Economy update 2. Improved trading

[Draymoor]

5 minutes ago, admin said:

Above is the statement from last year.

We are getting closer and closer to the release dates 
(localization translators start working next monday as code have been moved to support multiple languages. Trading will be better and more exciting - as players do not know many things about forthcoming changes. Removal of the trader tool is like the doubloons for teleports. People complain without ANY understanding of the subject. 

Releasing incomplete information is just a bad policy admin, why make players worry about upcoming changes if there's more changes that might make it okay and remove their concerns? If the players don't have enough 'understanding of the subject' it is your fault for throwing out incomplete patch information. 
Doubloons for teleports still remains a terrible 'feature'. 

[Angus MacDuff]

My question is, will the trade goods and trade routes that we discover to be profitable remain consistent.  I don't mind searching out new routes and goods (just did that), but it would be nice that once discovered, you can count on it

[JDAM]

1 minute ago, Trashumi Cubanwara said:

FYI: you have external "apps" for this, made by the community so stop acting like that

Wow talk about gamey.  I don’t use those tools  

 

I NAVIGATE IN GAME THATS WHY THIS MAKES NO SENSE 

[admin]

4 minutes ago, Rickard said:

now, please answer my question - navigation

 

I do not understand how navigation is related to trading and resources and trader tool 
 

[Anne Wildcat]

My question is: if I stop at a port, will it show what everything sells for, not just what the in stock item sells for or what I have in my hold sells for, so I can make a list?

[JDAM]

1 minute ago, admin said:

I do not understand how navigation is related to trading and resources and trader tool 
 

Via triangulation.   

[admin]

3 minutes ago, Draymoor said:

Releasing incomplete information is just a bad policy admin, why make players worry about upcoming changes if there's more changes that might make it okay and remove their concerns? If the players don't have enough 'understanding of the subject' it is your fault for throwing out incomplete patch information. 
Doubloons for teleports still remains a terrible 'feature'. 

removing the trader tool and adding new resources is not incomplete information; but facts. Its an advanced warning and is part of our communication - we give news (good and bad) as soon as we know that some facts will happen. If you dont like it - well go read naval action reddit or steam patch announcement. And please stop telling us how to talk on OUR forums.

[Georg Fromm]

3 minutes ago, Hemp Amore said:

That opinion has no basis in reality.  No.   That has no relationship to the trader tool. Nobody is going to explore anything sailing and spending time for a chance of finding a trade route.  That is just rediculous thinking.  Trade needs to be guaranteed and sorry bud they didn’t just sail ships to ports and hope there were good there to make a profit.  You don’t send 60+ crew and a ship to ports unknown and hope you make some money.  Quite the opposite you know what you’re trading, how much revenue and profit or you don’t sail.  

800/5000

Excuse me, you should perhaps deal with the trade of this time. It is by no means the case that trading companies knew well before the start of a journey whether and how much their traders could buy at what point in the journey. What you knew is that there is a certain product in a certain area. No slave trader went to Africa and already knew at the beginning that 100 slaves were waiting for him at the pier to pick him up. He also did not know what price he had to pay for it.

Portuguese and Dutch traders equipped expeditions to India and Indonesia, only knowing that there are rare spices there. The commercial decisions were often made spontaneously on site. There was always some uncertainty in the game

[JDAM]

2 minutes ago, admin said:

removing the trader tool and adding new resources is not incomplete information; but facts. Its an advanced warning and is part of our communication - we give news (good and bad) as soon as we know that some facts will happen. If you dont like it - well go read naval action reddit or steam patch announcement. And please stop telling us how to talk on OUR forums.

Dev of game should be balanced with your communities desires.  It’s not just about the Naval Action dev team it’s about US the players. 

Edited November 28, 2018 by Hemp Amore
Typo

[Takumi El risitas]

Just now, Hemp Amore said:

I don’t use those tools

Me neither, but you look a bit buthurted with this announcement, thats why im telling you this

 

3 minutes ago, Hemp Amore said:

I NAVIGATE IN GAME THATS WHY THIS MAKES NO SENSE 

Oh really? It makes sense to know in every moment how much does coal cost in every port of the Caribbean? Even the exact distance to the port from your exact position? 

[admin]

 

1 minute ago, Captain Woodpecker said:

FYI We use the trader tool to navigate.

 

Just now, Hemp Amore said:

Via triangulation.   

Yep . its a great developer feature of the trader tool which does not belong in the full version of the game. Like many other great developer tools that we have (like showing bot or player positions and routes) 

[JDAM]

3 minutes ago, Trashumi Cubanwara said:

Oh really? It makes sense to know in every moment how much does coal cost in every port of the Caribbean? Even the exact distance to the port from your exact position? 

Yes it does. They had better accuracy in the 1700s than we do in game.  There was a position on the ship called Sailing Master.  They were experts at navigation, they did it via the stars, their latitude and via sextant.   They knew very much where they were in the ocean at all times.  It was required to safely get to your destination.   Using the trader tool you can partially simulate this.  I am not “butt hurt” I’m trying to inform @admin of some unintended consequences of removing the current tool.  If he adds something that just shows distance to ports with no price infinite that would work the same and would solve the issue.   Prices are QOL and are an aid to the player which is what they are here for.  ($$$)

[Vernon Merrill]

1 minute ago, Hemp Amore said:

Yes it does. They had better accuracy in the 1700s than we do in game.  There was a position on the ship called Sailing Master.  They were experts at navigation, they did it via the stars, their latitude and via sextant.   They knew very much where they were in the ocean at all times.  It was required to safely get to your destination.   Using the trader tool you can partially simulate this.  I am not “butt hurt” I’m trying to inform @admin of some unintended consequences of removing the current tool.  If he adds something that just shows distance to ports with no price infinite that would work the same and would solve the issue.   Prices are QOL and are an aid to the player which is what they are here for.  ($$$)

OMG!!!  Imagine if you actually LOST money on a bad trade guess!?!?!?

I'm SURE that never happened in real life.

[admin]

5 minutes ago, Louis Garneray said:

don't forget to be nice while being honest

LOL ))) - if saying "no" and please "let us decide ourselves" is not nice to you - you should definitely move to steam forums. Steam has very polite neutral mods talking to users using carefully crafted news announcements. Which are never meant to offend. This is a development forum. Here people talk to people and can demand things from each other AND say no to each other. 

[admin]

3 minutes ago, rediii said:

@admin trader tool is the only way (except gamey F11) to know where you actually are if you got lost. Do we get a navigation tool except the protractor?

Sail southwest?

[JDAM]

Just now, admin said:

Sail southwest?

Is that really your answer?   That’s disappointing  

[Anne Wildcat]

We have a compass in the game.  You can use that to find your way from port to port.  If you get lost, head in one direction until you hit land. For the size of map we have, compass works just fine!

Back to trading.  Will there be some way to know what goods you don’t have on you sell for?

 

[Macjimm]

Gosh, I can remember travelling to shop, when I didn't have a credit card.  Had to carry cash.  There was always a concern about being robbed, so I kept the cash out of sight. Prices were a big guess.  No internet.  Was really excited when there was a great deal.  Didn't really know what I would find till I arrived.

I can't imagine that traders in the age of sail knew the prices of everything in advance.  There may have been opportunities to set up delivery trade deals, but player to player trading will allow for that.

Sounds like trading may become more interesting.  Especially if shop prices vary depending on supply and demand.

For those who hate trading and just want to fight, hire someone to trade for you.  Or share in the profits of a trade run by providing escort.  Work with other players as an independant, play with others for support or join a clan.

Having too much detailed information can result in mechanical , repetitive gameplay .  The Grind.

Edited November 28, 2018 by Macjimm

[admin]

10 minutes ago, Rickard said:

so now that you do know how navigation is related to trading and resources and trader tool, please answer my question.

 

If the question is how do you navigate - the answer is - by planning the route. If you plan the route for example using landmarks or compass + protractor you cannot get lost. 

[JDAM]

11 minutes ago, Vernon Merrill said:

OMG!!!  Imagine if you actually LOST money on a bad trade guess!?!?!?

I'm SURE that never happened in real life.

Bud in the age of sail society was still very much focused on survival.   In that day in age making yourself broke would have been a death sentence.  They certainly did not lose money or value in their trades.  They just wouldn’t of made the deal and found better trade elsewhere.   

[admin]

4 minutes ago, Hemp Amore said:

Is that really your answer?   That’s disappointing  

You cannot get lost in this game - but if you are lost - this means you have not planned the route properly. Many people navigate by feel. I dont even use the protractor and hitting a wrong coast is exciting. 

Travel will be more exciting and trading too. F11 coords will be removed too after bot navigational routes are fixed. 

[JDAM]

1 minute ago, admin said:

If the question is how do you navigate - the answer is - by planning the route. If you plan the route for example using landmarks or compass + protractor you cannot get lost. 

Nah.  Landmark sailing is very gamey and newbie style.   Ded-reckoning is the real way.  But clearly you have no desire to actually listen to your user base.   I guess the old tripe your game you do what you want.  I’ll see how many more of your “revolutionary” changes I and others can stomach.   Why are we still on mechanics 3 years later?  

[Sir Texas Sir]

17 minutes ago, rediii said:

@admin trader tool is the only way (except gamey F11) to know where you actually are if you got lost. Do we get a navigation tool except the protractor?

We really should get Cords back and the Lat/Long grid back on the map.

8 minutes ago, admin said:

If the question is how do you navigate - the answer is - by planning the route. If you plan the route for example using landmarks or compass + protractor you cannot get lost. 

Using Landmarks?   WHAT IS THIS AGE OF VIKING SAILINGS?

[Eyesore]

12 minutes ago, Hemp Amore said:

16 minutes ago, Trashumi Cubanwara said:

If the game gets even more hardcore it will be even more fun, when you have done a really good deal with random goods you will feel really good, trust me.

This encourage people to discover new ways of trading and re-discovers dead areas of the map.

That opinion has no basis in reality.  No.   That has no relationship to the trader tool. Nobody is going to explore anything sailing and spending time for a chance of finding a trade route.  That is just rediculous thinking.  Trade needs to be guaranteed and sorry bud they didn’t just sail ships to ports and hope there were good there to make a profit.  You don’t send 60+ crew and a ship to ports unknown and hope you make some money.  Quite the opposite you know what you’re trading, how much revenue and profit or you don’t sail.  

I'm with Trashumi here.

Hemp Amore, many people (yes, me too) did just that in the beginning, sail around, look at markets (made spreadsheets) and discovered/developped their own traderoutes.

So, first you get to know the market (do your research, take notes, with a fast tlynx or immediately use an indiaman if you like) and then decide which goods you want to or can trade. Maybe create a nearby outpost if you found an interesting area where you can stock up your goods (maybe buy in small ammounts, then transport them in bulk to wherever you need them).

It also creates more traffic everywhere (atleast until everybody has gathered the necessairy intelligence/info, or until the becomes available via 3rd party (hopefully not updated in realtime), a little bit like everybody was/is attacking ai traders (for dubloons, but also resources) (that's how i have gotten all my shipbuildingresources since the last patch (all in enemy waters and in captured lgv's (so nothing lost in the cases i got intercepted)  :-) ), did not waste a single labourhour on extracting them myself).

Trade is garanteed, a good trader takes his prospecting serious though and as a result doesn't get intercepted very often. Getting intercepted and losing your ship and/or cargo is also a form of trade (looking at the global picture then).

Availability of goods is/was never garanteed (definately also in the timeperiod, sure, the big tradingcompagnies had agents (=contracts(?)), but those agents had to do the legwork also (daily/hourly?)), even when the tradertool says it is.

Prices are/were never static, there is/was always fluctuation. Sometimes it is better to hold on to your goods and wait for a better price before you sell, nothing starnge or illogical about that.

 

[Angus MacDuff]

The thing about our trade is that we don't know what will be profitable without some form of tool.  In RL traders may not have known exact prices, but they knew what would return the best profits.  The triangle trade was always profitable, even with variances in price.  Tea traders from China knew they would earn enormous profits on their trade routes.  If I were just to pull into a strange port and look at consumer goods, I would have no idea which ones to buy or where to take them.  Please @admin, don't force me to cover my walls with charts of "prices I have seen whilst travelling".