jodgi Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 (edited) A small guide to stay safe(ish) while fighting bots These topics pop up on occasion: I'm green text in-game (chat mod) so I sometimes get contacted by frustrated players: Some sandbox pundits think people need a bunch of shiny PvE content to engage in the game and distract them enough to not minding playing the victim over and over: Quote Looking at an often used example, EVE PvE has a lot to offer. And the same could (and should) be done for NA. I could say active fishing/whaling game, EXPLORATION, more in depth trading etc. This is a basement of any game, even for PvPers: giving them... Preys. I think this is truly idiotic but the dudes honestly believe this. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ People either like or feel forced to hump bots. “Pros” like to jump people doing it or ambush them as they come out. I have no sympathy for people who engage in such weak-ass PvP. This guide will help you reduce your exposure to such inane sandbox heroes. If you go out into OW you will be at risk, this is fine, the slower the ship the more exposed you are. If you’re one of those who likes to be left alone with your L’Ocean I can only help a tiny bit. Before you go out into OW synchronise Felix’ map with OW, it may help you orientate when coming out of an instance. Always note your heading when going into a fight, you’ll have the same heading when you get out. If possible make it easy for yourself to run to safety when you get out, after you’re done with the bots you have about 15 minutes to plan where to zoom with accelerated invisibility when you click out into OW. The admiralty Kill missions are private and people can’t jump you when you enter those (?), before clicking in point your ship towards where you believe you’ll have the most safety (reinforcement zone, ports, forts…). When you tag a bot in the reinforcement zone (R zone) you won’t be able to call in bots to help you and the forts won’t shoot at your enemy [correction: @Banished Privateer confirms that forts will shoot at enemy players] but your countrymen will have 30 minutes to come join and help you. If you’re jumped in the R-zone make sure to bring up the nation chat and tell everyone where the fight is, remember you can bring up chat inside the instance. If it’s the typical gank group try to waste as much of their time as possible, both to allow help to arrive but also to bore them as much as possible. They’re griefing you so feel free to return the favour: Fire ship, run, surrender or whatever you think will annoy them the most. Do not rage in chat because they feed on that. How to tag an OW bot or fleet. You should always scan the horizon, but be extra vigilant right before and if possible while the tag timer counts down. The two minute timer is long enough for ships beyond visual range to join before your fight closes, this only applies to windward ships so keep the keenest eye upwind. Make it a habit to tag with optimal wind position as that gives you a favourable fighting position or the option to extend and escape should you get jumped. Let the timer run for two minutes while you “escape” before engaging. The instance jumpers will inherit the relative bot position when they join and will have a hard time catching up with you. A gank group may have a smaller upwind sailer and with the weather gauge you’ll be able to seriously put out hurt on the small ships separated from their cavalry. If you’re chased by gankers in OW you can proactively tag bots with favourable wind and draw out the chase or get lucky and escape with accelerated invisibility. Don’t grow up to become a ganker or instance jumper yourself. That stuff is for the weak minds. You need real fights and shit like that won’t sustain you but rather rot your brain. ____ Made a youtube pretty out of this to make life harder for you shitheads... Bite me! Edited January 11, 2019 by jodgi addendum and spelling and video 25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percival Merewether Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Very good guide, Although always keep this in mind.. if you encourage this: 31 minutes ago, jodgi said: If you’re chased by gankers in OW you can proactively tag bots with favourable wind and draw out the chase or get lucky and escape with accelerated invisibility. You lose your right to complain about this: 31 minutes ago, jodgi said: People either like or feel forced to hump bots. “Pros” like to jump people doing it or ambush them as they come out. I have no sympathy for people who engage in such weak-ass PvP. 31 minutes ago, jodgi said: Don’t grow up to become a ganker or instance jumper yourself. That stuff is for the weak minds. You need real fights and shit like that won’t sustain you but rather rot your brain. Many PvP'ers if asked politely during battle will often help you get the ship back or simply accept a 1v1 duel with no kill. The gain from PvP these days are minimal (better to hunt AI traders), so I would recommend a good tone in battle since most people tag because they think PvP is more fun - not because they stand to win something. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 (edited) Think this explains quite well how the tagging circle works Edited January 4, 2019 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted January 4, 2019 Author Share Posted January 4, 2019 13 minutes ago, Percival Merewether said: Many PvP'ers if asked politely during battle will often help you get the ship back or simply accept a 1v1 duel with no kill. True, I would say "some" or "few", though. Just because you're one of the good guys does not make it the norm. 15 minutes ago, Percival Merewether said: You lose your right to complain about this: I'll never not complain about ganking ;). "Playing it smart" is such a hindrance to fun; It's other people's fun, not mine. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salty Sails Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Don’t forget, learn to read the combat news! 😂 If players would learn to read the combat news, they would know, where it is dangerous. But most players sailing brainless/afk with their consti classic or Christian. So it’s not my fault when they are crying in forums or nation chat, when they lose their best ships. BTW. I don’t care about if the enemies it’s a new player or an old player. Since you can’t see the rank and name. Sink them all, or try it at least. Playerbase is down, so you will be happy about every enemy or fight in ow where u can join. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percival Merewether Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 18 minutes ago, jodgi said: I'll never not complain about ganking ;). "Playing it smart" is such a hindrance to fun; It's other people's fun, not mine. Sorry. I think one of the major problems in the game today is that every involuntary fight is considered a gank - even a Surprise vs Victory. Unfair tactics such as waiting on top of a battle is certainly a hindrance to fun, but so is tagging an AI fleet to escape, sitting under the forts or calling for a revenge fleet. In the end the game allows it, so I'd always direct my critism at the game rather than the individuals playing it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim McSauce Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Just now, Percival Merewether said: I think one of the major problems in the game today is that every involuntary fight is considered a gank - even a Surprise vs Victory. Unfair tactics such as waiting on top of a battle is certainly a hindrance to fun, but so is tagging an AI fleet to escape, sitting under the forts or calling for a revenge fleet. In the end the game allows it, so I'd always direct my critism at the game rather than the individuals playing it. sitting under forts is the only fair one of these, since that's a part of the game world, while tagging and revenge fleeting is mostly abusing the magic that is OW. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havelock Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Probably the best guide ever made. I thougt jodgis fishing guide was the ultimate tutorial, but jodgis safety guide arises as a new standard of guide quality. Unique features: posted in the right subforum has tags written by jodgi, best author ever dank ASCII meme obligatory GIF meme great formatting very helpful visualization from the maker of "jodgis fishing guide" uncovers superior tactics used only by the best players such as "use wind", "use eyes" or "use memes" it just works Cant wait for jodgis next masterpiece. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z4ys Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, Havelock said: ... I suggested he should make a movie of this guide^^ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted January 4, 2019 Author Share Posted January 4, 2019 10 minutes ago, Percival Merewether said: I think one of the major problems in the game today is that every involuntary fight is considered a gank - even a Surprise vs Victory. Unfair tactics such as waiting on top of a battle is certainly a hindrance to fun, but so is tagging an AI fleet to escape, sitting under the forts or calling for a revenge fleet. In the end the game allows it, so I'd always direct my critism at the game rather than the individuals playing it. We have this unavoidable break between OW and instance so it's all but impossible to make it "perfect". It's just my guilty pleasure to pretend shaming gankers will do any good at all. I don't disagree with you, I simply wanted Legends. 9 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said: Forts will shoot at players. Thanks! Will fix. Didn't know as I've never tagged a bot inside R zone close to the forts and then been jumped. 3 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said: 🙄😏🤐 did tiny correction 😏 Dude, you know I'm the greatest PvE player on the War server! @Havelock, Stahp! You're making me blush. @z4ys Don't pressure me! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havelock Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, jodgi said: Stahp! You're making me blush. Have my babies! jodgis baby making guide when? Edited January 4, 2019 by Havelock 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted January 4, 2019 Author Share Posted January 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Banished Privateer said: I don't wanna ruin jodgis efforts to make prey safe, but he missed 3 the most important things to keep you safe. 1. Attack stuff underneath forts, don't sail away from them 2. Put circles on land for enemy side (denies option to join for attackers) 3. Be a good PvP player. To be honest, for the past year or so, I literally ignore 90% of tips of safety PvE rules and even sail up to Gustavia waters on SOLs to do my "Kill missions" solo. Whenever someone tries to gank me in PvE, I simply fend off or even kill them if they don't manage to run away. Good stuff! Remember my imaginary and absent target audience would be guys that struggle and not you. (That cues us into @z4ys nagging me to put it on YT, apparently the plebs live there) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Njord Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 I think it would be great if the devs linked new player guides like this on the steam page at least. Most players that need it might not even use the forum at all. Good job, jodgi! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norfolk nChance Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 (edited) Yoda @jodgi Master Jedi, I do believe we’ve had this conversation before regarding The Jodgi Chronicles... Tis about time and long overdue Master Jedi maybe @admin should help? https://steamcommunity.com/app/311310/discussions/1/1744482417422487816/ https://steamcommunity.com/app/311310/discussions/11/1744482417422489771/ These will only link to the main General Discussions page and Guides page on the right of the screen. However, YOU need to do a Guide on the TOP ROW guides page and link it into FORUM etc... https://steamcommunity.com/app/311310/guides/?browsesort=mostrecent&browsefilter=mostrecent&requiredtags%5B0%5D=English&p=1 Great Guide and good follow up POST feedback as well. I would like to see more... Norfolk nStormtrooper Edited January 4, 2019 by Norfolk nChance 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suricato Rojo Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Ideal tag for missions and pvp... 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Licinio Chiavari Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 On 1/4/2019 at 1:35 PM, Banished Privateer said: 3. Be a good PvP player. To be honest, for the past year or so, I literally ignore 90% of tips of safety PvE rules and even sail up to Gustavia waters on SOLs to do my "Kill missions" solo. Whenever someone tries to gank me in PvE, I simply fend off or even kill them if they don't manage to run away. Conclusion? To be a successful PvE player, you must be a good PvP player 🤣 Best suggestion. As I recently said, not all could get time and skill (and the gear too) to be among the best, but everybody can get the experience to be still good (or very good) in PvP. Best way to learn is the hard way: being sunk. Also being ganked: you'll see how gankers gank, or how they manouver. And quoting @z4ys best way to help the hunter is... Fleeing: giving him best position (usually behind slight upwind) to let him do his stuff. On 1/4/2019 at 11:32 AM, jodgi said: I think this is truly idiotic but the dudes honestly believe this. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I appreciated quoting me without the name, very polite. But I have no problem to stand by my ideas. StillI would like to have better explain my idioticy. Sidenote: do you really think that PvE content should be mindlessly kill bots (more, less, different - still in the end this is NA pve) or AFK fishing? Wouldnt be better an active fishing? Meaningful exploration? On 1/4/2019 at 11:32 AM, jodgi said: Don’t grow up to become a ganker or instance jumper yourself. That stuff is for the weak minds. You need real fights and shit like that won’t sustain you but rather rot your brain. A - define 'real fights'. Because (again) I got accused of ganking by a Wasa (top rank) attacked alone on my Requin. Moreover: what will a 100hrs player learn from fighting people like Ram Dinark 1v1 Renomee v Renomee? Aside he stands no chances at all in PvP. B - ganking, or better, hunting is the best way to learn how to not being hunted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted January 5, 2019 Author Share Posted January 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Licinio Chiavari said: I appreciated quoting me without the name, very polite. But I have no problem to stand by my ideas. StillI would like to have better explain my idioticy. Sidenote: do you really think that PvE content should be mindlessly kill bots (more, less, different - still in the end this is NA pve) or AFK fishing? Wouldnt be better an active fishing? Meaningful exploration? Ok... Serious face. I didn't quote you by name because you represent a school of thought, you're not alone and it would be overly pointed to lay it on you. When I do these write-ups I purposely write with a fork, I lay it on thick to get the amplified point across and also to make it entertaining. William Blake wrote a book in the 1790's titled "The Marriage of Heaven and Hell". In this book he writes the "Proverbs of Hell" and the most famous of those is "The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom". You might say I wallow in a low-brow version of that proverb when I agitate on the forums. Blake explains: Quote Without Contraries is no progression. Attraction and Repulsion, Reason and Energy, Love and Hate are necessary to Human existence. I might add for shits and giggles to spice things up. Also, Jim Morrison was fascinated by "The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom". Trivia. I don't care about pve at all. I have no interest in it and view it as a (time effective) neccessary evil to grind slots. I don't believe in attracting victims to PvP by luring them in with fantastic PvE content. If that would ever work, I'm always open to the idea I might be wrong, I would be truly flabbergasted. You mention EvE as a shining example... Have you looked up EvE's pvp/pve ratio? It's absolutely atrocious, it's not fit to be a model for a game centered around fighting ships. Don't ask me about PvE. I don't care. There's your chance to run with PvE ideas because I can be waved aside with "He's admitted he doesn't care, so don't listen to him". hello kitty PvE! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macjimm Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, jodgi said: ... stuff ... hello kitty PvE! Excellent comunication jodgi. Written expression like this helps to understand other players. There is so much diversity within the playerbase. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted January 5, 2019 Author Share Posted January 5, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Licinio Chiavari said: Because (again) I got accused of ganking by a Wasa (top rank) attacked alone on my Requin. That's just stupid. We can safely and completely disregard stupid. 1 hour ago, Licinio Chiavari said: A - define 'real fights'. A bit hard to do, especially in the very weird player psychology environment that is OW (sandbox). Consensual fights that are not overly lopsided could be a starting point. PB's are kinda like that by design, so they have that going for them. The duel patrol zone is being designed for "real fights". 1 hour ago, Licinio Chiavari said: what will a 100hrs player learn from fighting people like Ram Dinark 1v1 Renomee v Renomee? Aside he stands no chances at all in PvP. In Flanker, Air Warrior, Aces High, WoT and NA Sea Trials, Legends and OW duel room (+ a precious few lucky equal sides fights in OW or PZ) I played with and against top players. I have been beaten so hard so many times, I've learned a ton... I think... hope. I love NA dearly, It's a gem. If I didn't I wouldn't be here throwing sand in your eyes. _____________________ edit: This amuses me enormously. Edited January 5, 2019 by jodgi rating 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Licinio Chiavari Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 10 hours ago, jodgi said: That's just stupid. We can safely and completely disregard stupid. Good starting point. 10 hours ago, jodgi said: A bit hard to do, especially in the very weird player psychology environment that is OW (sandbox). Consensual fights that are not overly lopsided could be a starting point. PB's are kinda like that by design, so they have that going for them. The duel patrol zone is being designed for "real fights". No fight would ever fair. Never. Not last due to players sheer experience. A skilled captain but not with a lot of combats (experience) could get tricked by a less skilled but more seasoned one. Moreover... NA is (also and mainly I'd dare to say) a Wargame. Or in general simulate Warfare. And there's nothing fair in war on wargame. On the contrary, Admirals and Generals down to Captains and the last soldier and seaman tries and tried any possible dirty trick to have an edge over adversary. It's the nature of war: in the end people dont fight for a nice fight. People fights to "win". 10 hours ago, jodgi said: In Flanker, Air Warrior, Aces High, WoT and NA Sea Trials, Legends and OW duel room (+ a precious few lucky equal sides fights in OW or PZ) I played with and against top players. I have been beaten so hard so many times, I've learned a ton... I think... hope. Yes. And nay. To be able to learn you need basics. The more skilled and experienced your adversary, the more you need experience yourself to be able to recognize techniques, patterns, ability, gear etc... used. So I'd repeat: a fresh captain with tutorial done, after some weeks of trading and bot killing, and a couple of fast Coast Defense zergs, facing a duel vs. one of the most skilled captains around will die. Fast and bad. Learning almost nothing, being unable to even understand what's happened. Even thinking about cheats... or irrealism (like a Snow killing a 3rd rate). It's like Instruction: first Primary School, then Secondary, then College then University. You dont move, even if you're brilliant ("skilled") from the first to the last: you'll miss the means to learn. 11 hours ago, jodgi said: I love NA dearly, It's a gem. If I didn't I wouldn't be here throwing sand in your eyes. I love it too. It's a gem and could be shining gem. Still NA needs to decide what to be. I think it should be a sandbox MMO like EVE, with plenty activities outside PvP in particular and even combat in general to have a society growing in it (like in EVE indeed). With all pros and cons. I played a lot of pure war simulations (I started when I was 9); if I want one I can look to highly technical ones (like WarInRussia latest iterations) or to my 150+ AH, GDW, InternationalTeam boardgames. Sincerely here I'm looking for also an enviroment. And a refined and expanded NA could shine far more than EVE. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magallanes Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 On 1/4/2019 at 4:35 PM, Suricato Rojo said: Ideal tag for missions and pvp... This works for pvp players as well...Used by "PvP primadonnas" in waters full of enemy chasers. Enemy ship is a bot too. Time ago I remember the last reply from devs about this exploit after several complaints ... They want to fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted January 6, 2019 Author Share Posted January 6, 2019 5 hours ago, Licinio Chiavari said: No fight would ever fair. Never. Not last due to players sheer experience. This is natural and alright. Most people are ok with someone beating them with skill and experience. 5 hours ago, Licinio Chiavari said: a fresh captain with tutorial done, after some weeks of trading and bot killing, and a couple of fast Coast Defense zergs, facing a duel vs. one of the most skilled captains around will die. Fast and bad. Learning almost nothing I dunno. I asked to join RAKERS when I was still in Privateer back in Sea Trials. My first duel with Doran was in Privateers. I died fast and bad but I learned a ton. If people are truly open to learning the skill gap is a forte and not a problem. (Doran did put us all through manual sails and maneuvers training, not unlike tutorial, then it was duels, duels , duels often with debriefs after.) 5 hours ago, Licinio Chiavari said: It's the nature of war: in the end people dont fight for a nice fight. People fights to "win". I know, I just doubt it works as a game experience. I believe it's the combination of full loss loot and asymmetrical warfare that makes us struggle with keeping players. It's hardcore, cool, correct and logical but I believe too many players struggle with motivation to play when they have to grind cash and things (PvE) after losing stuff in a (frustrating) lopsided fight. I believe almost all players want nice fights, if you make it exceedingly hard for that too happen you have created a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeRoTR Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Thank you for the good small guide. But it may need some additions. For me, I am all confused by latest patches. Out of greenzone, join is possible latest 1:28:45 on the timer. So join timer is 1:15 minutes now. Greenzone battle open for allies for 30 minutes, while enemy must join in 2 minutes. So in greenzone enemies can join 1:28:00 Am I correct ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Countdown for battle start also counts as join timer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted January 11, 2019 Author Share Posted January 11, 2019 YT vid is up @z4ys Don't put it on repeat to inflate the analytics! I'm honestly curious if people in need actually search and find it. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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