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Flags, Flags, Flags - 2 - Flag proposals only

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Why do we not have the "King's Colours" in the game as a flag for the Brits?

2560px-Flag_of_Great_Britain_(1707%E2%80

I guess it may not have been flown from the stern of a ship in plain form, but there are other flags in the DLC that were not used at sea (French infantry-flag), and even a completely a-historical flag (Swedish flag "King's Battle Ensign").

And the flag was flown on ships, even if possibly not from the stern:

The_Charles_Galley-Willem_van_de_Velde_t

Also based on this picture, if we want more diversity in flags, how about making another version of this:

1841522241_RedEnsign1625_00001.png.497ea 

Only with the Saint George's Cross significantly larger?

On the above painting it looks like the St George's Cross is about 1/4th of the flag.

On the topic of Swedish flags though:

While I hate the King's Battle Ensign abomination of a flag (just to make it slightly less horrible, could you consider even to rework it just to remove the Coat of Arms of King Gustav Vasa from the middle of it?), I acknowledge the need for more Swedish flags. I would advocate for more diverse flags however, and history provides some good flags to pick from. I've mentioned them before, but I would reiterate:

Hillestr%C3%B6m.jpg

The flag on the stern of the closest ship in the picture above.

Also found here:

Swedish_1620_soldier_banner.jpg and here: Swedish_historical_flags_at_Maritime_Mus

It is also similar to the current and historical (probably same origin) flag of Reval (Tallin), which during a (small) part of the historical period of this game was Swedish:

ee-talin.gif An historical representation: revelska.jpg.aef1ff4fe41603b52b759ef89b205ce3.jpg 

Then there's the Riga flag, another Swedish possession in this time-period. There are some slightly differing representations of this flag, but all with the keys from the CoA of Riga on a background made by the Swedish flag: 

rigiska.jpg.15206f601b22e9f3d7ba0b650de99a95.jpg lv_st938.gif  lv-rig2.gif Flag_of_Riga_(mid_17th_century_-_1860s). Riga._Johnson's_new_chart_of_national_em

Then there's the Strahlsund flag:

Strahlsundska.jpg.df83300e50093346a52fd93864b38ac2.jpgde_stral.gif

The town was Swedish inside the period of this game. So the flag is not out of question, and differs greatly from the other Swedish flags in the game.

Lastly there's another version of the all blue, three-tongued flag:

armflottan.jpg.80d64a9af8e278dd1b4834c23e4aa18e.jpg The Armed Fleet Command's Flag

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I actually found a "source" of the flag named the "King's Battle Ensign":

olyckan_vasa-seglar.jpg

It looks like it might be a (modern) commemorative flag, flown here from a digital representation of the Vasa maiden voyage. From the website of the Vasa Museum in Sweden.

I still haven't found any indication that this flag is historically accurate in any way though. 

Here is the Maritime Museum in Sweden flying historical Swedish flags and it is notably missing:

Swedish_historical_flags_at_Maritime_Mus

I really hope we get the two first flags in-game, even though they are both too early for the time-period of this game. I also hope we will have a Swedish East India Company flag, just like we have East India Company flags for other nations. Same for Danish trading companies that didn't operate in the Caribbean.

EDIT:

Also a painting hanging at the Vasa Museum. Though it's a little dark at the stern is flying the flag with symbols from the coat of arms, but without the Gustav Vasa CoA detail in the middle.

vasa_painting_by_cyothelion_dcnkjkw-full

Edited by Anolytic
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On 4/1/2019 at 3:45 PM, Anolytic said:

(French infantry-flag)

@admin Could we please have a prussian infantry flag? Since french got one already and we have the Kingdom of Bavaria flag already, that barely has anyhing to do with the Kingdom of Prussia... 

After all Prussia was known for its infantry. It would be much more fitting and accurate than the Bavaria flag.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Sovereign said:

@admin Could we please have a prussian infantry flag? Since french got one already and we have the Kingdom of Bavaria flag already, that barely has anyhing to do with the Kingdom of Prussia... 

After all Prussia was known for its infantry. It would be much more fitting and accurate than the Bavaria flag.

 

 

1851453644_Groes_Wappen_des_Knigreichs_Preuen.thumb.png.ca4f4591b5524da8824324925c598223.png

still would like to see this as flag 

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Some more suggestions for France, I would love to see the flag of Napoleons regiment fighting for Ireland's freedom during the Irish Rebellion of 1798:

f67e71db24334011a43b5ef8e4f30186.jpgf1bee55929231ff438cfd2c9c61ea5d9.jpg171ab34b2f39c89a870cd9a632d49d7c.jpg62a8d04e5e0a03685704f95f138f8bcf.jpg

581f912ada568d6a1d0cacd92c993c7d.jpgb2b11012b92285fe33b35ec12e66c94a.jpg

Edited by Jean de la Rochelle
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I admit those flags for the Irish campaign are a bit preposterous by Napoleon I but maybe your artists could make something good out of it ... 😉😉

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While not strictly a naval flag, would love for a variant of this to be able to be flown for the British. image.png.7e5e489407c2c2d7e7e91f69fbc8c788.png

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The port of Visby on the island of Gotland has for hundreds of years been of vital importance for the Swedish navy and still is, to this very day.
Their flag originates from a sigil created around 1280.

EDIT: This is the flag of Gotland, not Visby. The flag of Visby is almost identical, but with a red backround.

gotland-flaggby.jpg

EDIT:

The city of Göteborg was originally designed to make sure that the 15km land dividing the Danish lands of Bohuslän, Skåna and Blekinge from their lands in Norway stayed Swedish. The city would however flourish at the start of the 1750's to the end of 1800. Mostly becuse of the East India Company. Becomming the most important port in Scandinavia for trade and still is today.

Relaterad bild

NOTE: The rotation of the lion was not decided until late 1900's, and it was never specificed in the letter, originally mentioning the flag, from 7th May 1737.

Edited by The_S_U_C_C
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On 4/1/2019 at 3:45 PM, Anolytic said:

It is also similar to the current and historical (probably same origin) flag of Reval (Tallin), which during a (small) part of the historical period of this game was Swedish:

ee-talin.gif An historical representation: revelska.jpg.aef1ff4fe41603b52b759ef89b205ce3.jpg 

That's the one that Poland received and I believe that the name of it is wrong. In fact Reval/Tallinn was under Polish control for some time so I have no issue with the flag (only seems like stripes order is incorrect, but I may be wrong on this). 

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Flags of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta

For future reference , hopefully maybe a Mega Update including the Knights of Malta as a faction among other nations like Portugal etc , or just a new Flag DLC including these Maltese flags that could be used under the French or Spanish Navies .The Knights of Malta had strong Links with both nations ,  actually the Knights bought and managed  4 islands in the Caribbean , Saint Christopher , Saint Martin , Saint Barthelemy and Saint Croix thanks to links with French aristocrats so the French link makes sense , the Knights also had a lot of French nationals in their ranks . Spain had a good relationship with the Order too and many Knights were also of spanish nationality .Back in the Mediterranean It was the King of Spain that gave the island of Malta to the knights and later on the Knights and Maltese corsairs fought side by side with the spaniards in several naval battles.  These Maltese flags could hopefully at least be introduced in the game under one of these two nations like Portuguese flags could be introduced under the Spanish Navy.

 

The eight pointed Maltese Cross Flag of the order used by the Grand Masters.

smom-gm.gif.171214bfaf9958031b9c90927f1f025f.gif

Prominent in the Maltese Navy. A Galley flying the Maltese Cross Flags  :

1092233102_MalteseGalley.jpg.9b0b1dbbdc5b9eb69134cd84ba297665.jpg 

Model of a Maltese Carrack with the eight pointed cross :

604612892_MalteseCarrackModel.jpg.b665ef05675e6ee83d817ddd0e53f8fb.jpg

The eight points of the cross represent the Eight Languages of the Order of St. John. Moreover, the eight points of the cross also symbolise the obligations and aspirations of the Knights :

Malta Knights.jpg

The Flag and Ensign of the Order of Malta . A white cross on a red background , the cross is in the center of the flag , its the only difference from the flag of Denmark . The Danish flag has an off centered cross :

smom.gif.0fb4a82a3c8544842fbbc490d576444d.gif

Valletta and the Grand Harbour :

Valletta.jpg.8841603583f25725798e32b22c246535.jpg

Painting showing the Knights of Malta Flag and Ensign used by the fleet :

1527748031_Maltashipsflags.jpg.d5dd9cb7f6452ab53b89a36c191eb79b.jpg

The Flag used by the Knights and Maltese Corsairs , this is the flag of the coat of arms of Grand Master Manuel Pinto de Fonseca ,  often flown on the stern, together with the Order s flag ensign :

=smom_gm68.gif.cf854423742f4a11f279684b36252f13.gif 

A Maltese Galley with Grand Master  Manuel Pinto de Fonseca Flag :

938364015_MalteseCorsairs.jpg.15028373125d6b79cb112f4f738cd3df.jpg

It was Common to see the current Grand Master s colours flying on a ship of the order. This is the Flag of Grand Master De l Isle Adam which can be seen flying on the foremast in the painting below :

smom_isleadam.gif.11e3cd723895f4068dafa178dec7a193.gif

1947021603_MalteseCarrack.thumb.jpg.19706764d9accdeff15d52b839c0d759.jpg

The Pennants of the Order :

1869329571_Naval_Flags_Sovereign_Military_Order_of_Malta(1).jpg.7e77fbbf1a29872ae018eabc4169de90.jpg    smom_gf.gif.b4611d28642e24bd9b9f1d75b0b183c5.gif

1319856432_knightsofMalta.jpg.52b1cdf2dbf11cc1fbb8a8e0b6a59085.jpg

Pennant with golden image of St. Mary with child, nimbed, standing upon a lying crescent and surrounded by a golden aureole.

smom_be.gif.26a0faa9b504e8aed891dac4fd3c028f.gif

The flag of Jerusalem  to signal Holy Mass was being celebrated on Flagship.

smom_hm.gif.81cbc07d55619efd4ee34ff3f33dbdb2.gif

This red flag with two white crescents and two golden stars was used to call all surgeons to report on Flagship.

smom_sg.gif.aadc7aa145b40b2e235f70025e00b92c.gif

Round tailed guidons bearing the Maltese Cross.

smom_g.gif.687a4bc51a4ba9898a1d49286d870ee5.gif

Man-of-War Battalion , Grand Masters Colours  , a white square flag with the coat of arms of the order’s Grandmaster Manuel Pinto de Fonseca (1741-1773) in its centre. The shield is topped by a crown, lined black. 

1125026466_smomgm68.gif.3017e213e9b2058f7394140b12865bd2.gif

Men-of-War Battalion  , Orders Colours . a pink square flag with the coat of arms of the Order of St. John in its centre. The shield is topped by a crown, lined black and is superimposing two crossed black anchors.

7030494_smombmow.gif.4ca84189cbc522c658aabeaf45ad4c09.gif

Battalion of the Galleys , Papal Colours , a white square flag with the coat of arms of Pope Clemens XIII (1758-1769) in its centre.

107444473_smompcl13.gif.73e07cfa5c08c2f0bb5cf899f9571aff.gif

Battalion of the Galleys , Order Colours , a white square flag with the coat of arms of the Order of St. John in its centre. The shield is topped by a crown, lined black and is superimposing two crossed bundles of three palm leaves each in natural colour.

885845444_smombgal.gif.98acec6bff49876027be2bf008227343.gif

Flamma Torchina ,  a plain blue hanging triangular pennant of ratio estimated 1:2. ,  not a lof of information on this one but according to source: “Al Caleese di Maestro” or “All’ Asta dello’ Stendardo” or “All’ Andriuello” it was a  signal pennant for the use of the galley squadron“,

smom_ft.gif.e85b0efba865b90a5a89ab0ff00dff8b.gif

Red , Flamma Torchina  a ,hanging pennant, vertically divided into red and blue of ratio estimated 1:2. 
According to  Captain General of the galleys Giovanni Battista SPINOLA, 1700 this was used for Galleys .
Probably both Fiamma Torchina hanging pennants had been hoisted at the end of the yards of a Galley.
 

smom_ftr.gif.38fa72ecdbf35d1e41aff3d33f976fbf.gif

Historical Signal Flags of the Knights of Malta .

smom_sg1.jpg.3715c3dc2f0c6b41e61f1d144ed153f1.jpg

(1) Standard (al Galcese) of the triangle sail / Sign for retreat.
(2) Galley (Sensile) standard unfolded at the (Galcese) of the main mast and a longish smoke / Sign for asking help.
(3) Flag at the small boat of the main ship; departure one day later; (un tivo di cannone e trinchetto alla cola) departure one hour later.
(4) Flamed flag at the (Galcese) of the triangle sail during the "hunt" [i.e. the following] / the galleys which were in front had to (louar Remo) or to lower (?) the sails.

smom_sg2.jpg.0205c2a1c44694795c2a724e865db5ab.jpg

(1) Raised in the bows (del Fanale): sign for shooting. In haste [raised] above the helmsman: sign that the other galleys have to follow the main ship.
(2) Raised in the bows (del Fanale): sign to "make the middle mast" [prob. to hoist the sail at the middle mast]. In haste [raised] above the helmsman: sign to "make water" [prob. to speed up]
(3) At the helmsman: raised once: hoist the "Marabutto" [small sail for hard wind]. Twice: the "Marabuttino" [sail which must have been smaller than the Marabutto]. Three times: the "Mezzana" [sail at the middle mast]. Four times: the "Veletta" [=lookout; prob. somebody had to go there]. Five times: the (Treo) go/move at day (G) "Maestra" [prob. main mast] (e non facendosi, de un?). Sign to make the [unreadable]
(4) In haste above the helmsman: sign to give wine to the rowers.

smom_sg3.jpg.cbe882e45fcd326c3824930aca765395.jpg

(1) Raised in the bows (del Fanale): sign to hoist the "Marabutto" sail.
(2) Raised in the bows (del Fanale): sign to hoist the "Veletta" sail.
(3) In haste above the helmsman: sign to take the (Rimburchio) / After the taking of the (Rimburchio), placed again on the same place: sign to leave it.
(4) Raised in the bows (del Fanale): sign to go on land, and (maneggiato = fixed?) the triangle sail … the galley (sensile al galcese) of the triangle sail. Sign that the (Gol?) wants to negotiate with the (Padrono Reale Alberata) at the "Antenna" [sort of mast] of the triangle sail. Sign to [unreadable] with (Artigueria) in its (Resto) of the (Pennatto Sagno? Di salueraschi) with the (Moschetteria)

smom_sg4.jpg.b38cd15a905f0880db06214afdacae69.jpg

(1) Galley (Sensile) standard indicating to the main mast: sign to unfold the sail / Standard shown at the triangle sail: sign to unfold the (sospetta) sail.
(2) Galley (Sensile) at the (Penna) of the triangle sail, and then taken to the (Gol?) on the wind (?). [Smoke:] Sign of recognising at day: galley maintaining two smokes.
(3) Flamed flag at the (Calcese) of the main ship. Sign for the armament of the crew (sopra coperta). 
(4) Flamed flag at the (Penna) of the triangle sail. Sign to land (di Fontaria). After the landing placed again: sign of re-embarkment.

Galleons , Galleys and frigates of the Knights of Malta in the Grand Harbour.

480414183_barrierewharf.jpg.6ab823ee4210b7508ba06e39e92036a2.jpg

More Flags of the GrandMasters of the order , Most of the time these Flags would be flying on the foremast , near the ensign or as jack.

         Jean de la Vallete Parisot 

  1711257587_06-vallete-coat(2).jpg.d64462f6773551639bf6886393d4b4ab.jpg     

                      Antoine de Paule   

  smom_gm56.gif.54c3e3b708cca0db872f695ed699bd72.gif     

   Emmanuel Marie de Rohan-Polduc

  smom_gm70.gif.7a29ee9c4ed7ce15f1f03cd847913a21.gif

                Alof de Wignacourt                                                                    

  smom_gm54.gif.eb22d5da26a6e8389790d8c670a36bb0.gif     

                       Nicolas Cotoner   

  smom_gm60.gif.b1987ca51c614d0e1db128d9269830b3.gif     

              Ferdinand von Hompesch

  1781326309_smom_gm71(2).jpg.a1e9c24309a73c7431252b37eb42615b.jpg

                Ramon Perellos y Roccaful

  smom_gm64s.gif.0cf405fb27dfafffeb37306946a3d5cc.gif       

            Antonio Manoel de Vilhena 

  1301875014_440px-Blason_Antoine_Manol_de_Vilhena.svg(3).png.2192c7baafe1e5dee70ff7aee5767eec.png             

           Martin Garzes, Castellan

  1950440889_10-garzes-coat(2).jpg.4484b186d3c973fec911257c6a739673.jpg             

        Louis Mendez de Vasconcelles

  202808604_12-vasconcellos-coat(2).jpg.02d1be914a9d524502e9220ca1ce0b34.jpg                  

                         Didier de St. Jaille

  1400016076_03-jaille-coat1(2).jpg.44575c9f3b39c39730eeb35fb52d7df7.jpg

       Jean Levesque de la Cassiere

  1538710431_08-cassiere-coat(4).jpg.8a5945fc6fa4249315ad064ec28c2bb5.jpg

                  Claude de la Sengle

  smom_gm48.gif.f37fe564387fd5d87ca20396489212cc.gif

             Hugues de Loubens Verdalle

  1308187635_09-verdalle-coat(2).jpg.9a14f65d1174bcfd31483a31ca250e02.jpg

                  Juan de Omedes

  576216837_04-omedes-coat(3).jpg.03cac1c2fafbc0d7f4f0c2bd0fa5c3fc.jpg

                       Pierino del Ponte

  2032523103_02-ponte-coat(3).jpg.0fe85a4f3ce6bba125492cff3ec0a9c6.jpg

 The bustling  Grand Harbour , looking over from Valletta with the three cities of Vittoriosa , Senglea and Cospicua on the othe side :                                                                       1041632245_GreatHarbour.jpg.aba9e7dcb00ff479e5c8b12db9e353dc.jpg

Edited by Seawolf7
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@Seawolf7 can you provide any links to the books or official archive documents where to find the flags and orders you posted ? Thanks a ton. They are really striking looking and a most important part of the Med. I'm going through some focus on the Med naval and would love to know which books to add to my personal library.

 

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On 4/26/2019 at 7:35 AM, Bulwyf said:

While not strictly a naval flag, would love for a variant of this to be able to be flown for the British. image.png.7e5e489407c2c2d7e7e91f69fbc8c788.png

The battle flag of the 69th NY volunteer infantry brigade? I 100% approve :)

Edited by Potemkin
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Hethwill this is a link to photo copies of a work on the vexillological heritage of Malta , most of the info from my post is from there,  down below there are also images http://internationalcongressesofvexillology-proceedingsandreports.yolasite.com/resources/17th/Strickland-VexillologicalHeritageOfTheKnightsOfStJohnInMalta.pdf

These are other links for various info related to my post https://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/smom~sig.html

                                                                                                      https://fotw.info/flags/smom~.html

                                                                                                      https://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/smom^.html#mowb

                                                                                                      http://www.vassallomalta.com/Grandmasters/GM2/GM.htm

 

I live in Malta ,this place is living history , i suggest you read the sword and the scimitar by david bell , there are a lot of books also about the siege of Malta and the Knights and Maltese corsairs ,  try finding also In the Name of the Prince by Liam Gauci  , i knew all the Grandmasters flags already  , have been seeing them around the island all my life and yes they are beautiful , you can see them around the maltese towns and villages to this day because each particular town has a connection with some grandmaster or another., pitty i couldnt find a couple of them online , but the most popular Grandmasters flags  are there. Also the flag of the order ensign and the eight pointed cross are common sight in Malta . I just posted today in the suggestions part of the forum about the Knights of Malta

 

Edited by Seawolf7

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Hello, 

Black cross flag of the Brittany fleet from the 16th to the 18th century. 

This flag was soon adopted by the main Brittany harbors (Brest, Guérande, Nantes, Saint-Malo), as is or with certain particular variants.

Pavillon à croix noire de la flotte bretonne du XVIe au XVIIIe siècle.

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we have some art resources available for a week. 
Lets revive this topic on new flags. Is there are any awesome flags we missed and could add to current in game nations (or flags of their allies)?

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10 minutes ago, admin said:

we have some art resources available for a week. 
Lets revive this topic on new flags. Is there are any awesome flags we missed and could add to current in game nations (or flags of their allies)?

Honestly, you should open a thread for "flags of the historical allies (minor nations)" of the great powers we have ingame.

It could be very interesting for some players be able to sail the historical flag of their country.

It would encourage sales of the game and the DLC itself.

 

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2 hours ago, admin said:

we have some art resources available for a week. 
Lets revive this topic on new flags. Is there are any awesome flags we missed and could add to current in game nations (or flags of their allies)?

I found the flag used by spanish corsairs.

corsarioesp_max.jpg

bandcorso1748.jpg

34414408.webp

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@admin will we ever have the option for Clan Flags? Meaning, say the Clan Creator can select 1 of a bunch of icons that will show up on any flag we choose to fly? Like something in the upper left or bottom left corner? Maybe a National Crown, or King's Crest or Crown, or a Prince's Crest or Crown?

Or maybe we could have a mini-flag selected as the Clan Flag that would fly on all main masts, instead of random signaling flags? Same size, but selectable by the Clan Leader? This would be easier coding.

Edited by van der Clam

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