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Thonys

Identify your enemy

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Yes, you are right. 

Game should be then reduce to 2 nations / nation blocks.

That way we can dispense the "enemy player" and just show the faction.

That way is always a enemy in War.

Oh wait... he may be a friend... :(

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8 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Ah well, off to Peace Server with me then. Eventually both will be the same with so many friends. o7

Both servers are not the same.  On the peace server there is very little risk.  On the war server there are more options for interactions between players.  

Please continue to play on the war server where players can have many friends, for various reasons, and also have even more foes.

On the war server an enemy player can be a friend, and another enemy player can be a foe.  It makes for more varied potential gameplay than the peace server.  More options.  More content. Richer story.

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16 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Yes, you are right. 

Game should be then reduce to 2 nations / nation blocks.

That way we can dispense the "enemy player" and just show the faction.

That way is always a enemy in War.

Oh wait... he may be a friend... :(

you can when identified your friend attack him or ....you can attack the "not friend"  its your choice, what is it  gone be ... it's your choice.

Edited by Thonys

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I would prefer if the ID remained the same with the addition of comms between all players in game.

Add option to hail enemy player, that sends a text identifying the sender.  The enemy player can chose to open chat and identify himself, or keep chat closed.  If chat is agreed to be open then information of name, clan and rank is displayed.

Also need to be able to ignore players in battle.  Not all communication is good for gameplay.

Edited by Macjimm
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I guess this topic can deviate on the issue of Nation based map but clan based diplomacy.

If we stay in clan based, the Nation does not really matter anymore.

Then, in clan based, we should recognize "allied clan" or "enemy clans" like the nation flag basic info.

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Ok, then. What about reintroduce this feature in other way: you should be able to see the player name and get a conversation  only if the ships are completely  stopped, side by side, at the distance of a shout conversation (the historicaly way at that time). Would you risk? It is a friend, ok! But if is foe? You get an instant broadside right in the beginning of the fight.

No. There was no radio or neon lights on that time. You only need to know if is a friend or foe. Series of problems happened when this kind of things were on (specially casual ganking, when 3 or more guys of different nations crossed in the OW). I saw this kind of things several times and got bad remembrance of it.

 Large base of community asked to get rid of it. Devs listened the complaints and turned it off. Should keep that way.

Edited by La bouche

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19 minutes ago, Macjimm said:

I would prefer if the ID remained the same with the addition of comms between all players in game.

Add option to hail enemy player, that sends a text identifying the sender.  The enemy player can chose to open chat and identify himself, or keep chat closed.  If chat is agreed to be open then information of name, clan and rank is displayed.

Also need to be able to ignore players in battle.  Not all communication is good for gameplay.

That is somewhat interesting, but it needs to work only if both players agreed to get close each other at a distance capable to nullify any tactical advantage to both players (maybe the way it works to trade in OW ).

But, frankly, i don’t think it will work, because people will use it to exploit that mechanics to trick the enemy and attack. Better to get in battle and chat there.

Edited by La bouche

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8 minutes ago, La bouche said:

Ok, then. What about reintroduce this feature in other way: you should be able to see the player name and get a conversation  only if the ships are completely  stopped, side by side, at the distance of a shout conversation (the historicaly way at that time). Would you risk? It is a friend, ok! But if is foe? You get an instant broadside right in the beginning of the fight.

No. There was no radio or neon lights on that time. You only need to know if is a friend or foe. Series of problems happened when this kind of things were on (specially casual ganking, when 3 or more guys of different nations crossed in the OW). I saw this kind of things several times and got bad remembrance of it.

 Large base of community asked to get rid of it. Devs listened the complaints and turned it off. Should keep that way.

comms in OW should be closed for many reasons, and stay that way. 

There is no arguing with that.that was a good decision. in the battle the option is there to close the chat, the topic  is not about communication, or conversation 

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1 minute ago, La bouche said:

, because people will use it to exploit that mechanics to trick the enemy and attack.

Hmmm ....

Can you explain.

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2 minutes ago, Macjimm said:

Hmmm ....

Can you explain.

Sure. 

The player could trick the other, hoisting an “truce flag, just to get close, cease the conversation and attack with big tactical advantage...

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7 minutes ago, Thonys said:

the topic  is not about communication, or conversation

Damn, i think i got it now...English is not my native language and i get time to understand 🤦🏻‍♂️.

Are you proposing some kind of visual identifying by flags? Like in real navy? Diferent types of flags to identify rank and some generic intel?

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2 minutes ago, La bouche said:

Sure. 

The player could trick the other, hoisting an “truce flag, just to get close, cease the conversation and attack with big tactical advantage...

So.  That just adds content to the game.  Players can chose to not get close.

But my apologies, I missed your previous post about removing chat options for the greater good of the community.  I had thought that international chat was removed because of toxic words from some players.  I  miss having international chat in OW and always thought that ignore can solve toxic words and still allow some helpful conversation.  Although I haven't figured out how to ignore in combat

And to Thonys: I didn't intend to drag your thread off topic, but think that the use of flags and pendants between ships could have been used to identify each other.  Communication of some form could have been an important part of ID.  I'm offering an alternative to your suggestion: we should leave player ID as is and introduce a hail between enemy players.

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This focus on clan-based stuff has turned the server into what it is.....

The fact is all nations are at war.   

This separation of the server into the “cool kids club” and “others” is toxic and has led to more “I thought we had an agreement!” moments than I can remember.  

These clan-based mechanics have proved to be a failure, IMO. Get rid of em.  

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Game has one simple rule: Red = enemy +  Green = Friend.

The advantages of the system without names are ...

  • that everyone red is an enemy
  • leads to incidents ( fuelling rvr/pvp)
  • reduces fear of tagging because names can scare
  • more thrill by not knowing who
  • Alts get targeted

 

Edited by z4ys
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1 hour ago, Thonys said:

comms in OW should be closed for many reasons, and stay that way. 

There is no arguing with that.that was a good decision. in the battle the option is there to close the chat, the topic  is not about communication, or conversation 

It was a terrible decision.

Removal of the ability to communicate on the open ocean without having to pop a battle instance was inane, driven by players of a certain style, and in so many ways is indicative of the the kinds of changes that serves to hurt the overall player base in the service a the very few who are voicing their support here.

Pure and simple, it’s a time waster that serves no purpose. The argument that it increases PvP because it removes the fear factor is countered by the anecdotes of new players who say they’re less likely to tag nameless ships because it might be some PvP badass that they have no chance against. (So they’ll just wait until they have overwhelming numbers and gank the everloving shit out of them instead of try out that 1v1, etc. etc.)

In other words, it fuels the kind of “bad” PvP that the loudest among you seem to desire. And it does so while removing sense of community, fluidity in international communication and takes away player choice and options for player-driven content. @Vernon Merrill you seem to denounce “clan” driven gameplay but how are current mechanics any different now than before, with the sole exception of being able to protect port battles from alt abuse through friendly clan lists? Quit bagging on clans and RvR if you don’t participate, content is content, just like with player to player communication on the OW. If you choose to ignore it for your own play style, that’s great. Don’t take it away from others.

The option to hail and open communication (ala signaling) with a ship on the OW is just better gameplay. I’d be happier if you couldn’t tell what nation or rank a ship was at all until hailing/communication was opened and agreed to, but make it a choice, and make it something that happens without the overhead of having to jump into a battle instance. If I want my enemies to know who I am and what flag I sail under, hoping that fear causes them to run, then that should be my choice and I’ll have hailing checked open all the time.

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It is Devs that design the game. Always remember that. You see to have forgotten that small detail.

We all give input, they alone decide where to go. Saying they don't have ideas is reductive, and if they want to reverse and show the names again, all good.

There's no "group of players" that decide how game design should go. Only GL does that :P 

Let's get back to our own places as players, not game designers, right buddy ? Thanks a ton.

And yes, no names gave way to way way more ow battles. Players take way more chances.

I fought people i never ever fought before, because i ran or they ran.

 

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@Wraith....   I can have an opinion regarding RvR just like you can have opinions regarding OW hunting.  I've done plenty of RvR, thanks.

Who's REALLY taking it away from others?  How many PB's has VCO done in the past month?  How many included new players that are interested in expanding their nation's borders?

All these mechanics some people clamor for merely serve to lessen to player pool for each activity.

PB's only for "friends"

OW battles never against "friends"

The best ships only built for "friends"

And then we wonder why new player have a hard time.

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1 hour ago, Wraith said:

The argument that it increases PvP because it removes the fear factor is countered by the anecdotes of new players who say they’re less likely to tag nameless ships because it might be some PvP badass that they have no chance against. 

So ganks are less and/or none existing furthermore tags happen more often when names are shown? Because that would be the invert claim.

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3 minutes ago, z4ys said:

So ganks are less and/or none existing furthermore tags happen more often when names are shown? Because that would be the invert claim.

I don't know what you're saying here... the anecdotes I've heard is that new and less experience players are less likely to engage in 1v1 because they don't know who they might be fighting.  If they see a lone pirate Endymion cruising outside their safe zone they might cower in fear and not come out if they don't know who it is because it could be someone elite, like Privateer or Storm Crow... on the other hand, if they see that it's that newb Wraith or some other VCO scrub then boom, they get their courage up and sail out to fight me 1 or 2 v 1 instead of waiting to muster an overwhelming gank fleet.

My comment about what I'd prefer, re. being able to hide our nation in addition to our identity/rank, etc. up until nearing tagging distance (which could include the ability or perks to run false flags, etc.) would be interesting content as well. But I still think that you should be able to signal/hail ships outside that tagging distance to open up a chat with any ship regardless of nation voluntarily, without having to tag them just to find out that you don't want to fight them, for whatever reason (they're a noob, an alt, a friend, an allied clan, etc., etc.) because all that is is a waste of everyone's time.

 

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3 hours ago, z4ys said:

reduces fear of tagging because names can scare

The players who would've ran away from a scary name now just run away always.  This was a failed experiment.

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57 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I don't know what you're saying here... the anecdotes I've heard is that new and less experience players are less likely to engage in 1v1 because they don't know who they might be fighting.  If they see a lone pirate Endymion cruising outside their safe zone they might cower in fear and not come out if they don't know who it is because it could be someone elite, like Privateer or Storm Crow... on the other hand, if they see that it's that newb Wraith or some other VCO scrub then boom, they get their courage up and sail out to fight me 1 or 2 v 1 instead of waiting to muster an overwhelming gank fleet.

My comment about what I'd prefer, re. being able to hide our nation in addition to our identity/rank, etc. up until nearing tagging distance (which could include the ability or perks to run false flags, etc.) would be interesting content as well. But I still think that you should be able to signal/hail ships outside that tagging distance to open up a chat with any ship regardless of nation voluntarily, without having to tag them just to find out that you don't want to fight them, for whatever reason (they're a noob, an alt, a friend, an allied clan, etc., etc.) because all that is is a waste of everyone's time.

 

You forget that new players don't even know any vet name. So what's the difference for them? True for vets it makes a difference. Moscalb tagged reverse both decided not to fight that's there choice. But at least they ended in a battle. No names increases chance that a battle will happen. Maybe one of them thinks a let's engage. That's more likely as with names. Same happened with pada + me (DE) vs foxxe and a friend (GB). With names no tag no fight would have happened.

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14 minutes ago, z4ys said:

You forget that new players don't even know any vet name. So what's the difference for them? True for vets it makes a difference. Moscalb tagged reverse both decided not to fight that's there choice. But at least they ended in a battle. No names increases chance that a battle will happen. Maybe one of them thinks a let's engage. That's more likely as with names. Same happened with pada + me (DE) vs foxxe and a friend (GB). With names no tag no fight would have happened.

Again, this is your problem not the game's. What about your personality or psychology keeps you from fighting "friends?" With all of Heth's talk about, "there are no friends and allies, only green and red," you'd think that you would just out and out ignore the names and tag on sight... Why do you need some psychological crutch of not knowing in order to pop open a battle instance?  

Perhaps if you read my suggestion more closely, and understood that the name/rank/clan information could be voluntary, as long as communication lines could be open on the OW, that would change your mind. All other mechanics and player psychology vs. PvP arguments aside, it's just a plain waste of time and server resources to have to pop open a battle instance just to find out you don't want to fight or to have to have a chat with a player.

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