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Economy update 2. Improved trading


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On 11/29/2018 at 11:23 AM, admin said:

We monitor the supply and do not see the problems with doubloons yet. The supply grows maybe even too fast. 

I beg to differ.

Players tend to have totally opposite idea about it, as everyone hidden their SOL's in the docks until they stockpile the Doubloons.

I'd be probably comfortable with about 50.000 DB

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when we suggest a sextant, what we mean is a sextant button that, at least once per day, we can use to get our position if we need it...the idea that we should only sail in straight lines using only the protractor and otherwise memorize shoreline profiles to navigate when actual sea captains at the time had a way to fix their positions at the noon sighting led to the comment you are referencing... 

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If we were to have a sextant, we want a grid location that corresponds to a map.  

I want the grid whenever the sky is clear enough to see the sun or stars.

But sounds like we don't get a sextant, due to worries about its current abuse as a overpowered ganking tool.

Regardless, no-one has to sail in just straight lines.  Use waypoints, stay at sea, avoid coastlines, learn to time the legs of your journey.

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6 hours ago, jodgi said:

You might get it. A noon fix won't be a great ganking tool.

Right now the priorities are set. New things will have to be considered at a later stage.

A noon fix seems ineffective.  If I were lost  I doubt I would wait till noon to determine my position; more likely just find land and then a port or a landmark.

When trading it is important to avoid the coastlines, stay out on the open water, to reduce the chance of meeting hunters and allow room to flee.  Knowing the ship's location, and timing the weather guage, is key to a safe approach into port.  Arriving on a trajectory straight in from the open water at high speed is often best.  A noon fix would result in alot of waiting just to determine a position. 

I think the traders who think a "noon fix" can substitute for a sextant (F11) will be disappointed.  

Edited by Macjimm
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1 minute ago, Macjimm said:

I think many traders who think a "noon fix" cancam substitute for a sextant (F11) will be disappointed.

Maybe?

BTW, sextant is noon-fix. F11 is continuous GPS.

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2 minutes ago, jodgi said:

Maybe?

BTW, sextant is noon-fix. F11 is continuous GPS.

Good point jodgi.  I doubt many want that much realism.  I'll make do with whatever.  

Hope it is a grid location, rather than a circle, or icon, on the map though.

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1 hour ago, Macjimm said:

Good point jodgi.  I doubt many want that much realism.  I'll make do with whatever.  

Hope it is a grid location, rather than a circle, or icon, on the map though.

As I understand realism would go something like this: At noon they "quickly" decided latitude by measuring sun angle over horizon. Then some (unknown to me) fiddling with a time-piece to determine longitude. The rest of the day and night it was lines on a map according to log speed, compass, leeway and currents. Dunno how often they would gaze at stars or how accurate that could be.

We only have dead reckoning by using landmarks, then imaginary lines on map according to laser accurate course and speed.

I understand why people want this, but accurate position all the time is science fiction in our game's setting.

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2 hours ago, jodgi said:

As I understand realism would go something like this: At noon they "quickly" decided latitude by measuring sun angle over horizon. Then some (unknown to me) fiddling with a time-piece to determine longitude. The rest of the day and night it was lines on a map according to log speed, compass, leeway and currents. Dunno how often they would gaze at stars or how accurate that could be.

We only have dead reckoning by using landmarks, then imaginary lines on map according to laser accurate course and speed.

I understand why people want this, but accurate position all the time is science fiction in our game's setting.

TBH, I really don't want a noon fix. I want the continuation of the trader tool system of finding our position by triangulation. My point has always been that IRL captains had ways of navigating that did not rely on seeing a land mass and recognizing it. Navigation, should be enjoyable. Losing the Trader tool would be punitive.

Here is an option: let the port finder be expanded to tell us how far we are from a particular port. Do that with 3 ports and you can triangulate roughly where you are on the open sea. Then you can do away with the trader tool. The gaming community will probably maintain a semicurrent list of items and prices at ports. That could even be fun content!

 

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28 minutes ago, Porpoise said:

What about navigation minigame :)

 

 I've been thinking about this and perhaps "navigation officer" skillbooks would work,  or perhaps ship navigation upgrades (sextant, etc) that  create a circle on map that you are within.   Make it so you have to be stationary at sea with a timer countdown while position is calculated.

 

 

Edited by Dibbler
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14 hours ago, jodgi said:

As I understand realism would go something like this: At noon they "quickly" decided latitude by measuring sun angle over horizon. Then some (unknown to me) fiddling with a time-piece to determine longitude. The rest of the day and night it was lines on a map according to log speed, compass, leeway and currents. Dunno how often they would gaze at stars or how accurate that could be.

Actually it could be much simpler ....
just show the last noon sighting on the Player Info window

           sextant2.jpg.2ad87cf77564cb8ad892d63e7e5f0c5c.jpg

You can determine where you are, knowing where you were at noon.  If you want accuracy, stop just before noon, obtain the location and then set off to the next waypoint. 

I would be okay with this.  But I suspect most players are too impatient to use this.  I just sailed from Guibara along the N coast of Jamaica and then W to Puerto Escondido.  The trip was about 170km in 18min.  I would have obtained 1 location at noon on day 1.  (Except it was stormy and the sun was obscured.)  A noon sighting will yield a position every 20 min.  Timing ones departure will be important for traders.  Considering the noon sighting, and the wind direction, will be key for a safer arrival.

maps.jpg.dca395c2d4ac9dc8870600a37e5e55f3.jpg

Considering the alternatives I think a sextant key, that reveals a location grid number would be the best compromise.  I'm happy with a daytime noon sighting ... or nothing.  Location on a clear night should be available at any time.

I'll be happy to see the trader tool triangulation removed.  It seems too gamey.  Although because; some players enjoy it, and I don't have to look at it, it's fine to include it.

I would very much dislike to see an icon or  location circle on the map.  It would certainly spoil navigation.  If a GPS location (rough circle or point) is added to the map, I truly hope there is an option to turn it off clientside. 

Edited by Macjimm
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Being a PvE server player, I am looking forward to improved economy.

1- I welcome distance affecting prices.

2- not sure what "Dyes will be added (part for the future)" is or what this consists of or how this is going to affect/improve economy.

3- wondering about "Approximately 50+ new goods will be added for trading". Currently, there seems to be 122 items in the Trade Tool. 50+ will put the number of goods at 172+. More variety may be a good thing, but also sometimes "less is more" (in other words more variety is not always best).

4- " Resources will be repositioned and system of distribution changed ": this could be a great change and may improve trade a great deal on the PvE server, even though I don't think the current distribution is any worse than it could be. It could raise questions on the PvP server as I remember there was serious debate about where LO/WO should be produced.

5- Trade Tool removal: "It was always a qa tool to help developers find problems with prices and test changes in economy and pricing mechanisms". Never the less, in the year I have been playing the game this has been an integral part of it. I would guess the reason is that not knowing where goods/deals are, players will be forced to sail from port to port and push people into the OW and promote PvP (or ganking, whichever applies). Which I think may be totally appropriate for PvP, not so sure about PvE.

" Trading will be better and more exciting - as players do not know many things about forthcoming changes. Removal of the trader tool is like the doubloons for teleports. People complain without ANY understanding of the subject."

Complaining without understanding is often "speculation". Speculation happens when information is limited or unclear. Speculation leads to complaining without understanding. I would love to have more understanding of how "trading will be better and more exciting". Every NA player would love that, but it just seems that info to help us understand is either incomplete or lost in translation which definitely leads to speculation and worse case senarios.

But overall, I will welcome anything that will improve trade/economy.

Thank you.

 

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On 11/29/2018 at 11:23 AM, admin said:

But the patrol and challenges give plenty of doubloons + they drop in loot and especially drop well in PvP (with bonus loot in patrols and port battles)
We monitor the supply and do not see the problems with doubloons yet. The supply grows maybe even too fast. 

I started playing years ago, to move around I used a ruler and an angle conveyor on the computer screen XD. The changes of the trader tool do not seem bad, but you are constantly complicating the game to those players who like to trade and build boats and making the game easier for those who like pvp.

Either change that or the day that the early access ends the game will run out of players and die. I like many more hope that you build a game for all your customers, not just for a fraction of them. It seems that you are just trying to get more prey for pvp players.

I do not say it, the statistics say. The game has lost thousands and thousands of players

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I will support players in that question that determination of the coordinates in the sea is necessary. The captain the route and to correct it in process the ordinary blockhead which is not able to lay. Which would not be allowed even to the small sloop-of-war.
Personally to me, the card with coordinates which was in a game earlier was pleasant. On it it was possible to understand the location in the high sea. There was not enough sextant and the mechanism of definition of the ship in the sea by the sun or to stars. Introduction of such mechanism would allow to define arrangement of the ship in the high sea in certain time of day. What would help the captain at maneuvers with the sea, we will allow at a head wind. (Sorry, google translate)

If to remove the current trade tool, then it is necessary new mechanics of definition of the ship in the sea. We it seems as captains, virtual...

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When entering a friendly port, it is no more possible with the new interface, to know what can be produced there without opening an outpost.

This was not the case with previous interface. And with the future disparition of the trader tool, there will no more be any way to know and to plan where to place buildings, forests, plantations and so on.

A new difficulty for players, with no compensation in terms of fun or of immersion: exploring the map is useless by now, because you enter in the city and get no information on it.

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