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Dynamic Open World PVP


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1 hour ago, Preechur Blackheart said:

 

 

Not to diminish your point about shortening the mod gap and availability between what elite players and newer players have, which is a valid one, but I have the following problems with your other arguments:

  • No one is forcing the recreational players to come in expensive ships. In Chris' case, I understand the hesitation, since they were in Bellonas. But, I guarantee you that if Chris and his gang had been in frigates, the results would've been exactly the same--speaking from experience. 5 good frigates against 10+ store frigates would be a fun fight, and the recreational players do have a chance due to the sheer number of repairs on their side. 
  • Even in the fights which we find, nothing in my experience tells me that these recreational players are at all interested in actually fighting, they simply treat PVP like a chore. So then I ask, what are they "conserving resources" for? Am I seriously to believe they lose ships in PVE consistently enough to warrant conservation of resources? Because I have seen US players gank even the AI fleets. 
  • Fighting other elites is good, and we do. The problem that the US primetime players face, is that there are very limited sources of PVP at this time, and one of the few places are the capitals. What this means is that hunters congregate around the capital areas, and it's normally Charleston at this timezone for obvious reasons. Attacking other hunters around a mutual enemy capital is a bad idea, because it is likely these recreational players will join on one side to gank the other--turning what would've been an interesting fight into a boring gank chase. It is also likely that these recreational players will then turn around and gank the hunters that just helped them--or ignore them completely. So, not much incentive for hunters to hunt each other around Charleston during US prime time.
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27 minutes ago, Silfarion said:

Not to diminish your point about shortening the mod gap and availability between what elite players and newer players have, which is a valid one, but I have the following problems with your other arguments:

  • No one is forcing the recreational players to come in expensive ships. In Chris' case, I understand the hesitation, since they were in Bellonas. But, I guarantee you that if Chris and his gang had been in frigates, the results would've been exactly the same--speaking from experience. 5 good frigates against 10+ store frigates would be a fun fight, and the recreational players do have a chance due to the sheer number of repairs on their side. 
  • Even in the fights which we find, nothing in my experience tells me that these recreational players are at all interested in actually fighting, they simply treat PVP like a chore. So then I ask, what are they "conserving resources" for? Am I seriously to believe they lose ships in PVE consistently enough to warrant conservation of resources? Because I have seen US players gank even the AI fleets. 
  • Fighting other elites is good, and we do. The problem that the US primetime players face, is that there are very limited sources of PVP at this time, and one of the few places are the capitals. What this means is that hunters congregate around the capital areas, and it's normally Charleston at this timezone for obvious reasons. Attacking other hunters around a mutual enemy capital is a bad idea, because it is likely these recreational players will join on one side to gank the other--turning what would've been an interesting fight into a boring gank chase. It is also likely that these recreational players will then turn around and gank the hunters that just helped them--or ignore them completely. So, not much incentive for hunters to hunt each other around Charleston during US prime time.

Thank you for your response. Being in social sciences, it is an interesting question to ask of a recreational player why he or she fights or doesn't fight.

Please remember that recreational players are under no obligation to provide fights for elites. Some players do enjoy the fight, even if they lose. Other players enjoy the game without fighting!!!  I do not think any player enjoys consistently losing. But if you an elite and you are sitting outside my port, you should have NO expectation that I (if I am a recreational player)  should sally forth. It is a game. If I think I will have fun, I will sally forth. If I want to 'conserve resources' that is my right, End of story.  

There is a risk/reward calculation that a player makes before VOLUNTARILY entering a battle (many battles are not a player's choice, obviously, if one wants to sail or trade there is always the risk of a battle. It actually adds to the enjoyment of sailing when one successfully avoids a fight that one would have lost...)

Some of the variables in the risk/reward calculation include:

1) Do I know the identity of the enemy player (from combat reports or intel from other players). If so, is the other player known to be elite? 

2) What is my skill level? Is the other player equivalent in skill and equippage, or only slightly better than me? Or so much better than me that I would not stand a chance?

3) What is the value to me of the ship I would take into the battle? Is it a throwaway ship? A DLC? Does the ship I COULD risk have mods that I would find hard to replace? Especially now that shipbuilders seem to have stopped building 4th rates and above, could I even FIND a replacement ship to buy (assuming I could afford it?)

4) Do I have the TIME to commit to a battle? For many recreational players, there is this thing called "family aggro' which means that the wife or the kids may demand my time and they are more important than the game. So we cannot come charging out to a battle if we may be called away in 10-15 minutes. This was the reason I did not enter the battle that prompted this discussion, even though I had a Connie in Brunswick at the time...

5) Are there others who will enter the fray on my side? Will that be a fun experience (in the US, almost all the players are a blast to sail with - very supportive and cheerful)? Group battles require a much more complex calculation of risk/reward.

I am sure other recreational players can come up with other reasons they may decline the chance to come out and fight. 

I know it is frustrating to sail looking for PvP and not find it. It might be productive to muse on how to incentivize lesser players to come forth.

IMHO It would be AWESOME if we had duel rooms where we could fight without the loser losing a ship! Then, if called away, we could concede the battle without cost...

Respectfully submitted...

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i can let you know why we were waiting, we had a first rate and about four more ships coming from Ctown,

yah, we waited for those guys to come all the way from the capitol, Why? because why deny them the chance to fight too? for us, "casuals" killing pirates is a community event, sure we don' t do it every day,  but its fun for us, to get on teamspeak as a big group and fight you. You may not like the odds, but, Who cares, just an hour ago i was jumped by about 4 pirates outside st marys, and a revenge fleet waiting, so, it happens to both sides. its the same guys fighting each night, if you don't like it, like was previously suggested, take it somewhere else.

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10 hours ago, Wraith said:

 There are no wolves in the U.S. nation, and there are no sheep-dogs because, well, they're all sheep

 

So keep coming and hunting the sheep, and don't be upset if it doesn't work out 100% of the time.  Don't know what you expect of "sheep".  Even domestic animals will bite if you annoy the wool off of them long enough.  

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On 12/19/2018 at 12:13 AM, DreamMaker said:

LOOOL? go try stay near Tuspan and you can blame "Dynamic pvp" forever... have you heard about PVP area, Port Royal, Fort Royal ? 

At this time of the day (between 8 and 12pm Eastern Time) there is no reasons to go to Port/Fort Royal. PVP area is also abandoned. Server pop is around 120 people and US is the only other nation that can have decent amount of players for a fight. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

If people only do pve because that’s what they like and have time constraints and a million other reasons then I ask: why be in the pvp server?

i know better than most the pain it is to find pvp in the us prime time. It’s been an issue for a couple years now so it’s not just because of patch a, b or c. It’s in the mentality of the players that play in that nation and then spreads to new players.

I personally miss the days of flags and action and being in a full team speak and all the craziness but I fear those days are gone and will never come back

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4 hours ago, Simon Cadete said:

I personally miss the days of flags and action and being in a full team speak and all the craziness but I fear those days are gone and will never come back

Don't forget that many people complained about all the false flags and campaigned against flags.

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On 1/12/2019 at 12:36 PM, Simon Cadete said:

If people only do pve because that’s what they like and have time constraints and a million other reasons then I ask: why be in the pvp server?

i know better than most the pain it is to find pvp in the us prime time. It’s been an issue for a couple years now so it’s not just because of patch a, b or c. It’s in the mentality of the players that play in that nation and then spreads to new players.

I personally miss the days of flags and action and being in a full team speak and all the craziness but I fear those days are gone and will never come back

I don't understand this at all.  In what way does the US players mentality differ from any other player?  Maybe you mean geography?  Population?

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Lack of patience and perseverance ( this in regards of learning the game as is ) and wish to really learn the game at War server level - OW and RvR PB.

Battles designed to last, possibly 90 minutes. If anything lasts more than 15 most of them will "escape" the battle. There are exceptions but they are too few to counter the herd.

Nevermind ability to control the ships and wind and whatnot. If at 5 minutes into the battle they already bored, nothing can help...

Just my 2 cents first hand testimony while US a couple months ago and randomly going up there to give them a hand versus the usual raiders...

Let alone the "don't attack ! it's a trap!" mentality :). Even the most basic "gamey" concept of setting up a revenge web seems alien - you see all escapees making a beeline back to port...

But, on the other hand they are the most roleplayish of communties, in general, which I really really appreciate more than all the uberskillzorz out there. ( they can also be the most offensive nation chat though )

But things are going to change i'm sure. It is NA cycle.

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5 hours ago, Chevalier du Ethuville said:

Lack of patience and perseverance ( this in regards of learning the game as is ) and wish to really learn the game at War server level - OW and RvR PB.

Battles designed to last, possibly 90 minutes. If anything lasts more than 15 most of them will "escape" the battle. There are exceptions but they are too few to counter the herd.

Nevermind ability to control the ships and wind and whatnot. If at 5 minutes into the battle they already bored, nothing can help...

Just my 2 cents first hand testimony while US a couple months ago and randomly going up there to give them a hand versus the usual raiders...

Let alone the "don't attack ! it's a trap!" mentality :). Even the most basic "gamey" concept of setting up a revenge web seems alien - you see all escapees making a beeline back to port...

But, on the other hand they are the most roleplayish of communties, in general, which I really really appreciate more than all the uberskillzorz out there. ( they can also be the most offensive nation chat though )

But things are going to change i'm sure. It is NA cycle.

This seems absurd to me.  We PvP every single day friend, if that isn't learning then what is?  Many of these fights last 1.5 hrs.  

Controlling ships: double clicking a and c or staying upwind when possible isn't exactly quantum physics. 

Setting up a revenge web:  This thread was started because of one.  

It's almost comical listening to others rail on the US.  We're just guys who are sticking with a sub par team out of loyalty and respect and a spirit of sportsmanship and competition.  No, we're not great at the game.  Sorry this bothers so many people,  however funny it may be.  

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Nothing at all good sir. I admire the brave Yanks and know many do engage in battles :) and is a great nation to be.

Glad you and others like you will change the overall feel up there, and as i said, despite all shortcomings, one of the most interesting communities.

I rather bathe in some nation chat blood than constant pro salt. o7

 

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On 1/15/2019 at 10:15 AM, Chevalier du Ethuville said:

Nothing at all good sir. I admire the brave Yanks and know many do engage in battles :) and is a great nation to be.

Glad you and others like you will change the overall feel up there, and as i said, despite all shortcomings, one of the most interesting communities.

I rather bathe in some nation chat blood than constant pro salt. o7

 

Thank you, dyin' is tryin'!

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