Economy update 2. Improved trading

[jodgi]

3 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Majority of salesmen tries to sell ships like they are made of el dorado gold... ridiculous.

This is what leads me to think that eco lovers are shooting themselves in the foot. Someone could probably explain this to an idiot like me...

[Eyesore]

1 minute ago, jodgi said:

6 minutes ago, Hethwill the Red Duke said:

Majority of salesmen tries to sell ships like they are made of el dorado gold... ridiculous.

This is what leads me to think that eco lovers are shooting themselves in the foot. Someone could probably explain this to an idiot like me...

greed 🙂

[Hethwill]

1 minute ago, jodgi said:

This is what leads me to think that eco lovers are shooting themselves in the foot. Someone could probably explain this to an idiot like me...

All ships i've captured and eventually put up in auction sold in the first day with a profit. No idea what the other eco lovers doing.

Anyway, looking forward to all the changes. Want to see the entire puzzle laid out before me.

[z4ys]

Just now, jodgi said:

This is what leads me to think that eco lovers are shooting themselves in the foot. Someone could probably explain this to an idiot like me...

pre last crafting changes repairs were sold at +300% profit sometimes even at 1k%. Ofc many mistakes are made by greedy sellers.

[Admiral Olsen]

Why not placing a stock exchange in every capital city? It's like a hidden Trader Tool, not on the map anymore, but if you need it, sail to your capital city and find out, how much stuff costs and where to buy it. A stock exchange is a realistic feature, even in the 17th century...

[Preechur Blackheart]

2 hours ago, staun said:

I am all fine by removing trader tool and F11. But think we then should bould in a secretary that keep account of the goods and prices in ports we been in. And only update when we are in the port.

Regarding navigation. Well even at that time they had some help, witch I do think should be build in if we want a realistic NA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_chronometer

 

A major part of sailing in that day was navigation. Midshipmen learned from the sailing master and other officers how to use a sextant. Noon  sightings were the way a captain could learn EXACTLY where he was on the map. 

 

The trader tool has been, for many of us, our sextant. If it must be removed, I would ask that SOME provision be made by which a ship out of sight of land could determine its position. This is necessary because most of us do NOT sail in straight lines. We dodge sighted enemy players, and tack and veer so as to not sail directly into the wind. We enter battles and emerge sometimes out of sight of land. We (gasp) get lost and confused. If the Age of Sail captain had navigational aids, we should have some as well, more than land profiles. We should have access to good charts and a sextant-like device...

[Barbancourt]

9 hours ago, admin said:

Final part of the economy update will be deployed before the end of the year. 

• Approximately 50+ new goods will be added for trading

Why add this stuff?  I was hoping "trade goods" would disappear.  Why not have an economy based entirely on resource production, crafting production (labor hours+recipes) and player-to-player selling? 

 

Edited November 28, 2018 by Barbancourt

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I really don't see folks bitching about the removal of F11, it's more they lack of the actual tools you just mention here.  They need to bring back cords and grids on the map to allow folks to navigate and make changes to there course.  No one has really asked for a GPS dot on the map, with cords and grid you still got to look at the map and figure out where your at and navigate there.  F11 is rarely used in gank fleets any way.....casue all you have ot say is, "I"m getting ganked in fron to such and such port." and more folks will know where your at.  

I feel you. @admin I feel if you would say you were removing trader tool to improve it and the F11 coords because you were working on some more realistic options and  show some kind of picture we could relate to, all of these threads wouldn't be some kind of shit show  

[Barbancourt]

6 hours ago, admin said:

Removal of the trader tool is like the doubloons for teleports. People complain without ANY understanding of the subject. 

I have approaching 2000 hours in the game, so I think I have a pretty good understanding of the "subject".  The teleport fee remains an unnecessary detriment to the game. 

[Sir Texas Sir]

22 minutes ago, jodgi said:

This is what leads me to think that eco lovers are shooting themselves in the foot. Someone could probably explain this to an idiot like me...

The first week of the patch I took some shallow ships, Heavy Rats and posted them for 10K  I normally sold them pre-patch for 250K if they have no perks and 275K if they have.  A pretty good mark up but not insane profits (thinks it's like 50% profit).   Well not even 10 mins later some one bought up all my ships I posted and put them for 24-25K.  He had one ship posted for 34K when I posted them and was trying to not look like he had it marked way to high. I asked him why and he said, "you posted them way to cheap."   10K is 1/25 of 250K which I thought since the excahnge was 1 to 25 when the patch hit it would be a good starting point for testing the market.   I see folks do this all the time specially in capitals....buy up stuff that folks post for a decent price and than resale them much higher.  We use to have problems with folks doing this in ports we staged for PB's and other things.  Got to a point we just stop posting repairs and handed them out.  Some folks have no clue what it cost to actually build stuff or they think labor hours are worth way more than they should be....to me labor is a free coast in buidling so I make more profit on things I sale, but keep goods below the market value to sale faster.

[HachiRoku]

42 minutes ago, Wyy said:

are you implying that without the trader tool or the na.map-netlify page you know which port buys the Jutland Amber for the highest price? You got 15 mins to convince me

dude, I have not traded a single item in about 2 years. Last time I traded I had no tools and I think if I managed it you will. I really don't care if a trader makes a few million less a day. I know what otto kohl made from trading. He alone supported an entire clan with about 2 hours of work a week. 

[JDAM]

3 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

dude, I have not traded a single item in about 2 years. Last time I traded I had no tools and I think if I managed it you will. I really don't care if a trader makes a few million less a day. I know what otto kohl made from trading. He alone supported an entire clan with about 2 hours of work a week. 

That would make you the least qualified to comment then.  

[Eyesore]

8 hours ago, admin said:

Resources will be repositioned and system of distribution changed - this might cause changes of spawn for standard natural resources in some locations

Does this mean that resources will/may be found in another port? Only a one time switch when the patch is applied?

Or will resources continue to switch after patch to another new port after a while? (perhaps some sort of simulation how a port/region gets depleted from it's natural resources and needs time to build up again before it can be harvested again?)(perhaps a port/region gets depleted faster if more players 'harvest' there?(overconsumption?))(perhaps not every port has the same potential (some produce more resources or have larger stores, so it takes considerably(?)longer or is impossible (there is a constant resourcefeed but it is very low?) to deplete those (maybe the harvestingcost could be higher?), to have some more stability(?) and prevent people to completely having to live like hunter-gatherers and move around all the time)

Will prices be still fixed? Admin already said that distance may play a role in pricedifferences. Will supply and demand matter to set a price?

Will tradeships still supply the ports? (so they can still be intercepted at sea before delivery?)

Maybe the ports that are on mainland also get delivered (basic) resources from the continent? While the islands only get supplied by ship?

 

[Barbancourt]

6 hours ago, admin said:

but we did one for marketing (never used before) - MEGA EXCLUSIVE MAPS AND LAND RECOGNITION CHARTS.

 

These need to be in the game

[OjK]

Yes, please, remove the F11. 

No, please, don't make as sailing straight lines like arcade kids. 

I think this game was about beeing realistic? None ship ever sailed the seas in a straight line... 

[Barbancourt]

6 minutes ago, OjK said:

I think this game was about beeing realistic? None ship ever sailed the seas in a straight line... 

Sailors (or at least their officers) were paid for their time at sea.  We're unpaid hobbyists trying to fit in ship combat in a couple hours after work, so adding something that wastes time is not a good thing. 

Edited November 28, 2018 by Barbancourt

[John Jacob Astor]

2 hours ago, SS Minnow said:

OK, don't remember a port ever buying my ship, but maybe 3k is too cheap now, idk.  Isn't this a good way to promote crafting, AI capturing, ship market, economic diversity...lol

AI yes.  Crafting not so much.  Unless you stick to free labor.  But the economics blow all to hell if you start buying doubloons to get the  labor.

Don't have my notes handy but I suspect that 3k is in the neighborhood of the resource costs for a baseline build.  With NO meaningful allowance for the labor costs for the resources and ship

[Barbancourt]

21 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Because you have to have enough players to make it work.

I'm not sure about that - it seems like player production and consumption should balance out if the marketplaces are done right. 

Edited November 29, 2018 by Barbancourt

[La bouche]

9 hours ago, Grundgemunkey said:

you believe that traders in the age of sail just set off blindly to a port a 1000 miles away not knowing what was available to buy there and what the cost was ... ????  ,,, they had agents in ports that bought and sold goods they had contracts  .. they knew exactly what price of goods were

This sound interesting...maybe devs introduce like a limited numbers of agents or spies that you can hire and put in strategical points. Something that you can put on limited numbers of ports and they work like bots, giving you informarion from time to time and you can relocate them the same way that happens with towing ships: once per day or for some number of days 

Edited November 29, 2018 by La bouche
Wrong word

[Vernon Merrill]

I used to like when the clerk would periodically call out the location of random players....  It just needs to be more recent.

I wish the game would do more random "stuff" like maybe random alliances...

[SirAlatriste]

10 hours ago, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

More goods, no trader tool, this looks like total hell to me.

 

 You capture a cargo, then you have to rely on your memory (100+ goods name & values to remember ) to sell it at a good price, or visit every single port to eventually sell it a the best price if the port is not already full of it and refusing more ?

 This is totally a bad move, just making things painfull, difficult & boring, with less tool than a real life job, while serving as food for hunters..

 

Good good ...

To make a benefit, the cities on which you will have to sell the goods will be always the same (I think it won't change in pass of time) and you will have to know it or asking someone about that or just not selling a Spanish Good in a Spanish port, for example. Because all "overseas" goods will be well paid.

The admins are not making things more painfull. Almost all goods will be well sold in a nation's capital as always, it will be harder but more exciting: the trade will be a new world to explore with prices, stocks and new goods to discover all around the Caribbean. 

It will be the finish of the modern electronic trade and the beginning of the 'from mouth of mouth' and captain registry/archive/recopilation of information era.

It will be a more realistic and enjoyable beautiful age of sail game.

[AeRoTR]

2 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

 He had one ship posted for 34K  10K is 1/25 of 250K which I thought since the excahnge was 1 to 25 when the patch hit it would be a good starting point for testing the market.  

Unfortunately rate is not 1/25, that was how our gold coverted to reals, underpaying it !

A shop frigate use to be 112k gold. So it would convert to 4500 reals.

But npc sells frigate for 13k reals ! So real rate regarding ship price is 1/9 , or 3 times more expansive to what it should be.

Shop hull repairs were 900 gold, now around 70 gold, again much more than 1/25 conversion rate. Again around 1/12 rate. 2 times expansive.

On the otherhand, 4th rate and above ships should be much more expansive compared to old times, including dubloon rate and labour hours with doubloons.

So my friend with 1/1 coversion of pvp marks to dubloons, 1/25 gold exchange rate to reals. We got denominated hardcore by the devs  our real wealth shrinked around my best guess of %60 percent.

[JDAM]

26 minutes ago, SirAlatriste said:

To make a benefit, the cities on which you will have to sell the goods will be always the same (I think it won't change in pass of time) and you will have to know it or asking someone about that or just not selling a Spanish Good in a Spanish port, for example. Because all "overseas" goods will be well paid.

The admins are not making things more painfull. Almost all goods will be well sold in a nation's capital as always, it will be harder but more exciting: the trade will be a new world to explore with prices, stocks and new goods to discover all around the Caribbean. 

It will be the finish of the modern electronic trade and the beginning of the 'from mouth of mouth' and captain registry/archive/recopilation of information era.

It will be a more realistic and enjoyable beautiful age of sail game.

LOL. 

[SnovaZdorowa]

f11

tradertool

#weareneednavigationtools

pencil + protractor + timer + ship log + ability to draw on map

 

[van der Clam]

12 hours ago, admin said:

• Trader tool will most likely be removed as it gives too much information; turning search of good deals into modern electronic trading, destroying immersion and trading opportunities for those who want to occasionally stumble upon something special. It was always a qa tool to help developers find problems with prices and test changes in economy and pricing mechanisms.

I have always likened the Trader Tool to historical "word of mouth". It let's us know what stuff is wanted where, but we could get there too late and see that the port is overloaded. It's no different than historical traders knowing Canada had fur and that Europe wanted them, or that Jakarta had spices that Europe wanted.

Perhaps, rather than killing the tool, you could update it only once a day. Or at least maybe there should be some way to notify players which ports supply/demand what.