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Trading update patch - coming soon.

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13 minutes ago, Sovereign said:

Don't punish new players too much

New players are punished enough because there is no proper tutorial in the game. And i mean tutorial about basic trading, crafting, wood characteristics, buildings etc., not the sailing one.

A new player starts in a capital port, has no clue what to do, and if he gets wrong answers by asking in NATION chat what he should do, he will ALWAYS stay in the reinforcement zone, hiding from everything, with the attitude " omg i could lose a ship, i am not going to leave reinforcement zone".

Where basically, everything is available in the Caribbean, you just need to grab your balls and leave the f...ng reinforcement area.

 

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4 hours ago, admin said:

 

  • Local goods become important part of the economy. Trading hubs will provide more trading or crafting resources if supplied by local goods.
    • For example - bringing livestock from the nearby ports to the trading hub will help the port to produce more white oak. 

The main difference with the old system are:

  • More immersion and realism in creation of the trade routes and triangular trades. You will be able to find a working trade route and exploit it for your advantage.
  • More influence on conquest. Hubs will matter more for taxes and control over resources.

Love this! Players can influence the markets finally! And in turn influence conquests.

4 hours ago, admin said:

Hubs will act as capitals. Shroud will have some national goods too. Basically cities like San Juan will be providing resources on par with the national capitals. Which means impossible nations can just take a city and make it their own capital. 

Could you implement NPC trade windows that will show last known location of said nation's trading fleet, much like that treasure fleet icon we get? (please add a timestamp to that treasure fleet.)

So say Dutch has a trading hub at Santa Domingo. NPC and players could help load that port with goods determined by the SD port that its NPC trades fleet needs for a destination to Willemstad. The dutch gets a notification of the goods needed and by what time. Once the fill order is completed by players and NPC the trader fleet would depart. Then sometime later on the map there would be an icon saying something like "Dutch trader fleet last spotted here around 13:00"

This could make for serious lucrative intercepts by other nations and damage the attacked nation's supply. Maybe make even a larger fleet headed from Wm to Europe....

2 hours ago, n_Ka said:

Resources will not feel random anymore

Will this have an impact on the hold contents of merchant ships(PNJ).

Yes please. Make NPC have actual pertinent goods along those routes.

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I like the sound of this patch though the comments following it are quite amusing. Someone who plays as one of the 3 hardcore nations is complaining that they do not have a capitol??? Wasn't that the WHOLE idea behind those 3 nations that they were nomadic in nature as they do NOT have an established base of operations unless they CAPTURE one. People need to stop trying to change the unique things. If you do not like playing under the characteristics of one of these 3 nations, why did you join and why not just switch to one of the main nations?

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33 minutes ago, Hawkwood said:

think there was a post from @Gregory Rainsborough about this producing/consuming thing, and in my opinion ALL  REGION capitals should be able to CONSUME foreign trading goods, not only CAPITALS. This would also enforce players to leave reinforcement zones and establish their own trading routes.

I agree with this completely.  I have also suggested in the past that clans who own more than one port may designate a Clan Capitol, which among other things, is a consuming port (paying the higher price for goods).  This would add value to RVR and cause merchant traffic in other regions.

Edited by Angus MacDuff
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15 minutes ago, Raekur said:

I like the sound of this patch though the comments following it are quite amusing. Someone who plays as one of the 3 hardcore nations is complaining that they do not have a capitol??? Wasn't that the WHOLE idea behind those 3 nations that they were nomadic in nature as they do NOT have an established base of operations unless they CAPTURE one. People need to stop trying to change the unique things. If you do not like playing under the characteristics of one of these 3 nations, why did you join and why not just switch to one of the main nations?

you dont get it. The thing is that there are not many big ports around the map like puerto de espagna, cartagena or santo domingo where they could actually do trading because right now trading is centered around the national capitals.

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44 minutes ago, Hawkwood said:

New players are punished enough because there is no proper tutorial in the game. And i mean tutorial about basic trading, crafting, wood characteristics, buildings etc., not the sailing one.

A new player starts in a capital port, has no clue what to do, and if he gets wrong answers by asking in NATION chat what he should do, he will ALWAYS stay in the reinforcement zone, hiding from everything, with the attitude " omg i could lose a ship, i am not going to leave reinforcement zone".

Where basically, everything is available in the Caribbean, you just need to grab your balls and leave the f...ng reinforcement area.

Ok, thanks for sharing.

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5 hours ago, Released Privateer said:

What about capitals? It especially hurts 3 "hardcore" nations as they don't have capitals and trading goods consumption is heavily based on capitals. Also, it makes trading in safe zones (due to capitals) very important.  Other ports are really minor, we do have Nassau, Santo Domingo and Puerto de Espana, but county capitals should be more important than they are atm. All ports need food, clothes, tools, supplies etc. Bigger cities/ports should just have higher consumption than the smaller ones.

Well you picked those nations, if your going have problem doing trade with nations that weren't even active in this time or had influence than well maybe pick something like Spain or France instead.   I mean they are called HARD CORE NATIONS for a reason.  Better yet can we just drop these and go back to actual nations that had historical presence during the time the game is based?

Other wise going to be something interesting for any of the traders that might come back.  I think it's nice change to come, but we need a wipe and test things fresh to be honest.  Maybe we can get our numbers above 100-300 players in prime time..?

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36 minutes ago, rediii said:

you dont get it. The thing is that there are not many big ports around the map like puerto de espagna, cartagena or santo domingo where they could actually do trading because right now trading is centered around the national capitals.

Actually you are missing one important change that this patch is going to cover. It will not matter if the capitol is part of the trade run because it will be the distance that determines the profit of the run. The only thing that circumvents this is generation of trade goods by delivery of local goods (which will probably be short runs that yield very little profit but are quick and will be good for low level players). Since you chose to play in a nation that does not have a centralized trade network you will not have that option. You should have known this before even making the decision to join then as it was explained IN DETAIL before those nations went active. Trying to "Add" a capitol to them now is not going to happen as it would undermine the intent of those 3 nations. If you dont like it, switch to one of the original ones. The distance being a factor should even things out which I think is the main thing I feel that invalidates your complaint. If distance is the primary determining factor then the port itself should not matter.

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1 minute ago, Raekur said:

The distance being a factor should even things out which I think is the main thing I feel that invalidates your complaint. If distance is the primary determining factor then the port itself should not matter.

I suspect it's distance but also delivery to a consuming port.  I could be wrong there, but it makes sense.  Delivery of a resource from 40k will be more lucrative than delivery of the same resource from 20k....but it still needs to be to a port that will pay the price.  @admin can you verify this?

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First looking foward to this. Looks like some much needed improvements that should add considerably to the game experience. 

Second SirTexas got the jump on my question/ suggestion. I'm not sure a full or partial wipe is required, although I'm not against it. I was thinking with the repositioning of resources and effects the other changes will have on port value. Would a map reset be in order. A fresh start would allow us and the team to see how these changes will effect the map much easier/faster allowing identification of needed tweaks to the system quickly and with greater reliability. Also allows us to provide hopefully better feedback.

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44 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Well you picked those nations, if your going have problem doing trade with nations that weren't even active in this time or had influence than well maybe pick something like Spain or France instead.   I mean they are called HARD CORE NATIONS for a reason.  Better yet can we just drop these and go back to actual nations that had historical presence during the time the game is based?

Other wise going to be something interesting for any of the traders that might come back.  I think it's nice change to come, but we need a wipe and test things fresh to be honest.  Maybe we can get our numbers above 100-300 players in prime time..?

Gatekeeping, much?

Sarcasm aside, it was never stated that the so called "hardcore" nations shall not be able to trade profitably without having to enter enemy reinforcement zones. Even those factions will need some balanced trade opportunities or they will just die out or rather be dependend on alts. And the discussion about whether or not these nation should be in the game is for another thread.

17 minutes ago, Raekur said:

Actually you are missing one important change that this patch is going to cover. It will not matter if the capitol is part of the trade run because it will be the distance that determines the profit of the run. The only thing that circumvents this is generation of trade goods by delivery of local goods (which will probably be short runs that yield very little profit but are quick and will be good for low level players). Since you chose to play in a nation that does not have a centralized trade network you will not have that option. You should have known this before even making the decision to join then as it was explained IN DETAIL before those nations went active. Trying to "Add" a capitol to them now is not going to happen as it would undermine the intent of those 3 nations. If you dont like it, switch to one of the original ones. The distance being a factor should even things out which I think is the main thing I feel that invalidates your complaint. If distance is the primary determining factor then the port itself should not matter.

Neither @Released Privateer nor @rediii asked for any capitols to be added to any nation, be it "hardcore" or not. I think the point Released (weird... I called you "Banished" before...) is trying to make is that a nation without a capital port should still be able to find capturable trade ports that at least consume some decent amount of goods. As it stands currently ports of this kind are few and far between. Even County Capitals with high BR-ratings often consume one or two goods.

@admin stated that prices are based on difference. He did not state that they are based on distance alone. Which is probably why Released (still fells weird to call you that...) is asking about whether capitals will still be the main consuming ports.

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1 hour ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Well you picked those nations, if your going have problem doing trade with nations that weren't even active in this time or had influence than well maybe pick something like Spain or France instead.   I mean they are called HARD CORE NATIONS for a reason.  Better yet can we just drop these and go back to actual nations that had historical presence during the time the game is based?

Are you serious ? 

If these nations disappear from the game then I will stop playing this game.

I will not sail under US or English flag ..... 😉

(Hmm ok on the PVE Server i sail sometimes under US Flag ^^ )

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2 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Well you picked those nations, if your going have problem doing trade with nations that weren't even active in this time or had influence than well maybe pick something like Spain or France instead.   I mean they are called HARD CORE NATIONS for a reason.  Better yet can we just drop these and go back to actual nations that had historical presence during the time the game is based?

Other wise going to be something interesting for any of the traders that might come back.  I think it's nice change to come, but we need a wipe and test things fresh to be honest.  Maybe we can get our numbers above 100-300 players in prime time..?

you dont make any sense.

Every nation should be able to capture tradehubs just like their uncaptureable capitals (the captured ones should actually be even better TBH)

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9 hours ago, admin said:

Hubs will matter more for taxes and control over resources.

Great news about hubs, however I find this information quite insufficient as the question raised quite complex.

1. How many hubs are there planned to be and their locations?
2. Will their stores be linked with other trade hubs like it was proposed (you could buy sell in one hub while docked in the other (delivery still physical)?
3. Will players be able to create player made delivery missions for other players to take?
4. When you say "resources" are those just trade goods that have nothing to do with player consumption or are they resources that players consume, e.g. to craft ships?
5. If those resources that needed for crafting what are the plans to make them available to weaker nations (linked trade hubs would sort this issue out of course if you are going to make this happen)? Example: Spain is a strong nation and is able to snatch required crafting resources from all regions. Dutch is not so strong nation and is not able to sufficiently acquire resources to be competitive. What are the options Dutch will have?

Dug out from 2 years ago (scratch anything that is NPC delivery related. It was proposed at the time to remove Free Port deliveries - no longer actual)
CsjWBYm.jpg
 

Edited by koltes
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I think you should give Sugar more value, it was really important. Molasses were important in triangular trade.

And what about Brandy or Bananas or Indian/Hasty pudding too? And the rubber or palm oil? Coconuts? Sisal/agave? Rice? Ginger?

Maybe slaves aswell...

 

Edit 22/02/19: some of them has been added, thanks you admin

Edited by SirAlatriste
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@admin those are possibly nice changes, however two things are missing:

1. if you link profit to length of sailing, you will promote boring AFK sailing. It would be better to create a few very lucrative trade routes, which everyone knows about, which can be raided. Then risk = reward, not work = reward. It's better setup for the game

2. right now reals mean nothing. Doing 4h of trading set me up for 6 months of crafting from my calculation. I bet I'll find new ways to hack new system as well. We need more meaningful things (ships, or population-limited mods) to buy with money instead of doubloons. Right now only doubloons are a true limitation. This means that reals will always keep loosing value to doubloons, which makes trading a pointless activity.

Edited by vazco
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5 hours ago, vazco said:

@admin those are possibly nice changes, however two things are missing:

1. if you link profit to length of sailing, you will promote boring AFK sailing. It would be better to create a few very lucrative trade routes, which everyone knows about, which can be raided. Then risk = reward, not work = reward. It's better setup for the game

2. right now reals mean nothing. Doing 4h of trading set me up for 6 months of crafting from my calculation. I bet I'll find new ways to hack new system as well. We need more meaningful things (ships, or population-limited mods) to buy with money instead of doubloons. Right now only doubloons are a true limitation. This means that reals will always keep loosing value to doubloons, which makes trading a pointless activity.

"right now reals mean nothing" - for you, may be. not for me for example.

"Right now only doubloons are a true limitation" - lie. You can grind them as much as you needs. And you can do it fast now, 2-3K per hour - easy, more if you ale lucky.
But trading, trading is limited by drop factor, plus competition, plus port overflow.

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39 minutes ago, SnovaZdorowa said:

"right now reals mean nothing" - for you, may be. not for me for example.

"Right now only doubloons are a true limitation" - lie. You can grind them as much as you needs. And you can do it fast now, 2-3K per hour - easy, more if you ale lucky.
But trading, trading is limited by drop factor, plus competition, plus port overflow.

Last time I checked sell price for doubloons was 200 reals per one. For 2mil reals you can buy materials to craft multiple 1st rates, which gives you doubloons for one. Doubloons are still a limiting factor :)

Edited by vazco

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7 minutes ago, vazco said:

Last time I checked sell price for doubloons was 200 reals per one. For 2mil reals you can buy materials to craft multiple 1st rates, which gives you doubloons for one. Doubloons are still a limiting factor :)

Why are you use Ask price? Almost sure Bid price is more correct.

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9 minutes ago, qw569 said:

Why are you use Ask price? Almost sure Bid price is more correct.

Ask price is 100, which gives the same result - for 1 mil you can buy craft materials for multiple 1st rates.

Personally I'm pretty sure sell price is more correct as there are more ask offers than sell offers, however both give the same conclusion.

ps. Everyone can have his own opinion, but luckily it's impossible to argue with data :) 

Edited by vazco
ask and sell offers were mixed

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7 hours ago, SirAlatriste said:

Maybe slaves aswell...

I have the strong suspicion that "labour contracts" represent those. I doubt many free workers were employed on the plantations in the caribbean back then and even if so, would you be able to sell them to others with a few papers?

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btw, allowing to buy labour contracts for reals would stabilize reals a lot already. Simple and effective.

Edited by vazco
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