Christian VII - make her craftable

[Anolytic]

The Christian VII has now been in-game for a couple of weeks. But in finite supply and only available to a lucky/dedicated few who grinded on the testbed. Already a lot of those ships that were redeemed by players have been sunk, reducing the finite number even more. And the players who still have theirs intact are in large part those who were too careful to even redeem theirs, let alone sail into dangerous waters.

A ship that is impossible to replace becomes so rare in many players’ minds that they don’t even take it out of the wrapper (redeem it). Or they sell it, because they are too afraid they’ll get ganked and loose it for nothing. 

 

This reluctance to use the ship in open sea means that despite being a new ship, it doesn’t get tested a whole lot. I am sure devs put it through extensive tests before releasing it, but for one thing I was really looking forward to seeing it take part in and test its performance in PBs. Let alone the fact that there are no Port Battles anymore, but it seems beyond hope that the Christian will get a proper round of tests in PBs for as long as it is irreplaceable. 

 

I know that developers have talked about keeping the Christian a rare ship, even toyed with the idea of making the crafting permit a DLC.

 

In my opinion the Christian is perhaps the most beautiful ship in the game now, and it should be front and center in the world, not hidden away and exclusive. Hard to attain, like any lineship, yes. But not limited. 

 

Moreover, this ship was a Community Voted ship. I joined this forum just in time to vote for it in the second round I think, and the prospect of sailing this particular ship in-game was at least 30% of my reason for buying the game in the first place. And I have felt each day of waiting since I started playing until I finally got my hands on it. 

 

I am just happy that I got my 3 redeemable ones, and I even bought a couple more, but I would argue that many players may feel, that by voting in the Community Vote, and waiting all this time for the ship to make it into the game, they are somehow entitled to it. That it should be available to all through the same means of crafting that most other ships are. That this was a ship we were asked if we wanted in the game, and when we voted yes, we were promised it would come to the game. And yes, devs have complied, but is it just a little bit unmusical that for players who voted for the ship, campaigned for the voting, maybe bought the game because of all the talk of this particular ship back then, there is another hurdle to actually sail it? Shouldn’t this ship, of all, be available equally to everybody.

 

To me this ship was, indirectly, a major part of the promotion of the game. 

 

And devs are right to be particularly proud of this ship model.

 

This ship should, going forward, be used prominently to promote the game. Not only did devs deliver beyond imagining on a community selected ship. The ship in all its details and beauty is a prime example of what you can see and sail when they buy this game. This ship alone could sell a lot more copies of Naval Action.

I would simultaneously warn against the idea I saw raised, of making her crafting permit a DLC. 

On 11/7/2018 at 4:25 PM, admin said:

On 11/7/2018 at 4:15 PM, OjK said:

@admin Maybe DLC for permit only?
 

hmm. its a good idea that does not disrupt crafting and just gives access to a blueprint. and maybe it should be a model for new imported ships . Another great thing with your proposal is that this can allow to make them capturable too - without any imported status

maybe its even a great idea.

This sounds like a neat idea, but keep in mind:

 

On 3/31/2015 at 12:44 PM, admin said:

1st and 2nd rates will not be premium ships. Those can only be crafted.

Max rate for a premium ship will be a 3rd rate (maybe 4th)

Making a DLC for the permit and not for the ship note, might not make her a premium ship by every standard, but you would have to anticipate that some people will argue that it does by theirs. And if you have to spend time explaining to customers instead of selling, that’s a bad deal.

It may be that I misinterpreted, and that DLC-for-permit, is not actually being considered for the Christian, but for any future DLC-ships of lower classes, but in that case a statement should be made to clarify this distinction.

EDIT: Clarification:

2 hours ago, admin said:

Christian being a 2nd rate cannot be a DLC

 

Edited November 30, 2018 by Anolytic
Edited part about DLC in light of clarification by admin

[Hethwill]

25 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Same thing with Diana and Constitution Classic. Great ships beautifully modeled that we cant enjoy.

And yes, I want to be able to build the classic, same as Diana, and I am sure it is coming with EconomyTwo.

At the moment our group strives to capture classics and dianas to satisfy the lack of crafting. We really like them. And we also put them in the line of fire, daily.

Kudos to the guys using them without fear of loss. That's what War server is about.

Crafting will come.

[Sento de Benimaclet]

37 minutes ago, Anolytic said:

@admin Maybe DLC for permit only?
 

No Thanks!!! If I have to spend extra money in the game that is by ships (Christian VII, Constitution Classic, paintings, etc), never by permits. Speaking clearly, I have no problem buying DLCs from ships that interest me for the game. Each one is free to buy them or not, but ships, nothing of permits.

[admin]

We have not yet decided what we are going to do with rare ships and how to maintain rarity if they are craft-able. 
Christian being a 2nd rate cannot be a DLC, there was an interesting proposal to change all new dlc ships to permits, but we did not have time to address this idea. 

[HachiRoku]

9 minutes ago, admin said:

We have not yet decided what we are going to do with rare ships and how to maintain rarity if they are craft-able. 
Christian being a 2nd rate cannot be a DLC, there was an interesting proposal to change all new dlc ships to permits, but we did not have time to address this idea. 

If you limit the permits to 2 for the Christian she would remain rare. Just make sure she is capable. 

[Sir Texas Sir]

13 minutes ago, admin said:

We have not yet decided what we are going to do with rare ships and how to maintain rarity if they are craft-able. 
Christian being a 2nd rate cannot be a DLC, there was an interesting proposal to change all new dlc ships to permits, but we did not have time to address this idea. 

I honesltly would prefer my DLC would be for the BP's of the ship.   Than maybe give a chance for some one to find the BP in game rarely with certain drops too.   Than have it so that I can redeem a permit once a day (so I can't craft more than that).  This way I can make my ships and have my crafters name on them and they are how I want them to be.  Using a note or redeemable just always bothers me as it feels more like I just made a store bought ship.

You could have them as rewards after doing certain missions chains or something.   I really hope that most ships including DLC's have other means to get them.   I mean I miss my dang gunboat and that wasn't even a special ship.  Honestly think that should be put in the normal crafting or in the Admiralty shop.

[z4ys]

4 minutes ago, rediii said:

DLC for permits? Doesn't that create something that can be sold for reals/dubs ingame?

 

Are all ships that are coming only DLC ships in future?

maybe dlc permits will not be tradable. But the ship has to be build yourself. (maybe BP requires even no crafting lvl)

DLC permits could be called Herc grant. A herc grant is used in a lvl 0 herc BP (with maybe reduced LH or mats) while for a normal Herc permit a player need crafting lvl 12 and normal amount of LH and mats.

Edited November 30, 2018 by z4ys

[LeBoiteux]

39 minutes ago, admin said:

there was an interesting proposal to change all new dlc ships to permits, but we did not have time to address this idea. 

I like the way DLC ships currently work, as it allows ppl with very short available time to play NA (PvP, PvE, trade).

Besides, I thought DLC ships were made to fund the implementation of new ships in game, that is expensive. I don't see how GL can make money with DLC permits. With one DLC permit, a crafter can build a ship for many ppl. Moreover, if those ships are capturable, lots of ppl will have a ship out of one single permit DLC. Thus, will those permits allow only the crafter to sail the built ship, making her an uncapturable/unsellable ship ? Will DLC permits be DLCs for crafters-sailors only ?

For the sake of in-game economy, limit the number of DLC ships a player can use each day (but not the number he can buy, meaning add in store as many DLC ships as possible).

[Sir Loorkon]

I think the DLC idea is fine with permits. A second rate by notes whould inflict economy to much. Make the Consti Clasic redeemable by permit once every 24 hours and the Christian by permit once a week. The new ships are to nice to be so rare. Or make them craftable and adjust rareness by doubloon price.

[Sento de Benimaclet]

Given that many people can not play a day no more than 2-3 hours, what is the problem in putting a Constitution Classic, the Christian VII or a Bellona in DLC ?. Who has a lot of playing time per day if you want to build them to do so, and others, at least give us the option of being able to get them in another way. We all win, the DLC generates income and we can choose those ships. It does not suppose a pay to win since the boats have the same characteristics that if you build them, more boats of that type in circulation, more combats with them, and less with hercules and requins. Which are already a plague! Why are the Hercules used so much or Le Requin?? because they are from DLC.

 

Edited November 30, 2018 by Sento de Benimaclet

[HachiRoku]

1 hour ago, rediii said:

DLC for permits? Doesn't that create something that can be sold for reals/dubs ingame?

 

Are all ships that are coming only DLC ships in future?

Why would it matter? If they want the ships to be rare they need to make them expensive. In my opinion a 2nd rate is worth 7,50 euro for ONE permit. It's not a great way to make money but a that price it will remain rare. Of course this is my oppinion and the devs might not like the idea of that. I just do not want any unlimited dlc ships anymore. I don't care what dlc costs as long as they are not op and don't break economy or logistics of rvr ship building. Even if someone was stupid enough to buy them to sell for in game gold the economy wouldn't care since the gold has to come from somewhere. 

[HachiRoku]

Just now, rediii said:

have fun balancing this without people saying its pay to win.

Lineships balancing looks like this atm:

Bellona OP 3rd, Buc OP 2nd, Ocean OP 1st

Then make the dlc ships 1% less competitive by design. I don't want any unlimited permit ships like the Herc or requin in game. I have still not bought those ships and will never as long as they are unlimited and have no need for crafting. 

Simple fact is that not making the OP is bad for business and nerfing them by design is better for the game. You tell them what's better

[Sento de Benimaclet]

36 minutes ago, rediii said:

omg no please dont destroy the eco completly.

OK. You worry about the eco, I about the game. When the time comes and people see that it is not enough for them to have a good ship because they can not play the same amount of hours as others, what do you think those people will do? Resign yourself to having at best an indefatigable? No, they will leave. But hey, keep thinking of the eco. 😉

[HachiRoku]

17 minutes ago, rediii said:

making every ship craftable BUT also optainable by DLC, I would be fine with that. (atleast of the new ones)

but there have to big realistic cooldowns on use of redeemables not this 1 day thing. Not for anything bigger than Herc...

Even the herc is to big imo.... There is no difference between a basic cutter and a herc. Someone that joins a pvp battle once a day in a basic cutter would be called griefer yet joining a battle once a day in a herc is not. Makes no sense to me. 

Making every ship craftable but also obtainable by dlc would not work unless you plan to make the mats cost much much more than other ships. People would cry and complain non stop. At the end of the day DLC is a way to make money and developers have a right to make money. In my opinion they should have waited until after release and just not released the ships to avoid complains like we see now. The thing is we both agree that we have gotten way more content than we were promised or what we payed for 3 years ago. 

[HachiRoku]

1 minute ago, Sento de Benimaclet said:

OK. You worry about the eco, I about the game. When the time comes and people see that it is not enough for them to have a good ship because they can not play the same amount of hours as others, what do you think those people will do? Resign yourself to having at best an indefatigable? No, they will leave. But hey, keep thinking of the eco. 😉

You must be out of your mind to propose the option to buy unlimited Constitution Classics, Christian VIIs or a Bellonas dlc. I WOULD DESTROY the game if they were not craftable. The game would die after 2 weeks. Its not a lobby game... If it were a lobby game the devs could release as many ships as they wanted as dlc and it wouldnt matter. 

[Sento de Benimaclet]

9 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

You must be out of your mind to propose the option to buy unlimited Constitution Classics, Christian VIIs or a Bellonas dlc.

No Hachi. I propose that these boats can be crafted but also purchased in DLC, depending on the hours that each player plays. And of unlimited I have not said anything. You could get a DLC Consti every 24 hours. One Bellona every 48 hours. One Christian VII every 72 hours. And no more than one at a time, as with the Hercules or Requiem. It's not about having a lot of these boats, but being able to enjoy them.

[HachiRoku]

2 minutes ago, Sento de Benimaclet said:

No Hachi. I propose that these boats can be crafted but also purchased in DLC, depending on the hours that each player plays. And of unlimited I have not said anything. You could get a DLC Consti every 24 hours. One Bellona every 48 hours. One Christian VII every 72 hours. And no more than one at a time, as with the Hercules or Requiem. It's not about having a lot of these boats, but being able to enjoy them.

If ships have no effect on the economy they have no effect on RVR. RVR is the core of the openworld game. Destroying RVR would destroy the game. Just because you can redeem a ship every 24hrs does NOT make it limited. A free 2nd rate for every port battle if the timer was 72 hours. 24hrs to do port battle and sink, 24 hours to grind port battle again and 24 hours to retry the port battle in your brand new free 2nd rate because 3*24=72. Do the math and think about statements you make.

[HachiRoku]

@Sento de BenimacletAlso I don't have the time to play the game more than a few hours a week. Just because I don't have much time doesn't mean the game should be designed around me.... I don't have the time for RVR for another few months. Naval action is a hardcore time consuming game or a casual game. You cannot have both. 

[Sento de Benimaclet]

12 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

Destroying RVR would destroy the game

RVR has already destroyed it.

 

13 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

Just because you can redeem a ship every 24hrs does NOT make it limited.

This is already done with the Hercules and Le Requin.

12 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

I don't have much time doesn't mean the game should be designed around me

Neither do I want it, just think about all the players. I'm not going to go into a loop, you think one way and I think another. If all this comes out something positive and good for the game will be worth it. Greetings.

[HachiRoku]

2 minutes ago, Sento de Benimaclet said:

RVR has already destroyed it.

 

Good argument. RVR is in a bad state so you basically admit you don't care. You want DLC ships because they are convent for you, not the game design. 

 

3 minutes ago, Sento de Benimaclet said:

This is already done with the Hercules and Le Requin.

19 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

And failed. They cannot join shallow water port battles remember? Want the same to happen to bellonas etc? People called those ships op but they were also breaking the logistics of rvr ship building and ship building is 50% of rvr. Just sail to any port close to the port battle and redeem your port battle ships. Buy medium cannons from ai shops and mods dont really matter in shallow ships port battles.  Without that working the devs might aswell make the game lobby based. 

 

8 minutes ago, Sento de Benimaclet said:

If all this comes out something positive and good for the game will be worth it. Greetings.

Nothing positive can come from adding DLC that is game breaking for a fact. I have told you the facts. If you deny them you are delusional. 

[Tomasso il Fortunato]

4 hours ago, admin said:

We have not yet decided what we are going to do with rare ships and how to maintain rarity if they are craft-able. 
Christian being a 2nd rate cannot be a DLC, there was an interesting proposal to change all new dlc ships to permits, but we did not have time to address this idea. 

Nah , i didn't pay for those DLC ships for nothing , they are premium and only premium.

Where is the Montaine Class ship? And the others from the pool ?

Edited November 30, 2018 by Captan Thomas Fremantle

[znôrt]

13 hours ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

And yes, I want to be able to build the classic, same as Diana, and I am sure it is coming with EconomyTwo.

At the moment our group strives to capture classics and dianas to satisfy the lack of crafting. We really like them. And we also put them in the line of fire, daily.

Kudos to the guys using them without fear of loss. That's what War server is about.

Crafting will come.

the classic is indeed nice, i'm just now enjoying mine but ... as a pirate i feel it's not really the right ship to be sailing 

how many copper-platings would anybody pay for mine? it's as good as new!

[Porpoise]

IMO all DLC ships should not come in notes, but in permits, so people have to craft them and spend materials. I would also suggest a longer delay between redeems. Lets say 3x a week for Herc and 1x for Christian. Le Requin should be banned because it is ugly and stupid.  

[Jack Jones]

7 minutes ago, Porpoise said:

IMO all DLC ships should not come in notes, but in permits, so people have to craft them and spend materials. I would also suggest a longer delay between redeems. Lets say 3x a week for Herc and 1x for Christian. Le Requin should be banned because it is ugly and stupid.  

It absolutely amazes me that some people still think the existing DLC can be altered and also I love Requins they are the most useless and easy to avoid/sink ships in the game.

 

[Hethwill]

38 minutes ago, Porpoise said:

Le Requin should be banned because it is ugly and stupid.

😮 ... a ship can only be as stupid as the crew.

Regarding beauty... eye of the beholder. She is a mean sexy looking vessel. I'd prefer her with the white sails though.