Female Characters

[Inigo Balboa aka Ronda]

Maybe we shouldn't let women play at all since there were no women Captain's in the age of sail navies. Having women players in this game would just crush immersion and we can't have that. Realism, Historical accuracy, immersive game play, that is the only thing acceptable for NA!

 

 

 

JK

 

They will dress up like men and sneak in any way, don't worry

[NorthernWolves]

I'm all for historical accuracy, but there are far more immersion killing things that will be going on than a female captain who's avatar you will rarely see.

I voted that they are fine as long as they are fully clothed. We do not need the 'can't get laid in real life so I'm going to play a half naked female' crowd of boys rushing to NA.

 

We can't ban females from playing females either, that's ridiculous.

 

For the record, any and all female gamers are welcome in the Decatur Armada and you will be treated and judged by the same criteria as everyone else.

[Flixerine]

"Yes, but they should be scantily clad." Same applies to males though! Who wears much in a tropical storm anyways...just soaks up with water.

 

But seriously, avatars aren't that important, and clothes should just be appropriate to the environment they are in.

[Destraex]

The gaming community often gets a bad rep from the rest of society because of sexism and in many video games females are often portrayed as sex symbols.  Seeing as the Naval Action community is so far rather mature I think we can all agree that female avatars in scantily clad clothing is not something we want.

This also is a game and not reality, and it would be against modern societal norms to not include female characters, and saying that they are not being represented because of history will not be accepted by the rest of society as a valid excuse and instead will be termed as misogynistic and sexist.

Exactly what I said. It is inevitable. 

You need a bit of revisionist inclusiveness..... I just don't understand why it is so important to have an in game character when one can just play the game no matter what sex you are. I doubt most women even care. They are smart enough to know when a game based on this kind of 1700s content that is trying to be accurate should and should not show that much detail on crew. There is no need because everybody is equal and therefore man and women are represented simply as people on the current builds. Could be either sex. So who cares. They are just humans on a boat.

[Mirones]

as pointed out befor and by others we had this discussion long befor and know that there where far more Women on ships then normally believed.

and since it only the same old names of a handfull pirates captains show up and nothing else is saying enough.

changed my no care vote to no  to give Social(Un)justicewarriors no chance.

[FreshTheFallen]

Love the sarcasm Johny. I am accepting female avatars as a product of todays society. Revisionist history and such. You cannot stop this stuff.

I am just wary as always of the way elements of online communities work to spoil anything they can by abusing game mechanics.

 

In war of the roses there was a huge thread about the same thing and all the history buffs got called sexist and such even though they were just considering history. In the next game war of the vikings they introduced a lot of fantasy stuff like female characters.... the game failed and they refunded people by way of paradox steam games.

[...]

Yes, but I don't think the game failed due to female characters ingame...

 

And this one probably would not fail just because there are some female characters in the game.

[Cornelis Vrolijk]

There is a suggestion part for this.

[Robert Danforth]

This is not PotBS part II and I think you would be hard pressed to identify any notable pirate with a SOL let alone many or most.

Blackbeards Queen Anne's Revenge was a 40 gun frigate. Assume they did have a 110 gun SOL. They would need 400 pirate crew and officers skilled enough to sail it, let along capable of fighting it.

A pirate in a 110 gun SOL is far more unrealistic then a femal captain would be.

 

Well that was my point. You don't think there are going to be pirate captains with SOLs in Naval Action?

[Chustler]

Well that was my point. You don't think there are going to be pirate captains with SOLs in Naval Action?

I should hope not... It could happen, but I'm hoping most people in general won't get many opportunities to captain a first rate. I would hope they are so rare and valuable, that they would be unusual to see around and would always be properly escorted so as not to be opened up for the taking by simple pirates. Even if I played pirate, I would feel that way about it. We will see how all of that ends up working.

[greybuscat]

Scantily clad? Seriously? Pirate Porn exists, people. Remember Rule 34. There's probably at least four anime series with scantily clad female sailors, too. I bet in one, they're probably fighting the Nazis for some reason.

 

There should be female characters, but I want it to be the sandbox game's hardcore mode. Harder to promote, harder to recruit crew willing to sail under a woman, more likely to be targeted by predatory AI (if AI pirates are even a thing), etc. You can give females representation, explore some of the less glorious aspects of the era, and expand gameplay options, all at the same time.

 

I know if you go strictly for realism, women were not made into sailors or officers, rarely captained their own vessels, and that there are probably only, like, two known female western pirates, but a little bit of anachronism can be good, if you play it the right way.

[Destraex]

Yes, i but I don't think the game failed due to female characters ingame...

 

And this one probably would not fail just because there are some female characters in the game.

i was more referring to the slippery slope of suspension of disbelief. This being one step closer to Disney pirate anime if done incorrectly.

[Kamishirov]

Why not make some of the avatars serving Muslim? It may be perceived as being 'insulting' to the Muslim playerbase that will buy this game, after all we are playing in the present day and not in the past.

 

Hell, seeing as gender is only a social construct anyway maybe the inclusion of a 'gender' option would be insulting in itself.

 

We also know that sailors have a reputatation for how shall I say, 'playing' together. I think that we should have some simulated moans and groans below deck to make the homosexual community feel right at home.

 

Let's be honest about the whole 'female characters' thing that certain individuals want to push forward in this game, It's in my opinion the usual social engineering BS so that people in the future will just blindly accept the "fact" that females served in the military en masse. Just like the disgusting pushing through of the idea that 50% of Viking armies had females serving in the shield wall because of certain twisting of facts and gross exaggerations.

 

 

Just like all those movies that depict American soldiers during WWII as all being big strong GI Joes who captured that there Enigma machine to save the poor incompetent English and sort out all this war mess in Europe. *D-Day landing, Punches a Nazi out* That's for Auschwitz!! (Let the eyerolling commence) Thanks for saving us America. *Licks boots*

 

I hate things that arn't realistic or historically accurate, it kills all immersion in a game for me besides, if females really are so cut up about the lack of female representation then you know what? They can create a mod to include a female character should they so wish. (Or they can get some man to make it for them if it's too difficult) Shouldn't be difficult to make seeing as any females in the Navy would have to disguise themselves as men anyway... with male names too I might add.

 

This is going the route of Total War games isn't it? *sigh* Before that happens and the leftist hand wringers on this forum pressure the game devs to include their bad ideas let's speak up for reality and not make this a fantasy/alternate reality game please. I for one say NO to female characters in this game!

 

Sorry if my opinion isn't 'progressive' enough but there it is.

[William the Drake]

Why not make some of the avatars serving Muslim? It may be perceived as being 'insulting' to the Muslim playerbase that will buy this game, after all we are playing in the present day and not in the past.

 

Well, historically speaking, Muslims should and would be included, seeing as the Ottoman Empire was a rising power at the time and was almost exclusively Muslim. The Barbary Corsairs, the forerunners of and predecessors of Caribbean Piracy, would have been predominantly Muslim. However to identify them so in game would serve little purpose nor give any difference in appearance or gameplay.

 

As far as Races and Nationalities go, I have in fact stated that a more diverse option than just Nation A, B, and C, would be a nice change of pace,

 

And I really do not think that females in games, or catering to the playerbase is what is the issue with TW (in fact it is the exact opposite of listening to the players that has landed TW where they are now)

 

Gender, unlike faith, political party or otherwise, is hardly a "social construct", seeing as gender, again unlike faith, requires a genetic difference in chromosomes. 

 

Even Mount and Blade integrated female characters with resounding success while still keeping it historically accurate. The only reason I don't suggest their system for an MMO is to avoid where a gender (or skill class) becomes OP and players flock  to one or the other.

 

And lastly, I don't think implementing avatars, with the purpose to provide a visual difference to better Identify themselves with no difference in skill for what is at least half the human species is anything to be frowned upon, much less seen as "progressive". This is a game my friend, not a branch of government.

[Ghroznak]

You are missing a poll option...

 

Yes, but they can choose between scantily clad or dressed respectfully/have the same clothing options as males.

 

Wouldn't that just make more sense? Let the women (or men for that matter) who want to play female avatars decide themselves how they want them to be clothed. 

[Kamishirov]

Well, historically speaking, Muslims should and would be included, seeing as the Ottoman Empire was a rising power at the time and was almost exclusively Muslim. The Barbary Corsairs, the forerunners of and predecessors of Caribbean Piracy, would have been predominantly Muslim. However to identify them so in game would serve little purpose nor give any difference in appearance or gameplay.

 

As far as Races and Nationalities go, I have in fact stated that a more diverse option than just Nation A, B, and C, would be a nice change of pace,

 

And I really do not think that females in games, or catering to the playerbase is what is the issue with TW (in fact it is the exact opposite of listening to the players that has landed TW where they are now)

 

Gender, unlike faith, political party or otherwise, is hardly a "social construct", seeing as gender, again unlike faith, requires a genetic difference in chromosomes. 

 

Even Mount and Blade integrated female characters with resounding success while still keeping it historically accurate. The only reason I don't suggest their system for an MMO is to avoid where a gender (or skill class) becomes OP and players flock  to one or the other.

 

And lastly, I don't think implementing avatars, with the purpose to provide a visual difference to better Identify themselves with no difference in skill for what is at least half the human species is anything to be frowned upon, much less seen as "progressive". This is a game my friend, not a branch of government.

What type of ships did the Ottoman Navy have? Galleys? It might be interesting to see but I don't think that their ships would stand up to the modern sailing vessals of western nations.

 

I don't know much about the history, would be very interesting.

 

As for gender being a "social construct" I was in fact being sarcastic, it's the type of crap that leftists usually spew out, thought you were the sort to believe in that tripe but congrats on realizing that there are genetic differences between males and females. (Some people arn't so bright)

 

Mount & Blade had a fantasy setting if I'm not mistaken so historical accuracy or realism didn't need to be included, playing as a female character even added a higher difficulty factor and more challenge to the game so the introduction of female characters was a good thing. Completely different with a game such as this which is supposed to be completely historically accurate. I don't care if there are instances of 1-3 female captains of pirate ships or a handful of women who went 'in disguise' to serve as men in Navies.

 

Let's be real about this, even if females wanted a character in a Navy then they'll have to be disguised as men anyway so what's the point? As for pirates, just make a mod for it. The developers have enough on their plate as it is without the distraction of making female pirate captain avatars for a negligible female playerbase. (There's no way that this game is going to have a 50/50 divide amongst the genders, once again, let's be real)

[thomas aagaard]

This is going the route of Total War games isn't it? *sigh* Before that happens and the leftist hand wringers on this forum pressure the game devs to include their bad ideas let's speak up for reality and not make this a fantasy/alternate reality game please. I for one say NO to female characters in this game!

Then I guess we should not include the USA in the game? and each nation can only have their historical ships and colonies?

And then having a ship from 1700 in the game with a ship from 1810 should not be possible.

And how about the fact that our gunnery is way more accurate than it was in real life?

The list goes on.

 

This is and will be a fantasy game. / alternative history / Alternative reality...

[Robert Danforth]

But you don't understand, guy, the LEFTIST REVISIONIST HISTORY SOMETHING SOMETHING

[William the Drake]

You are missing a poll option...

 

Yes, but they can choose between scantily clad or dressed respectfully/have the same clothing options as males.

 

Wouldn't that just make more sense? Let the women (or men for that matter) who want to play female avatars decide themselves how they want them to be clothed. 

 

The idea here is to avoid having avatars, male or female, running around in the buff. A number of serious games have gone the way of less clothing and gotten some descent flack for it.

 

 

 

What type of ships did the Ottoman Navy have? Galleys? It might be interesting to see but I don't think that their ships would stand up to the modern sailing vessals of western nations.

 

 

The Ottomans had ships like the "modern" western powers, such as ships-of-the-line. They were a force to be reckoned with all the way until the end of WWI. However, they were famous for their galleys. Infamous actually, as the galleys where deadly in the Mediterranean.  However the Barbary corsairs and later Caribbean Corsairs preferred the Xebec design to the galley.

 

 

 Mount & Blade had a fantasy setting if I'm not mistaken so historical accuracy or realism didn't need to be included, playing as a female character even added a higher difficulty factor and more challenge to the game so the introduction of female characters was a good thing. Completely different with a game such as this which is supposed to be completely historically accurate. I don't care if there are instances of 1-3 female captains of pirate ships or a handful of women who went 'in disguise' to serve as men in Navies.

 

Let's be real about this, even if females wanted a character in a Navy then they'll have to be disguised as men anyway so what's the point? As for pirates, just make a mod for it. The developers have enough on their plate as it is without the distraction of making female pirate captain avatars for a negligible female playerbase. (There's no way that this game is going to have a 50/50 divide amongst the genders, once again, let's be real)

 

 

 

Modding an MMO is not something that is A: done often, B: easy to do, C: you are not really supposed to do. So modding of any sort really isn't an option here. This poll is here so that when the devs begin that leg of production (which is, agreed, waaaay down the road) that both male and female would be developed at the same time, if the community vote showed they wanted it to (which it is).

 

M&B was a fictional world, but with historically based factions, weapons, and armor. The Nords are in fact taken straight from history. And have you played the Vikings expansion? Takes place in Middle Age England, with historically accurate (mostly) factions, such as the Picts and Huns. Still have the Female option. (It's actually pretty good)

 

I also think you grossly underscore how open pirates were with captains. Females, Africans, escaped slaves; Pirate Ships were some of the first Democracies of the New World and cared little about who it was sailing with them. As long as they were good at sailing and fighting, and would abide by the code (in most cases) then they were good.  1-3 female pirate captains is hardly the mark. Anne Bonny and Mary Read were just the "headline" women pirates that garnered the most fame because of their last stand and the fact that we don't exactly know what happened to Anne. And there were also many more who went in disguised than "a handful". 

 

And lastly, again, this is a game and a game forum: there is little need for political slanders or religious mud-slinging. I'd much appreciate if you present your case without that nonsense. 

[Crankey]

I think this is strictly a personal player choice that shouldn't have any impact whatsoever on game play or mechanics. But should imho have a reasonable 'reality check' on the uniforms and costumes available.

 

Personally I don't want to see a crew of scantily clad Amazons led by a buxom wench wearing only a bikini top and a thong...  however there were recorded cases particularly in smaller rated/unrated ships of women having a battle stations position at a cannon. Perhaps the gunners wife etc. Not least also the merchant and pirate captains etc.

 

My wife plays PC games and yes she would choose a female avatar every time, I would pick male every time especially as I am in this game for the historical accuracy.

 

However I do know a LOT of male players who would rather be in third person watching a sexy ass wriggle in front of their eyes while they are in game. Yes they may be better turning the PC off and go out a little more but it is a driver for avatar selection.

 

Keep it sensible and I don't think there are any problems at all

[Reki]

since there were no women Captain's in the age of sail navies. 

 

 

That is lie. There was... at least among pirates.

 

voted 2-nd option for lulz. I believe that women should have choice in which style she will be dressed. Whore? why not, if she want it?

 

btw most epic in game art, including avatars, in my life i saw in Disciples).

 

 

Just look on this picture frame) I mean woman isn't perfect, but all other!

[jgzman]

Personally I don't want to see a crew of scantily clad Amazons led by a buxom wench wearing only a bikini top and a thong...  however there were recorded cases particularly in smaller rated/unrated ships of women having a battle stations position at a cannon. Perhaps the gunners wife etc. Not least also the merchant and pirate captains etc.

 

For myself, this is exactly what I want to see.

 

But I also want people to have the option for women dressed as man. Or dressed as a woman, but in sensible clothing. Or a ship crewed by shirtless Cossacks, their washboard abs glistening in the sun. (everyone knows that a light coat of olive oil just before going into battle is good for you) What's good for the goose is good for the gander, after all.

[Prater]

There are plenty of games out there like that jgzman. Naval Action shouldn't be one of them.

 

@Kamishirov
As for the whole leftist/progressive stuff, just because I have an inclusive mindset for a video game doesn't put me anywhere on the political spectrum so we can stop with the political bs.  This has nothing to do with "revistionist" history as some people are saying it does and everything to do with creating a video game that doesn't carry the baggage of the rest of gamer culture (that includes immaturity, sexism, seeing women as sex objects, and discrimination).

 

The NA forums do not discriminate against sex, religion, race and neither should the game itself.  Game-labs doesn't discriminate who they take their money from.  Why should we discriminate on player characters?

We also have to remember that NA is historical fiction.  This is why I think that having female characters is fine as long as they are dressed in period clothing.  This doesn't necessarily mean in a dress, male clothing is fine.

[Balsafer]

I do not want to see woman with barely anything on either 

[Anne_Bonny]

OK as the only Female that has spoken so far on this thread, and maybe one of the few playing the game (Been there since alpha release day 1 but not played as much as some guys that started when I did)

Include females... or including no one at all in avatars. if you have avatars, you must include both. We know as 100% FACT that there were woman on ships.

So will I play this game if I have a female avatar or not? Yeah, because like many other females I love history. And while the game represents history, it is a game first and foremost. If you alienate the females, you lose customers. Will guys stop playing if their are females? Most likely not. Will females not play if they cannot be a female? Most likely you will lose some. And in the end... it comes down to profits and a good game, not what gender an avatar has or does not have. 

Hell, lets just put stick figure avatars (Little round heads, stick body, legs, and arms) 

[NorthernWolves]

Yeah some of you are overthinking this way too much. I have a feeling if GL ever releases scantily clad female DLC we will all be in an uproar together. I think it's safe to say our collective nightmare is bikini clad pirate captains flying around in 1st rates.
 
Let's not start bringing in political crap for a problem that doesn't exist. We don't even have male avatars yet.
 

What type of ships did the Ottoman Navy have? Galleys?

They had a number of SoLs and a ton of 4th and 5th rates and overgunned privateers and their tenuous vassals the  Barbary Pirates were a huge problem for all the nations of Europe, who had all paid them tribute for decades, every last one. The tiny United States Navy changed that  I want them in game as AI at least so I can fight them.
 
Ottoman and Barbary ships

 
Algerian (Barbary) ships: