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The time has come to make pirates hardcore choice.


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6 minutes ago, RedNeckMilkMan said:

Pirates shouldn't start with anything (like the 3 hardcore nations). Pirates are just as easy as any other nation. This should not be the case.

Obviously you just hate the pirates..  lol we have a tiny island, I don't think you know how small that island is.  It's approx 20k by 20k.  It's a pirate island...  in an age of sail game... a tiny pirate island... i don't think we are getting a huge leg up on anything lol.  Russia and Prussia don't get capitals because there never were capitals for those countries in the area.  Pirates definitely had capitals in the area historically.

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22 minutes ago, Hemp Amore said:

Obviously you just hate the pirates..  lol we have a tiny island, I don't think you know how small that island is.  It's approx 20k by 20k.  It's a pirate island...  in an age of sail game... a tiny pirate island... i don't think we are getting a huge leg up on anything lol.  Russia and Prussia don't get capitals because there never were capitals for those countries in the area.  Pirates definitely had capitals in the area historically.

You have a centralized location near the brits (most populous nation) and Tortue (most populous freeport). You are perfectly placed to dominate the shallows, eastern Cuba, and the north of Hispaniola. The Grand Turk area is perfect for ship building. You have live oak and Teak 10 seconds from your capital. And you have a safe zone in the middle of one of the biggest pvp hot zones/trade routes The size of the island is irrelevant. Fort Royal island is the same as Port Morant island.

Edited by RedNeckMilkMan
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Is the issue one of conflicting points of view?

1) Pirates attract new players/is new player friendly and from a game population perspective its prudent to keep it this way

2) Pirates should be pirates. Living outside the law should be more difficult... insert chosen nerf here

If the starting difficulty of any nation is known upon nation selection and we're transparent about the pros and cons of each you will naturally see new players drift towards "easier" starting nations and those who want bragging rights drift towards nations whose starting criteria are more difficult.

The OP suggestion of making pirates more hardcore by leveraging existing functionality seems right to me. Its a step in the right direction in any case and it feels like this would be "righting a wrong with regard to starting config"  I'd go further and limit to 3rd rate max but I'm sure pirate nerfs have been discussed galore elsewhere :)

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i dont like the fact that you do not like outlaw battles hethwill. The best PVP i had was stealing from other pirates around capitals. We had hunting territory's. EXILE fought and drove other pirates from Belize and defended our flock. I used to love hunting pirates in our waters to keep the brits safe. We were very carefull about overganking brits to keep stable pvp and it worked for a good while. Fighting for hunting grounds is the best thing that I have ever done in my 4000 hours gameplay. 

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1 hour ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Right... 

Anything wrong with making them... simply Impossible/Hardcore without any further development ? Just a mode switch. Nothing else.

Nothing wrong with that, except we already tried it before and it didn't change things. Changing label doesn't change the gameplay, or type of people who join.

It's a harmless change however, no point in opposing it.

On the other hand I proposed some simple changes which may or may not change gameplay when being a pirate. I didn't think them through and I typed them while waiting on traffic lights. I don't know whether they're good or bad. Since planning this game is not my job though, it's also nothing wrong with me suggesting such things - just like everyone else does :) 

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I think Pirates should be what they actually were, Mostly they were men who did not care for the status quo, they valued their independence, yet could and did work together as the occasion demanded, often operating from bays or coves but able and willing to sell their illicit gains in Nassau and Port Royale to the extent, that, for a while, those ports were almost no go zones! No Pirate cared about the flag a ship wore, British, French, Spanish, or American, they were merely a source of income for them.   

Life was harsher for those of the brethren of the sea, they had their own code of honour which was ruthlessly enforced, equal to the enforcement of the Articles of War in all navy's of the day, duelling  and double crossing was rife, just as it was in 'civilised society', Indeed, the real difference was every sail was a threat to them, sometimes even their own, every sail was an opportunity to make money, the money they made was, of course, free of any form of taxation as they they owed no allegiance to any nation, which is why they could not be permitted to successfully hold territory,

They lived outside of the law, outside of what was deemed civilised, when caught, they could expect little by way of mercy, the only way to escape the hangman was to be female and with child  as Anne Bonney and Mary Reade did, Mary Reade died in prison but Anne Bonney simply disappeared without trace she was never hanged, nor, is there any record of her death in prison, or, seek amnesty before you were caught as many did for a brief time. 

The terms of living as a Pirate does not make one hardcore or softcore, it makes you a Pirate, and, to be a Pirate, the game should permit you to live and act as such. 

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12 hours ago, rediii said:

because everyone wants to be a fancy pirate, which is why pirates are the 2nd modt populated nation. 

Right, but if being a Pirate was a punishing experience, and a severely limited one without the help of a sizeable clan, the numbers would reflect that. Currently, being a pirate gives basically no disadvantages, other than the borderline-fanatical hatred it seems to inspire among players of other nations, so of course it's a popular choice. Everyone always wants to be a Jedi/Super Saiyan/pirate/etc, unless you have game mechanics in place that make that difficult or out of the reach of new players.

The game could go out of its way to warn you about how terrible and risky being a pirate is, and even have a rank requirement of some kind (or at least require someone finish the final exam tutorial under a certain limit, or something along those lines) to make sure that only people with the proper attitude and minimum skill will even try it.

7 hours ago, Liq said:

I feel like this is the 4315th time this has been brought up

And dont really see it happening, because of what redii said.

Average joe will be very disappointed he cant be a "nasty pirate" anymore and do his couple daily SoL missions in safezones anymore.

Pretty sure GameLabs is aware of that. 

Only solution I see is having 2 different kind of Pirates. True "i dont give a shit" pirates, and, Hello Kitty Pirates. But adding another nation is probably not exactly what is going to help Todays player count / game Experience in terms of action going on

Popular suggestions are popular :)

I'm not sure who these "average joes" are. When I play, I see 100-300 people online, mostly dedicated regulars, and the few "new" players seem to pick the nation they originate from, if possible. I say "new" because you never know which players are actually "new" and which are alts, unless they join your clan and you get to know them over teamspeak.

In my admittedly limited experience, most people who join the pirate nation on their own (i.e. they didn't leave as part of a clan flipping nations) are former victims of pirates, not people who have any particular interest in the pirate aesthetic. Such players would do fine in any nation as long as they have an active clan to play with, and many of them might even enjoy playing a more "hardcore" (God, I hate that word) experience.

 

 

I agree that a 2nd "outlaw" nation wouldn't be helpful, but I disagree with the idea that it would at all be necessary. For all the reasons to get fed up with this game and leave, I have a hard time seeing the jolly roger as a hill for anyone to die on. Any pirate players are welcome to come to this thread and prove me wrong, though.

Edited by greybuscat
Clarified the post slightly
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For my own, ATM, playin' true piracy, i dont need any extra mechanics, except Pirate Den, last reason i keep Mortimer as outpost... Only playin' from freetowns. RvR, i don't care; SoL and Fregates, i don't sail 'em.

In my dreams, Pyrates only sails 7/6th rates and got only 8/10 hidden ports where they can dock.

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14 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

i dont like the fact that you do not like outlaw battles hethwill. The best PVP i had was stealing from other pirates around capitals. We had hunting territory's. EXILE fought and drove other pirates from Belize and defended our flock. I used to love hunting pirates in our waters to keep the brits safe. We were very carefull about overganking brits to keep stable pvp and it worked for a good while. Fighting for hunting grounds is the best thing that I have ever done in my 4000 hours gameplay. 

I get you. I don't like other guys forcefully making other fellows eat their salt. That's all outlaw battles did. Sorry bud, can't trust humans.

 

Suggestion is all about making Pirate faction equal to Russian Empire/Commonwealth/Kingdom of Prussia. That is all. No fame, no crazy stunts.

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Just now, vazco said:

They were marked as impossible for I think more than a year - certainly in 2016. It didn't change who joined them.

You think :) . Okay.

Let's recall when Impossible missions without a Capital were introduced. I am sure you remember. Kingdom of Prussia, Russian Empire and Commonwealth of Poland-Lithuania. That's when Impossible nations showed up :) 

Back then every nation had a Capital, no zones, there were no Impossible/Hardcore nations.

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1 hour ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

I get you. I don't like other guys forcefully making other fellows eat their salt. That's all outlaw battles did. Sorry bud, can't trust humans

Is that what being a pirate is about? Sure they had rules etc but at the end of the day they were criminals. 

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I would take it one step further and make all nations "impossible" / hardcore, except for GB, France, Spain and US. Those 4 should get 1 uncapturable port with a small safe zone that is patrolled by aggressive elite NPCs. That's still 4 nations with a zone for pussies filthy lubbers and new players to be almost completely safe from PvP on the war server with a port that can not be taken from them.

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Just now, HachiRoku said:

Is that what being a pirate is about? Sure they had rules etc but at the end of the day they were criminals. 

My suggestion has nothing to do what they were ( we could go to History board ) :)  Has only to do with making them equal to the 3 hardcore/impossible nations. Simple. Nothing fancy.

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7 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

My suggestion has nothing to do what they were ( we could go to History board ) :)  Has only to do with making them equal to the 3 hardcore/impossible nations. Simple. Nothing fancy.

Except the 3 nations are not hardcore. They are carebears like every one else. The only difference is that they the don't pve in areas that are full of hunters.  Look at the PVE kills the russians and Prussians have. Safezones are for idiots that have the iq of goats. 

In my view hardcore is not knowing who your friends are. If you want to take their ports from them they will quit the game anyway. Outlaw battles won't make it worse. Pirates are the biggest carebear nation in the game. The have 0 presence in open sea pvp unless you count getting ganked at mt. Ever since safezones were added the true pirate raiders that sailed 7th-5th rates have quit. The devs ruined the pirate gameplay or at least the tiny bit they had. AI assisting players is the biggest joke in the history of this game. It could be done way better but I have explained that in detail often. 

I think the 2 of us have very different views of what hardcore means. 

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Just now, HachiRoku said:

Take their lineships and make the sail frigates and smaller. Give them outlaw battles take their ports. Take everything from them and give them the one advantage of safe zones not working against pirates. That would be hardcore. 

Right... but that's not how the other Impossible nations work. All I suggest is Pirates to be like the other Impossible nations. No more no less :) 

( I have plenty of posts about pyracy and how they should be, this is not it. )

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1 hour ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Back then every nation had a Capital, no zones, there were no Impossible/Hardcore nations.

Sure. Back then also pirates were the only nation that were marked as "extra hard" or similar, an equivalent of today's "impossible". Still, it didn't change who joined it.

Impossible nations don't have issues surviving as well, there was not one case where a nation would be wiped out, even when Prussia or Commonwealth didn't have players.

Your suggestion is harmless at this point in time and I don't see a reason to not to implement it. It probably won't change much in any direction. In the future, once many noobs join pirates just to have a cool flag, if someone wipes them out, many of them will quit. That's too far in the future and too unpredictable for me to care though.

Edited by vazco
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It is easy.

You can not select Pirates when you start the game. You need some rank, final exam completed, you can change to pirates knowing the consequences. You will have brief explanation about Pirate nation before changing nation.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Right... but that's not how the other Impossible nations work. All I suggest is Pirates to be like the other Impossible nations. No more no less :) 

( I have plenty of posts about pyracy and how they should be, this is not it. )

Tell me how impossible nations work? There is nothing remotely difficult about them. 

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