ships are the "all play no work" for the game

also "work" is a question of pov, i don't judge buying stuff somewhere and selling it elsewhere with profit "work", last saturday i was lazy and made the mistake sailing too close to guaya in a gros ventre and got caught by an Hercules, i tried to fight and defend my cargo and sunk, that was not that bad and is part of the game for me, i know some would have ragequit.  

I apply the rule: sail what you can afford to loose, if you just grind from the start to get a perfect fitted trinco or lineship with top upgrade and sail on OW with it for the first time expecting to rule the OW, you got it wrong, you didn't get experience, neither fun, and will have to start from zero as you had loose everything at your first defeat, making it super frustrating => ragequit  

Edited January 8, 2019 by Baptiste Gallouédec

[jodgi]

3 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Solo experience will always be hardest. In any multiplayer game, and NA is no exception.

True, but I haven't played anything but multiplayer games for many years and the NA solo experience is the harshest I've seen.

6 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Economy is a balancer i guess

It looks like it balances the potential over-proliferation of line-ships, but it amplifies and polarizes power levels between individual players and groups. I question that design.

9 minutes ago, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

also "work" is a question of pov, i don't judge buying stuff somewhere and selling it elsewhere with profit "work"

If you derive "fun" from that are you among the lucky few or do you represent a majority?

[Hethwill]

4 minutes ago, jodgi said:

It looks like it balances the potential over-proliferation of line-ships, but it amplifies and polarizes power levels between individual players and groups. I question that design.

Yes. I remember suggesting that ALL ships that can be crafted by normal means to be available through the Admiralty in exchange for currency/honors.

Say special ships are only in special events / chests, etc. A multiplayer group of individuals will get more chances than a individual. So the individual might get one special ship and the clan that hunts him will get twenty fold more.

 

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

13 minutes ago, jodgi said:

If you derive "fun" from that are you among the lucky few or do you represent a majority?

It was fun as i've crossed another player, the same run in an empty world would not have been the same ofc, but you never know and the profit helped me in buying quite a good amount of doubloons the same day. And that was quite easy to do and not "painfull", just a little bit time consuming as i played normally the rest of the day after that. Setting cap and sail from A to B is not real work, i know some arena game where try-hard grind exist for real (i play quite a lot at warthunder where pvp grind can become painfull when objectives for seasonal events are too high and remove the fun every single battle is supposed to give) I do both but i don't expect the same from those games and i would not have been interested in NA-legend, i play NA more like roleplay.

But for players just looking to connect everyday and jump into battle, just open outposts in a freetown near patrol zone and buy a dlc ship: there you are !

[Hullabaloo]

You have to 'work' to get 'stuff'. That's what gives 'value' to the ships you sail so you care a little bit if you lose (a nice) one. You need a bit of grind and effort otherwise nothing has value and it all becomes pointless. It sounds like this guy and his 30 mates didn't work together and pool their resources: 'you get the iron, you get the coal, you build the workshop etc (You CAN play solo if you really want to but expect a lot more 'work') and they didn't interact with the economy and sell for a profit the stuff they made and so they found the game really hard and they failed. You play the game well and make good decisions the game seems easy. You make the wrong decisions and play badly the game seems impossibly hard. That to me sounds like GREAT game design!

For me the question here is: why didn't Pirate78 and his friends understand what they needed to do to succeed?

One of the problems is because it's an alpha game and things are constantly changing and so any 3rd party guides and info out there are always out of date and few people bother to create them for the same reason and they were not in a clan either so they didn't get the help/guidance they needed. I'm hopeful that once we get to release the community will start creating these things so people will be able to find out what they need to do to succeed. 

1 hour ago, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

But for players just looking to connect everyday and jump into battle, just open outposts in a freetown near patrol zone and buy a dlc ship: there you are !

Exactly that. If you don't have time for the full experience then that's your option (it's just a shame devs made them OP for the $, but that's another story).

[Angus MacDuff]

2 minutes ago, Hullabaloo 'The Thief' said:

For me the question here is: why didn't Pirate78 and his friends understand what they needed to do to succeed?

Guidance seems to be the biggest lack in this game, from what I've seen.  New players are constantly asking the most basic of questions and its just their luck if they get an answer or get ignored.  I understand that Devs cant go ahead and publish a "rule" book, but the "Welcome to the Caribbean" tutorial can't come soon enough.  Even returning players are getting frustrated.

[Licinio Chiavari]

21 hours ago, BuckleUpBones said:

Add to that…

+1 -1 rank battle limit, including group formation, this is the way to keep ganking in check, at commodore or rear admiral everyone fights each other but every other new player gets a chance.

Sure it will lower PvP content sort term but in long term, the playerbase will grow and along with it PvP content.

And real P2W players, those with a bulk of alts, will gladly thank you.

Not to speak about even single account traders that often are not top rank.

[Licinio Chiavari]

20 hours ago, van der Decken said:

A new player will never be able to complete the final mission unless they are told how it is best done.

There are a couple viable tactics.

Still I agree: no noob will ever pass it.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Licinio Chiavari said:

And real P2W players, those with a bulk of alts, will gladly thank you.

Not to speak about even single account traders that often are not top rank.

Surely the value of new players outweighs the (nuisance) value of alts.

Playerbase growth feeds the realm and men (most important).

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Also, is not really a solo game. It can be played solo, but as a multiplayer game the balance and mechanics, both economics and military, are aimed at coop and group play and eventually full fledged multiplayer wars.

Do clans jump right into a game, like 30 new players at once and start playing right of the bat or…

Do clans build from a existing playerbase…

That is, a playerbase of solo’s, casuals and friends.

I think you guys need to go back and rethink your master plan, especially for player growth!

[Hethwill]

Just now, BuckleUpBones said:

Do clans jump right into a game, like 30 new players at once and start playing right of the bat or…

Do clans build from a existing playerbase…

That is, a playerbase of solo’s, casuals and friends.

I think you guys need to go back and rethink your master plan, especially for player growth!

I don't have to do anything man, i'm just a player, same as you. Open you eyes please.

 

[Farrago]

On 1/7/2019 at 9:53 AM, BuckleUpBones said:

Add to that…

+1 -1 rank battle limit, including group formation, this is the way to keep ganking in check, at commodore or rear admiral everyone fights each other but every other new player gets a chance.

Sure it will lower PvP content sort term but in long term, the playerbase will grow and along with it PvP content.

The trouble with this:

I’m sure I’m not alone in that I learned this game and earned my rank by sailing with experienced captains. Just sailing around doing low level missions by yourself or even with a bunch of other newbs is a painful endeavor.

 

[Tiedemann]

On 1/7/2019 at 7:47 PM, Hullabaloo 'The Thief' said:

I sympathise a bit with what this guy is saying. Experienced players know that in fact it's probably a bit too easy to make money if anything (and ridiculously easy if you have an alt or 2!). But if you have just started and you do not have someone to tell you (like a clan) it would actually be quite reasonable to think that you make money from the real reward you get for sinking ships and that would be a pretty awful grind. It might sound odd but I wonder if it might not be better to remove the Real reward completely (it's a pittance anyway) and just have the xp rewards and perhaps increase the loot drops to compensate. This might prevent this misunderstanding and draw new players into the need to trade/buy and sell and use the economy?

Remove the cost for crew, repairs and rum and I'm willing to spit in my hand! 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Farrago said:

I’m sure I’m not alone in that I learned this game and earned my rank by sailing with experienced captains. Just sailing around doing low level missions by yourself or even with a bunch of other newbs is a painful endeavor.

 

Most learn from trial and error, some from wise-old clan mentors or YouTube even.

But no one learns anything once they have quit.

The trick is to keep whomever in the game for as long as possible.