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We want outlaw battles!


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Just now, John Cavanaugh said:

I remember when NSANE made dedicated attempts to drive all pirates they considered care bears out of the faction, bragged of this in nation chat, and ganked noobs until they quit. I remember dumping their discord chat logs into global for all to see. This mechanic was used to farm new players, and to harass those not well liked enough, or without clans to support them. As enjoyable as outlaw mechanics are, and as fun as clan wars was in pirate nation, protections must exist for the new player and the casual gamer. Disabling outlaw tags within the reinforcement zone and for especially low ranked players would essentially fix this IMO

The general opinion from players is there should be no reinforcement zones and no capital for pirates. This does 2 things: takes away all feelings of safety (because outlaws are never safe) and (more importantly) distributes the pirate population across the game map, instead of focusing everyone in one place. 

Pirates should not be a starting faction that new players join to learn the game imo. You should have to perform an action in game to turn into a pirate (it could be as easy as sailing to a pirate port and clicking "leave current nation and join pirates"). There are 10 other nations in the game that are better suited for new players. After all, most pirates in real life began their careers as privateers for their home nation. 

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Just now, Capn Rocko said:

The general opinion from players

Where did that fact come from?  There is a prevailing opinion on this forum about that, but I don't think we speak for all players here.  The majority on the forum are experienced players who have a very distinct bias towards their own ideas.  I wouldn't presume to speak for the whole community.  Many of the players in the Pirate nation are casuals or new players who like to sail under the Jolly Roger.  They are very happy with their 'Pirate Nation".  I personally think it might be a fun experiment (I wasn't here for the last one), but I guarantee that it would hurt a large percentage of players who are currently Pirate.  Maybe this is something that could be optional, similar to the old smuggler flag. 

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9 minutes ago, Capn Rocko said:

The general opinion from players is there should be no reinforcement zones and no capital for pirates. This does 2 things: takes away all feelings of safety (because outlaws are never safe) and (more importantly) distributes the pirate population across the game map, instead of focusing everyone in one place. 

Pirates should not be a starting faction that new players join to learn the game imo. You should have to perform an action in game to turn into a pirate (it could be as easy as sailing to a pirate port and clicking "leave current nation and join pirates"). There are 10 other nations in the game that are better suited for new players. After all, most pirates in real life began their careers as privateers for their home nation. 

1) Action to turn into pirate existed at beginning of OW. It failed spectacularly and was removed, as many new players became confused as to how they had become pirate, and how to leave pirates. Without a clearly defined set of parameters, and a way to return to your initial country, this idea is simply doomed from its conception.

2) Whether or not a faction is best suited to new players is utterly irrelevant. A new player is able, and has always been able, to select pirates at character creation. For many this has worked out fine, for others not so much. But it is the choice of the player. as @Angus MacDuff has said, many simply wish to fly the black, and many of these are new players. You have no right to impose upon them your own mental model of what the game should be.

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Just now, Angus MacDuff said:

Where did that fact come from?  There is a prevailing opinion on this forum about that, but I don't think we speak for all players here.  The majority on the forum are experienced players who have a very distinct bias towards their own ideas.  I wouldn't presume to speak for the whole community.  Many of the players in the Pirate nation are casuals or new players who like to sail under the Jolly Roger.  They are very happy with their 'Pirate Nation".  I personally think it might be a fun experiment (I wasn't here for the last one), but I guarantee that it would hurt a large percentage of players who are currently Pirate.  Maybe this is something that could be optional, similar to the old smuggler flag. 

I did not mean the opinion of "all players". I meant the general opinion of those who are suggesting that outlaw battles should return. I have followed the outlaw discussion closely (there is a new thread that pops up every few months about outlaw battles) and most supporters suggest the same changes with minor differences.  

The general opinion of all pirates is all over the place. Some want pirates to only sail small ships, some want no RvR, some want extra perks. The truth is no matter what is decided (even doing nothing) there is no way everyone will be happy. 

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20 hours ago, Barbancourt said:

Il n'y a pas de "zones de sécurité". Il y a de minuscules zones de renforcement qui ne veulent plus rien dire. Il y a un an, lorsque les batailles de hors-la-loi étaient monnaie courante, les Pirates naviguaient près de nos ports et disparaissaient dans les batailles de hors-la-loi quand ils le souhaitaient. Ensuite, ils utiliseraient l’augmentation invisible de la vitesse en quittant l’instance de bataille pour lancer une attaque. S'ils n'aimaient pas le résultat, ils disparaîtraient dans une autre bataille hors la loi. 

Bonjour,

Je te cité : "zones de renforcement qui ne veulent plus rien dire".  Je trouve que c'est un peu fort. 

Exemple: désolé, je ne peux t'offrir que ma parole. Dimanche, j'ai été pris en chasse par 2 bellona anglais du côté de Vieux-port. A deux, ils m'ont rattrapé (je ne sais pas comment). 

Ils me tag en zone de renforcement. Aussitôt, 4 bellona français apparaissent. Les deux anglais se sauvent, et moi j'abrite mon bellona.

 

Cordialement, La Fayette.

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27 minutes ago, Capn Rocko said:

The general opinion from players is there should be no reinforcement zones and no capital for pirates.

8 minutes ago, Capn Rocko said:

I did not mean the opinion of "all players". I meant the general opinion of those who are suggesting that outlaw battles should return.

Vague appeal to authority, then moving of goal posts. This is your opinion, do not deflect by claiming to be the mouthpiece of the greater community.

 

Edit:

Is this the sort of poster you're talking about?

By which I mean the sort who harassed new players until they quit the game, bragged of doing so, and demanded that other players conform to his own vision of what their gameplay should resemble?

Edited by John Cavanaugh
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6 minutes ago, John Cavanaugh said:

2) Whether or not a faction is best suited to new players is utterly irrelevant. A new player is able, and has always been able, to select pirates at character creation. For many this has worked out fine, for others not so much. But it is the choice of the player. as @Angus MacDuff has said, many simply wish to fly the black, and many of these are new players. You have no right to impose upon them your own mental model of what the game should be.

If new players want to be pirates that's fine, but they should be fully aware of what they are getting themselves into. Outlaws with safe zones added a lot of confusion on that part. 

I'm not imposing my opinion on new players. I am just suggesting something many players want and for it to be implemented with as little exploits as possible. 

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5 minutes ago, John Cavanaugh said:

Vague appeal to authority, then moving of goal posts. This is your opinion, do not deflect by claiming to be the mouthpiece of the greater community.

 

Go read every outlaw thread in the last 1.5 years and summarize the main arguements for the supporters. That is all I have tried to do. I'm sure I could have done a better job but this thread was created by a moderator based on some offhand comment I made in another post.

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2 minutes ago, Capn Rocko said:

I am just suggesting something many players want and for it to be implemented with as little exploits as possible

I agree that it's an interesting concept and I would enjoy testing it also.  The issue would be the existing players who have set themselves up as Pirates in a more "care bear" existence.  Simply turning the Pirate nation into something else would be very harsh on those players.  You would almost have to introduce another faction who are "Outlaw".  Yes, I also agree that we already have too many nations already, but how do you bring in something like this without hurting a lot of established players?  A new faction?  A special flag? 

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3 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

I agree that it's an interesting concept and I would enjoy testing it also.  The issue would be the existing players who have set themselves up as Pirates in a more "care bear" existence.  Simply turning the Pirate nation into something else would be very harsh on those players.  You would almost have to introduce another faction who are "Outlaw".  Yes, I also agree that we already have too many nations already, but how do you bring in something like this without hurting a lot of established players?  A new faction?  A special flag? 

Pirate Republic of Nassau was mentioned by the developers as a possibility before outlaws were added last time. It probably would have solved a lot of issues. If not, a free nation change redeemable would go a long way for those that don't have DLC. 

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Reinforcement zones should remain, they are essential for new players and 'outlaw' tags should not be allowed inside them. That should be a given. The fact is, many new players want to be Pirate, it's understandable they want to do that, they don't listen to warnings and play pirates anyway (we know that now) and last time new players got slaughtered every time they popped their heads out of MT, I wouldn't want to return to that. (It's good that we have dickheads in the game, so we can test what they do).

A new 'outlaw' faction? It would be a very powerful and over populated faction, they would brawl with each other one day and then the next get together and take every port on the map I think. Any one nation that allowed outlaw battles I would instantly join. Personally I've never understood the whole green on green concept full stop. I am mystified as to why you can't just shoot who you like in any battle, but that's for another thread I think.

But protecting new players form just being easy prey for bored PvPers is paramount imo.

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4 minutes ago, Hullabaloo 'The Thief' said:

Les zones de renforcement doivent rester, elles sont essentielles pour les nouveaux joueurs et les tags «hors-la-loi» ne doivent pas être autorisés à l'intérieur. Cela devrait être une donnée. Le fait est que beaucoup de nouveaux joueurs veulent être pirate, il est compréhensible qu'ils veuillent faire cela, ils n'écoutent pas les avertissements et ne jouent pas aux pirates (nous le savons maintenant) et la dernière fois, de nouveaux joueurs se sont fait massacrer chaque fois qu'ils ont sauté la tête. hors de MT, je ne voudrais pas revenir à cela. (C'est bien que nous ayons des têtes de dick dans le jeu afin de pouvoir tester ce qu'ils font).

Une nouvelle faction "hors la loi"? Ce serait une faction très puissante et surpeuplée, ils se bagarreraient un jour et le lendemain se réuniraient et prendraient tous les ports sur la carte, je pense. Toute nation qui aurait permis des batailles hors-la-loi me rejoindrait instantanément. Personnellement, je n’ai jamais compris l’ensemble du concept vert sur vert. Je ne comprends pas pourquoi vous ne pouvez pas tirer sur qui vous aimez dans n'importe quelle bataille, mais c'est pour un autre fil, je pense.

Mais protéger les nouveaux joueurs, étant simplement une proie facile pour les joueurs PvP ennuyés, est primordial.

Bonjour,

Je partage complètement cette brillante analyse. C'est plein de bon sens et va dans le sens de ce jeu.

Cordialement, La Fayette

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6 minutes ago, Hullabaloo 'The Thief' said:

Reinforcement zones should remain, they are essential for new players and 'outlaw' tags should not be allowed inside them. That should be a given. The fact is, many new players want to be Pirate, it's understandable they want to do that, they don't listen to warnings and play pirates anyway (we know that now) and last time new players got slaughtered every time they popped their heads out of MT, I wouldn't want to return to that. (It's good that we have dickheads in the game, so we can test what they do).

A new 'outlaw' faction? It would be a very powerful and over populated faction, they would brawl with each other one day and then the next get together and take every port on the map I think. Any one nation that allowed outlaw battles I would instantly join. Personally I've never understood the whole green on green concept full stop. I am mystified as to why you can't just shoot who you like in any battle, but that's for another thread I think.

But protecting new players form just being easy prey for bored PvPers is paramount imo.

If reinforcement zones remain, then I agree no outlaw battles should be allowed in them. I am also for outlaw battles for all nations.. I am just suggesting for pirates since it seems more realistic in the sense that it is a feature that was already approved by the development team and implemented in the past. 

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I like the idea of pirates being nations unto themselves, pirate clans attacking each other and other nations. To stop the rats turning into a zerg, limit it so rat clans can only get 1 port or something. The nations being the same mechanics wise it really a bummer. The only reason to move nations is to change community and you'd be more like to sell the forged papers DLC if there was something unique about each nation or at least one that was set apart with special mechanics.

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7 hours ago, admin said:

Outlaw battles were great. But just like flags or other mechanics they were abused to death turning them into poison to other mechanics. 
For example: pirates used outlaw battle mechanics to attack each other to deny ability to people who were chasing them to tag them.

This bellow...

7 hours ago, Wraith said:

But if they're open to all, and they stay open for a reasonable amount of time, allowing the chasing team to jump in and brawl it out, then this isn't a problem, no? In fact it's just an invitation to a fight, open to all with positional joins, it's basically players saying, "Let's do this." It could literally be an on-demand, PvP zone battle.

Literally with the current RoE and the timer changes you've smartly implemented in the past, the only additional change that would be needed to fix Outlaw Battles would be to make it so they can't be started inside safe/reinforcement zones.

Yes, outlaw battles should return, but remain open for all to join, plus some changes. But somehow it has to be fixed so that the rat side you join, those rats cannot do damage against the you. But what will stop them from escaping and returning to the battle on the rat side with that account or their multitude of alts?

6 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

That was not the problem as @Wraith mention you can join at any time.  The ABUSE came when National would bring out Pirate alts, tag other pirates and jump into the open battles with there National fleets.  A lot of time doing this in the green zone around Mort since Pirates could tag each other in those zones.  It wasn't pirates that abused it it was the other players. 

The other flaw to your pirate taging each other to avoid fights.  FFA was positional join.  They couldn't escape if you just pop in and than tell every one where they are and have them positionally join.  Believe me know we loved this factor as it allowed us to better get back at these trouble makers when we could.

@Sir Texas Sir Purhaps that might have happened, but I know for a fact that rats abused it a hell of a lot. I personally know that often rats would sail in gank fleets, but if were ever outnumbered they would tag each other to hide from us until they would have a shitton more rats show up to gain the number advantage yet again.

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3 hours ago, van der Decken said:

This bellow...

Yes, outlaw battles should return, but remain open for all to join, plus some changes. But somehow it has to be fixed so that the rat side you join, those rats cannot do damage against the you. But what will stop them from escaping and returning to the battle on the rat side with that account or their multitude of alts?

@Sir Texas Sir Purhaps that might have happened, but I know for a fact that rats abused it a hell of a lot. I personally know that often rats would sail in gank fleets, but if were ever outnumbered they would tag each other to hide from us until they would have a shitton more rats show up to gain the number advantage yet again.

As @Wraith mention all you have to do is join the fight and it's positional join.  We wold do that to bring it into a fight on our terms.  Near the end of Global some of the GB/US started to get smart and actually join these fights and found out they could trap us and actually started to win some of the fights.   The biggest problem with the US/GB/DUTCH back than was that they would be to chicken shit to join the fights and actually FIGHT.   That and bring frigates to a SOL fight half the time didn't help them either.  You do understand that in half those fights you weren't figthting 20-25 guys.  I never lied back than when I said you where only fighting 15-20 or later 10-15 guys.  We where so multi boxing in half those battles that if you ever figured out who's alts was who ya'll could of used it against us.  Hell half the port battles Simmon would go AFK to give his kid a bath....lol.

Again I think like back than a lot of folks just don't understand FFA fights and how they work.   

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  • 5 months later...
On 12/12/2018 at 3:34 PM, Sir Texas Sir said:

That was not the problem as  wraith mention you can join at any time.  The ABUSE came when National would bring out Pirate alts, tag other pirates and jump into the open battles with there National fleets.  A lot of time doing this in the green zone around Mort since Pirates could tag each other in those zones.  It wasn't pirates that abused it it was the other players.

Back to this Topic At admin 🤩 You removed the R zone, only capital zone is left which means this mechanic cant be abused :D ADD IT PLEASEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Bring it back ONLY if other nations can join either rat side. It was annoying af to be chasing rats only to see them tag each other preventing any national from joining the battle. Then we'd see another group of rats and get the tag on them, then the other rats who tagged each other all leave their battle and gang rape the nationals that finally tagged the other rat fleet.

Edited by van der Decken
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16 minutes ago, van der Decken said:

Bring it back ONLY if other nations can join either rat side. It was annoying af to be chasing rats only to see them tag each other preventing any national from joining the battle. Then we'd see another group of rats and get the tag on them, then the other rats who tagged each other all leave their battle and gang rape the nationals that finally tagged the other rat fleet.

That is not how it worked at all. Anyone could join they were FFA battles

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35 minutes ago, van der Decken said:

Bring it back ONLY if other nations can join either rat side. It was annoying af to be chasing rats only to see them tag each other preventing any national from joining the battle. Then we'd see another group of rats and get the tag on them, then the other rats who tagged each other all leave their battle and gang rape the nationals that finally tagged the other rat fleet.

As said, you didnt choose "side" you joined, everyone was Free to kill and it wasnt join circles as you know it. The join circle were same as hostility join circle/capital battle join circle. So if you wanted to "abuse" it by attacking pirate on pirate, the Hunter could join wherever they want so people would get hello kittyed if they tried to "green on green" each other. 

There is literally no possibility to abuse the mechanic any more without the Reinforcement zone

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