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8 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

Next time don't go to the PVE zone looking for PVP ya dingus.

Where would you suggest, then?

PvP zone with all its lovely gank-encouraging mechanics? No thanks. 

Someone should really come up with good suggestions for PvP zones. Wait...they already did! But localization and translation is much more important than the declining quality of PvP ........*facepalm*

Maybe I should cruise around the map, hoping to find a lone warship or two? Been there, tried that. Hours of empty seas. Sorry but with ~100 players online that kind of PvP hunting doesn’t work. 

All these brilliant EU crowd of PvP1 pros (and some deluded US time zone playersattempting to tell US time zone players how to play is truly the funniest part of this thread. Seriously...you have two places to get PvP in our time zone: PvP zones (crap RoE) or safezones (equally frustrating).

 

Make no mistake, we’d rather fight in normal OW engagements against a willing enemy...but when population is low and all the targets (including rear admirals with 1000hrs+ in game) are in their safe zone grinding AI....well you go where the players are. 

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5 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

With all due respect, what you wrote above that almost provoked a stroke on another forum user is one of the most unfortunate comments i've read in a while :) 

Look, I respect your and @Vernon Merrill's style of play very much. In my heart, that's all I'd like to do is sail my Rattler or Prince around all day and hunt player traders like a true Privateer or Pyrate.  But where you and your fellow #UsualSuspects get your eyerolls from the larger community is in your blind Like-button-mashing on any change or suggestion the dev's dribble our way, especially the ones that have such obvious defects and negative impacts on RvR, PvP, and game styles that don't fit the ROVER/Raker creed.

The sycophantic tendency of blind dev support has not been good for the game.  I don't think I've ever seen you be critical of a change and that feels bad man, when so many of those changes have clearly deleterious consequences on game play diversity, players, and the long term prospects of this game. And that to me is very sad.

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22 minutes ago, Christendom said:

In the span of the hour and a half our battle was being fought, the kills in that battle were the only news to be displayed on combat news.  It's probable that were in the only PVP battle on the server during that time period.  Rather sad I'd say.  

The battle was meh.  22v6 with their side having 4x our BR and we still made half their fleet pull off and leave the battle from damage or being demasted.  We lost 3.  I say we won that fight.  We still ended up getting more doubloons for the evening sinking you 3x in a row.

Let's keep in mind that this was at the edge of the reinforcement zone, within a 3-4 min sail from Saint Marys.  A pirate port.  It's not like we were camping CT for content here.  I personally don't mind the safe zones, but I think the ROE in them is preposterous.  2 minute join timers while the other side can reinforce up to 30mins?  Sounds like one of those ROVER ideas that admin coded into the game.  

The point of this post was to highlight the absurdity that is OW PVP in this game outside the Patrol Zones.  If this is the game that admin has envisioned, it's pretty terrible.

the cope is real

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I'm sorry guys, unfortunately you have to adapt.

Sitting still waiting for a ganking achieves nothing really.

Fighting in lineships hugging upwind waiting for people to make mistakes doesn't attract the PvP player your after, they know what battle to expect from 6 bellonas sat waiting at the reinforcement.

I know many players who don't have the funds in game to fight in bellonas, at the moment anyway, they are poor. You should try using frigates. Even a mix of 5-4th rates. I'm sure you'll receive a better reception.

Ofc if I'm wrong I'll delete this account.

Carry on being dynamic.

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7 minutes ago, traitorous mctraitoro said:

I'm sorry guys, unfortunately you have to adapt.

Sitting still waiting for a ganking achieves nothing really.

Fighting in lineships hugging upwind waiting for people to make mistakes doesn't attract the PvP player your after, they know what battle to expect from 6 bellonas sat waiting at the reinforcement.

I know many players who don't have the funds in game to fight in bellonas, at the moment anyway, they are poor. You should try using frigates. Even a mix of 5-4th rates. I'm sure you'll receive a better reception.

Ofc if I'm wrong I'll delete this account.

Carry on being dynamic.

You seriously have no idea what you're talking about and are missing the point entirely. So please do delete that account and carry on your dynamic way. 

If you're still reading, then being pedantic and patronizing about showing up in line ships vs. frigates is missing the point entirely. You clearly don't know how long we've all been at this game if you think that using frigates isn't in our wheelhouse. Pirates most often are in groups of 1-5, sailing the coasts in fast, paper-mache 4th-6th rates, and we almost never get a fight beyond catching someone outside the reinforcement zone. There are no wolves in the U.S. nation, and there are no sheep-dogs because, well, they're all sheep, with a few notable exceptions ala @Slim McSauce.

The U.S. are all rich because they literally have an entire coastline to PvE and trade in with little to no risk now. They all have plenty of doubloons because they grind damage in "PvP" events with basic cutters. So I contend that it has nothing to do with wealth, and only to do with attitude. They had plenty of Bellonas and first rates in that battle. The problem is they wouldn't risk them unless they had overwhelming numbers, which we allowed them. 

The point of all of this, including the OP, is that this is a testament to a dying game, built on a crumbling foundation of fragile mechanics and poor feedback systems to support the "dynamic" PvP you claim to find at will (I suspect you actually don't find it very often but if you do, more power to you, you must live in a better time zone than we do). The North American player base has simply evaporated because of one simple fact:  Fun in Naval Action is too hard and takes too long to find across all play styles.

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6 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Look, I respect your and @Vernon Merrill's style of play very much. In my heart, that's all I'd like to do is sail my Rattler or Prince around all day and hunt player traders like a true Privateer or Pyrate.  But where you and your fellow #UsualSuspects get your eyerolls from the larger community is in your blind Like-button-mashing on any change or suggestion the dev's dribble our way, especially the ones that have such obvious defects and negative impacts on RvR, PvP, and game styles that don't fit the ROVER/Raker creed.

The sycophantic tendency of blind dev support has not been good for the game.  I don't think I've ever seen you be critical of a change and that feels bad man, when so many of those changes have clearly deleterious consequences on game play diversity, players, and the long term prospects of this game. And that to me is very sad.

Hey Wraith, you know our little forum PvP is just for fun....

Listen, there are TONS of things that we disagree with the devs about...  the difference is that we don't immediately start threads about how "Change X is RUINING THE GAME!!!!" (not saying YOU do, just making an example...).  Many of the times, my "likes" of Admins posts are more about supporting experiments to change mechanics while the came can still be altered pre-release.  I, for one, will ALWAYS be disappointed that the OW is so static and lacks the ability to have improvements and destruction based on player inputs.  However, I realize that this is not a AAA-level studio with unlimited money and resources.  It's just the way it is....

And what you're not realizing is that for every patch 27 that brought the game more in line with MY preferred playstyle, there have MULTIPLE changes which I have NOT enjoyed and/or thought have been actually bad for the game.  Reinforcement zones I think are rubbish....  Patrol zones I think are rubbish....  The whole concept of "Mods"I think is rubbish...  I think most of the ROVERS would agree with this.

But its not MY (or ROVERS) game to change....   It's the devs.  

SOOOOO, in the end, I can either choose to play the game as delivered, and applaud or CONSTRUCTIVELY critique and new changes, without resorting to breathless hyperbole....

BUT, I cannot in good conscience, mercilessly flame, drag, question the intelligence of, or personally insult a group of people who have provided me with both 5000+ hours of mostly enjoyment for $40 (less than 1 cent/hr.), but more importantly, provided the means by which I have met a great group of guys that I communicate with on a daily basis.

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@Wraith My point was, if I wasn't so clear, is that that PvP you say you want won't happen in bellonas on the USA coast. Mainly because the pvpers are poor and don't live there.

But I suppose I did say you would just say I have no idea, your more experienced. I've been playing for 2 weeks.

I wish all I did was just try different things all the time, on different ships, with different mods, at different areas, with different players. If I did that I might have some idea of what I'm talking about.

See you tomorrow at Havana in your 6 bellonas.

Edited by traitorous mctraitoro

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2 minutes ago, traitorous mctraitoro said:

@Wraith My point was, if I wasn't so clear, is that that PvP you say you want won't happen in bellonas on the USA coast. Mainly because the pvpers are poor and don't live there.

But I suppose I did say you would just say I have no idea, your more experienced. I've been playing for 2 weeks.

I wish all I did was just try different things all the time, on different ships, with different mods, at different areas, with different players. If I did that I might have some idea of what I'm talking about.

See you tomorrow at Havana in your 6 bellonas.

I know who you are and am not claiming you're inexperienced, as you should probably know we are not either. So perhaps we can dispense with the snide comments about "trying new things," because we both have probably tried it all over the years and have a pretty good idea of what "works" and what doesn't.

The fact is that what is illustrated here, and in that original screen shot, is actually an anomaly.  But the take-home is that the reason that it's happening is that it's the last gasp from players that are tired of a game that does not work. There's precious little Action in Naval Action anymore, and its a combination of mechanics and players that are making it happen, leading to a dearth of fun for everyone.

As a result, you won't find us outside Havanna at any time during U.S. prime time, you know why?  There's no one there.

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Let me speak a little truth to power:

There are certain players (and clans) who are superior players. Elite in both player skill and modded ships. As a less skilled, and less well equipped player, getting into a fight with the elites is in anything close to an equal number of ships is a guaranteed loss. That may be fun for the elite, but not so much for the lesser skilled and/or modded player.

So if Christendom or Wraith or Banished or any of a number of other elite players wander the US Coast, why would we charge out there for a fight that will pretty much guarantee us to lose our ships? 

This game has a serious issue with the PERCEIVED power of the modules and books. The Book of 5 Rings, for example, is out of reach for noobs and most lesser players. The elites have earned their gold, fully equipped ships. They have earned their reputations. They can have their fun by fighting other elites. Don't complain that recreational players prefer to conserve resources by not engaging an elite.

Solution? Lessen module power,. Lessen Book power. Narrow the gap between the elite and the recreational player. Lessen the cost to replace ships so the recreational player doesn't fear losing a major investment in time and resources. Bring back duras so a recreational player can lose a ships several times before having to replace it.

#noteliteandhonestaboutit

#Istillenjoythegameanyway

 

 

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1 hour ago, Preechur Blackheart said:

 

 

Not to diminish your point about shortening the mod gap and availability between what elite players and newer players have, which is a valid one, but I have the following problems with your other arguments:

  • No one is forcing the recreational players to come in expensive ships. In Chris' case, I understand the hesitation, since they were in Bellonas. But, I guarantee you that if Chris and his gang had been in frigates, the results would've been exactly the same--speaking from experience. 5 good frigates against 10+ store frigates would be a fun fight, and the recreational players do have a chance due to the sheer number of repairs on their side. 
  • Even in the fights which we find, nothing in my experience tells me that these recreational players are at all interested in actually fighting, they simply treat PVP like a chore. So then I ask, what are they "conserving resources" for? Am I seriously to believe they lose ships in PVE consistently enough to warrant conservation of resources? Because I have seen US players gank even the AI fleets. 
  • Fighting other elites is good, and we do. The problem that the US primetime players face, is that there are very limited sources of PVP at this time, and one of the few places are the capitals. What this means is that hunters congregate around the capital areas, and it's normally Charleston at this timezone for obvious reasons. Attacking other hunters around a mutual enemy capital is a bad idea, because it is likely these recreational players will join on one side to gank the other--turning what would've been an interesting fight into a boring gank chase. It is also likely that these recreational players will then turn around and gank the hunters that just helped them--or ignore them completely. So, not much incentive for hunters to hunt each other around Charleston during US prime time.
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27 minutes ago, Silfarion said:

Not to diminish your point about shortening the mod gap and availability between what elite players and newer players have, which is a valid one, but I have the following problems with your other arguments:

  • No one is forcing the recreational players to come in expensive ships. In Chris' case, I understand the hesitation, since they were in Bellonas. But, I guarantee you that if Chris and his gang had been in frigates, the results would've been exactly the same--speaking from experience. 5 good frigates against 10+ store frigates would be a fun fight, and the recreational players do have a chance due to the sheer number of repairs on their side. 
  • Even in the fights which we find, nothing in my experience tells me that these recreational players are at all interested in actually fighting, they simply treat PVP like a chore. So then I ask, what are they "conserving resources" for? Am I seriously to believe they lose ships in PVE consistently enough to warrant conservation of resources? Because I have seen US players gank even the AI fleets. 
  • Fighting other elites is good, and we do. The problem that the US primetime players face, is that there are very limited sources of PVP at this time, and one of the few places are the capitals. What this means is that hunters congregate around the capital areas, and it's normally Charleston at this timezone for obvious reasons. Attacking other hunters around a mutual enemy capital is a bad idea, because it is likely these recreational players will join on one side to gank the other--turning what would've been an interesting fight into a boring gank chase. It is also likely that these recreational players will then turn around and gank the hunters that just helped them--or ignore them completely. So, not much incentive for hunters to hunt each other around Charleston during US prime time.

Thank you for your response. Being in social sciences, it is an interesting question to ask of a recreational player why he or she fights or doesn't fight.

Please remember that recreational players are under no obligation to provide fights for elites. Some players do enjoy the fight, even if they lose. Other players enjoy the game without fighting!!!  I do not think any player enjoys consistently losing. But if you an elite and you are sitting outside my port, you should have NO expectation that I (if I am a recreational player)  should sally forth. It is a game. If I think I will have fun, I will sally forth. If I want to 'conserve resources' that is my right, End of story.  

There is a risk/reward calculation that a player makes before VOLUNTARILY entering a battle (many battles are not a player's choice, obviously, if one wants to sail or trade there is always the risk of a battle. It actually adds to the enjoyment of sailing when one successfully avoids a fight that one would have lost...)

Some of the variables in the risk/reward calculation include:

1) Do I know the identity of the enemy player (from combat reports or intel from other players). If so, is the other player known to be elite? 

2) What is my skill level? Is the other player equivalent in skill and equippage, or only slightly better than me? Or so much better than me that I would not stand a chance?

3) What is the value to me of the ship I would take into the battle? Is it a throwaway ship? A DLC? Does the ship I COULD risk have mods that I would find hard to replace? Especially now that shipbuilders seem to have stopped building 4th rates and above, could I even FIND a replacement ship to buy (assuming I could afford it?)

4) Do I have the TIME to commit to a battle? For many recreational players, there is this thing called "family aggro' which means that the wife or the kids may demand my time and they are more important than the game. So we cannot come charging out to a battle if we may be called away in 10-15 minutes. This was the reason I did not enter the battle that prompted this discussion, even though I had a Connie in Brunswick at the time...

5) Are there others who will enter the fray on my side? Will that be a fun experience (in the US, almost all the players are a blast to sail with - very supportive and cheerful)? Group battles require a much more complex calculation of risk/reward.

I am sure other recreational players can come up with other reasons they may decline the chance to come out and fight. 

I know it is frustrating to sail looking for PvP and not find it. It might be productive to muse on how to incentivize lesser players to come forth.

IMHO It would be AWESOME if we had duel rooms where we could fight without the loser losing a ship! Then, if called away, we could concede the battle without cost...

Respectfully submitted...

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5 hours ago, traitorous mctraitoro said:

Havana is actually very crowded. At least their revenge fleet is active, and very quickly active. Traders always sailing around there.

What you guys are failing to understand.

Meh.

Agreed: Havana has way more folks travelling around then outside Charleston or even fort royal....Even in US primetime.    but be careful....they are not newbs ;)

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i can let you know why we were waiting, we had a first rate and about four more ships coming from Ctown,

yah, we waited for those guys to come all the way from the capitol, Why? because why deny them the chance to fight too? for us, "casuals" killing pirates is a community event, sure we don' t do it every day,  but its fun for us, to get on teamspeak as a big group and fight you. You may not like the odds, but, Who cares, just an hour ago i was jumped by about 4 pirates outside st marys, and a revenge fleet waiting, so, it happens to both sides. its the same guys fighting each night, if you don't like it, like was previously suggested, take it somewhere else.

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10 hours ago, Wraith said:

 There are no wolves in the U.S. nation, and there are no sheep-dogs because, well, they're all sheep

 

So keep coming and hunting the sheep, and don't be upset if it doesn't work out 100% of the time.  Don't know what you expect of "sheep".  Even domestic animals will bite if you annoy the wool off of them long enough.  

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5 hours ago, Capsize More said:

So keep coming and hunting the sheep, and don't be upset if it doesn't work out 100% of the time.  Don't know what you expect of "sheep".  Even domestic animals will bite if you annoy the wool off of them long enough.  

We’ve given up. Two minute join timers and lack of targets outside safe zones makes finding battles and Action a real time sink. Other games look far more appealing these days. 

Flip St. Mary’s please and prove to us you’re not just bleaters. I mean we could have fun, even battles every other night if you all wanted to actually scrabble over a meaningless port and practice as groups?

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On 12/19/2018 at 12:13 AM, DreamMaker said:

LOOOL? go try stay near Tuspan and you can blame "Dynamic pvp" forever... have you heard about PVP area, Port Royal, Fort Royal ? 

At this time of the day (between 8 and 12pm Eastern Time) there is no reasons to go to Port/Fort Royal. PVP area is also abandoned. Server pop is around 120 people and US is the only other nation that can have decent amount of players for a fight. 

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Talking about PVP OW dynamism, Alucar and others did ask so many time to implement repairs drop/production in every ports of the map.

This detail would really help peeps who enjoy hunting around.

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If people only do pve because that’s what they like and have time constraints and a million other reasons then I ask: why be in the pvp server?

i know better than most the pain it is to find pvp in the us prime time. It’s been an issue for a couple years now so it’s not just because of patch a, b or c. It’s in the mentality of the players that play in that nation and then spreads to new players.

I personally miss the days of flags and action and being in a full team speak and all the craziness but I fear those days are gone and will never come back

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4 hours ago, Simon Cadete said:

I personally miss the days of flags and action and being in a full team speak and all the craziness but I fear those days are gone and will never come back

Don't forget that many people complained about all the false flags and campaigned against flags.

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On 1/12/2019 at 12:36 PM, Simon Cadete said:

If people only do pve because that’s what they like and have time constraints and a million other reasons then I ask: why be in the pvp server?

i know better than most the pain it is to find pvp in the us prime time. It’s been an issue for a couple years now so it’s not just because of patch a, b or c. It’s in the mentality of the players that play in that nation and then spreads to new players.

I personally miss the days of flags and action and being in a full team speak and all the craziness but I fear those days are gone and will never come back

I don't understand this at all.  In what way does the US players mentality differ from any other player?  Maybe you mean geography?  Population?

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Lack of patience and perseverance ( this in regards of learning the game as is ) and wish to really learn the game at War server level - OW and RvR PB.

Battles designed to last, possibly 90 minutes. If anything lasts more than 15 most of them will "escape" the battle. There are exceptions but they are too few to counter the herd.

Nevermind ability to control the ships and wind and whatnot. If at 5 minutes into the battle they already bored, nothing can help...

Just my 2 cents first hand testimony while US a couple months ago and randomly going up there to give them a hand versus the usual raiders...

Let alone the "don't attack ! it's a trap!" mentality :). Even the most basic "gamey" concept of setting up a revenge web seems alien - you see all escapees making a beeline back to port...

But, on the other hand they are the most roleplayish of communties, in general, which I really really appreciate more than all the uberskillzorz out there. ( they can also be the most offensive nation chat though )

But things are going to change i'm sure. It is NA cycle.

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Haha they complain about having no one to fight in their timezone yet are still too afraid to hello kitty with WO. 

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5 hours ago, Chevalier du Ethuville said:

Lack of patience and perseverance ( this in regards of learning the game as is ) and wish to really learn the game at War server level - OW and RvR PB.

Battles designed to last, possibly 90 minutes. If anything lasts more than 15 most of them will "escape" the battle. There are exceptions but they are too few to counter the herd.

Nevermind ability to control the ships and wind and whatnot. If at 5 minutes into the battle they already bored, nothing can help...

Just my 2 cents first hand testimony while US a couple months ago and randomly going up there to give them a hand versus the usual raiders...

Let alone the "don't attack ! it's a trap!" mentality :). Even the most basic "gamey" concept of setting up a revenge web seems alien - you see all escapees making a beeline back to port...

But, on the other hand they are the most roleplayish of communties, in general, which I really really appreciate more than all the uberskillzorz out there. ( they can also be the most offensive nation chat though )

But things are going to change i'm sure. It is NA cycle.

This seems absurd to me.  We PvP every single day friend, if that isn't learning then what is?  Many of these fights last 1.5 hrs.  

Controlling ships: double clicking a and c or staying upwind when possible isn't exactly quantum physics. 

Setting up a revenge web:  This thread was started because of one.  

It's almost comical listening to others rail on the US.  We're just guys who are sticking with a sub par team out of loyalty and respect and a spirit of sportsmanship and competition.  No, we're not great at the game.  Sorry this bothers so many people,  however funny it may be.  

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