Ship Crafting RNG, Good or Bad?

[Thonys]

This says it all, it seems i am not the only one who has his doubts,  investment for all the balloons  is just, and almost a FAKE  expectation on investment 

 i even want to sell my shipyard and make just a normal one in my hometown. 

i already gave up this rng stuff.

a shipbuilder level 50 is worth NOTHING 

no logic .... this is a sign on the wall ... RNG? .. its bad...

 

 

i would propose some more depth to the shipbuilder, the builders of ships have to grind to level 50  first to discover that level 50 gains nothing special. !

 

perhaps a perk master shipbuilder [ cost 4] who has a 67% chance of making a 5/5 at level 50 crafting and give a 26% chance on a 5/5 on level 35 crafting. 

level  50 is just a dead end at the moment give the player a meaning for progress on crafting.

were perk + level 50 gives 25% chance for a 5/5 at the hometown (rng factor 50%)

were perk +level 50 gives 67% chance for a 5/5 at a capturable port (rng factor 75%)

 

were perk+ level 35 gives a 18% chance for a 5/5 at the hometown (rng factor 50%)

were perk+ level 35 gives a 47 % chance for a 5/5 at a cap port ( rng factor 75%)

 

were no perk is just random rng

Edited November 20, 2018 by Thonys

[Atreides]

Devs tried something a while back to allow crafters the ability to control quality of ships, it was called "Fine Wood"  I thought it could have worked with tweaking...

But the sodium level went off the scale, and the devs just abandoned the idea.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Atreides

[LIONOFWALES]

2 hours ago, Tiedemann said:

I like the RNG in crafting, made it interesting again. Also very rewarding for the crafter.

Yes however RNG with upgrade slots? I could see a random perk... but not with something so very vital to game play capacity as upgrade slots.

[LIONOFWALES]

32 minutes ago, Atreides said:

Devs tried something a while back to allow crafters the ability to control quality of ships, it was called "Fine Wood"  I thought it could have worked with tweaking...

But the sodium level went off the scale, and the devs just abandoned the idea.

I say no more qualities of ships... once crafted, the ship should have 5 upgrade slots up high so that we can kit the ship out for the roll needed, this way no one could say... that player just won because they have more upgrade slots than me... players would be more likely to attack in open world if they feel that they have a winning chance... as the game stands only the very wealthy or powerful have access to the better ships.

I feel that where upgrades are concerned, we should be able to fit the said ship out however we want to, with the large number of upgrades available for tailoring a ship having RNG in a skill based game just doesn't fit, at least where ship building is concerned.

RNG just doesn't really belong in a game like this in my opinion.

[LIONOFWALES]

3 hours ago, Slim McSauce said:

How about keep the crafting RNG for ships, but add the ability to refit your ships at a shipyard to add more upgrade slots. How would this work?
You craft a ship, 3/5 slots. Instead of that being the end of it you can put your ship under refit, add some materials for for some lh you add 1 slot to the ship and you can do this as many times up to 5 slots.

Why would this be good? With enough effort from crafters, you can take a captured POS and turn it into a fairly decent combat ship over time.
You capture the ship with 1 slot out of 5, you work on it until it gets 5 slots. Boom, crafters are rewarded for their efforts (REAL efforts, not luck)

This is acceptable to me... at least giving the capacity to gain upgrade slots at a cost later.

[LIONOFWALES]

Shall we consider RNG in ship crafting like...

Bonus thickness at no loss to speed. or extra speed, or rigging quality, just a basic random buff instead of random upgrade slots.

Random upgrade slots, just seems silly.

[LIONOFWALES]

3 hours ago, Tiedemann said:

I like the RNG in crafting, made it interesting again. Also very rewarding for the crafter.

Yes and I have experienced this also... its a very good feeling to finally craft a ship worth something, however this is where the problem lies... I feel like the game would be better if I could craft a ship knowing exactly what I would get, I know this is just a game, but I feel that if a ship wright knows how to build his ship the ship shall be built well, and the commander commanding said ship and equipping said ship should not be subjugated regarding how many upgrades he can fit because how the crafter crafted said ship, It just doesn't really make very much sense that's all.

All ships should have 5 upgrade slots in my opinion.

Edited November 20, 2018 by LIONOFWALES

[LIONOFWALES]

3 hours ago, Tiedemann said:

I like the RNG in crafting, made it interesting again. Also very rewarding for the crafter.

So please explain... do you think RNG in crafting is good for the game?

Or do you just enjoy the gambling excitement of the RNG in crafting.

Edited November 20, 2018 by LIONOFWALES

[Wilhelm von Seydlitz]

4 hours ago, LIONOFWALES said:

All ships should have 5 upgrade slots in my opinion.

"and all ships must always be gold and produce for free " 
 

I agree with @Tiedemann "I like the RNG in crafting, made it interesting again. Also very rewarding for the crafter."

 

[Farrago]

I’ve never tried making my “living” as a crafter but I’ve always just crafted my own ships. I would rather NOT have RNG in the process but make it more skill and effort based.

Permanent mods should be built in at the time of crafting or otherwise take a ship out of service and put it in a shipyard and invest labor and time to install upgrades.

It would be great to see ship building as a specialized and profitable career choice in game. 

[AeRoTR]

RNG is shit. 

I can accept some rng for casuals. But the shipbuilders should specialize in classes, with additional perks, obtainable by experience only. 

So the shipbuilder with 50 frig built, gains some level with frigs, his chance to craft a good ship increase, 100 or more frigs, more chance, at some point he becomes "master frigate builder", ability to select a refit for the frigate with a high chance and with additional wood requirement. 

This gives a meaning to ship crafting. It feels fair and rewarding. 

 

[Cmdr RideZ]

Ships are expensive, none dares to lose ships. Turns out we then don't have enough PvP. People don't need many ships. Economy has hard time.

RNG is a fix to create a need to craft, make veteran players to craft more ships, support player driven economy.

[Archaos]

8 hours ago, Atreides said:

Devs tried something a while back to allow crafters the ability to control quality of ships, it was called "Fine Wood"  I thought it could have worked with tweaking...

But the sodium level went off the scale, and the devs just abandoned the idea.

Although fine woods allowed control of quality of ships, the fact that they were not readily available for all caused an imbalance. Now some say this is good as it provides a reason to fight for control for fine wood ports, all that actually happened was people created more alts to give them access to the fine woods.

Personally I do not mind RNG crafting, the odd chance of getting a special ship is good. It also creates a supply of cheap ships as the large clans and rich players craft large numbers of ships while trying to get that perfect 5/5 gold ship, and these surplus ships are sold off relatively cheaply. If all ships were crafted exactly to the specification you wanted then there would not be as many ships crafted and the availability of cheap ships would dry up.

[Draymoor]

1 hour ago, AeRoTR said:

RNG is shit. 

I can accept some rng for casuals. But the shipbuilders should specialize in classes, with additional perks, obtainable by experience only. 

So the shipbuilder with 50 frig built, gains some level with frigs, his chance to craft a good ship increase, 100 or more frigs, more chance, at some point he becomes "master frigate builder", ability to select a refit for the frigate with a high chance and with additional wood requirement. 

This gives a meaning to ship crafting. It feels fair and rewarding. 

 

+1

It seems so simple and much more natural and organic way of progressing. The more you do something the better you become at it, instead of sometimes winning the ship lottery. 

[Archaos]

3 minutes ago, Draymoor said:

+1

It seems so simple and much more natural and organic way of progressing. The more you do something the better you become at it, instead of sometimes winning the ship lottery. 

The problem with such a system is that eventually nearly everyone becomes a master builder for all classes and that is the only type produced making it impossible for anyone entering the ship crafting arena to be able to sell lower standard vessels.

If you were to have such a system you would need to severely restrict specialization so for example you would only be able to specialize in crafting one type of ship e.g. master crafter in L'Oceans, and once you specialized that was it unless you reset your specialization and started again. I am sure most people would hate such a system especially as many players craft their own ships.

[AeRoTR]

@Archaos why not increase need to craft many ship for bonus and rank increase.

50 Oceans, more chance for good ship. 

100 Ocean better chance for good ship. 

150 Ocean select refit and more chance to get the refit and slots, with increased wood resource requirement. 

Only few will be master Ocean crafter etc. 

Even more ships required to advance for smaller classes. 

How about this? 

[Thonys]

3 hours ago, Farrago said:

I’ve never tried making my “living” as a crafter but I’ve always just crafted my own ships. I would rather NOT have RNG in the process but make it more skill and effort based.

Permanent mods should be built in at the time of crafting or otherwise take a ship out of service and put it in a shipyard and invest labor and time to install upgrades.

It would be great to see ship building as a specialized and profitable career choice in game. 

i totally agree on

i would propose some more depth to the shipbuilder, the builders of ships have to grind to level 50  first to discover that level 50 gains nothing special. !

it just sucks in the end!

after building 150 frigates you still build,  huh....>  standard frigates .....(that's not a progression,.. that sucks) at the moment it seems anybody can build ships 

even in the days of sail, there were master shipbuilders who could make the finest ships and there were just common shipbuilders who could make fishing vessels as there specialty.

perhaps a perk master shipbuilder [ cost 4] who has a 67% chance of making a 5/5 at level 50 crafting and give a 26% chance on a 5/5 on level 35 crafting. 

level  50 is just a dead end at the moment give the player a meaning for progress on crafting.

were perk + level 50 gives 25% chance for a 5/5 at the hometown (rng factor 50%)

were perk +level 50 gives 67% chance for a 5/5 at a capturable port (rng factor 75%)

 

were perk+ level 35 gives a 18% chance for a 5/5 at the hometown (rng factor 50%)

were perk+ level 35 gives a 47 % chance for a 5/5 at a cap port ( rng factor 75%)

 

were no + perk is just random rng

 

я полностью согласен

я бы предложил еще кое-что для судостроителя, строители кораблей должны измельчить до уровня 50 сначала, чтобы обнаружить, что уровень 50 не получает ничего особенного. !

это просто отстой в конце!

после постройки 150 фрегатов вы все еще строите, да ....> стандартные фрегаты ..... (это не прогрессия, .. это отстой) на данный момент кажется, что кто-то может строить корабли

даже в дни парусного спорта, были мастер-кораблестроители, которые могли заниматься рыболовными судами, как там специальность.

возможно, мастер-мастер-кораблестроитель, у которого 75% -ный шанс сделать 5/5 на 50-й стадии разработки и дать 35-процентный шанс на 5/5 на 35-й разработке.

Уровень 50 сейчас всего лишь тупик.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Thonys

[Archaos]

23 minutes ago, AeRoTR said:

@Archaos why not increase need to craft many ship for bonus and rank increase.

50 Oceans, more chance for good ship. 

100 Ocean better chance for good ship. 

150 Ocean select refit and more chance to get the refit and slots, with increased wood resource requirement. 

Only few will be master Ocean crafter etc. 

Even more ships required to advance for smaller classes. 

How about this? 

As I said such a system would be okay if crafters were only allowed to specialize in one type of vessel, but it would mean once you had a few people specialized in a certain ship it would become harder for new crafters wishing to specialize in that ship to sell their ships as everyone would go to the master crafter for the best ships. So you would still have an imbalance.

I think many people would not like to be limited in what type of ships they could craft. Maybe they could have a system where the more you craft a certain type of ship the greater the percentage probability of getting a high quality becomes. 

I still think some RNG in crafting adds some spice to it, if not you get to the stage where everyone is sailing a 5/5 gold ship.

[Ivan87]

 

Naval action has a disease, and it is the RNG. Crafting, doubloons ... dedicate hours of your life to play a game whose reward depends on the RNG.

[Thonys]

14 minutes ago, Ivan87 said:

 

Naval action has a disease, and it is the RNG. Crafting, doubloons ... dedicate hours of your life to play a game whose reward depends on the RNG.

yes its a developers solution with a twist (its a tool) 

but i agree if the captain has no doubloon in his hold you should not find any ...

[Tiedemann]

If you don't like RNG because you think it is unfair google: "Normal distribution" and become enlightened.

If you get it your way here then your next attack at RNG will be at the drop for upgrade and skill books, and in the end we are all sailing around in identical ships meta built, and your complaining about that.. I can't see a happy ending here 😕

[Aster]

I like the RNG, it has no negative effect you can only get better ships out of it. Also the people with lots of resources will spend them and sell the ships with traits they do not want giving the less rich of the server cheaper ships. Without the RNG in crafting people generally only craft the ship they need and no more leading to no players selling ships.

Side note, building ships outside the reinforce zone allegedly gives you better chances, further enticing people to move out of the R zone. 

Edited November 20, 2018 by Aster

[Draymoor]

2 hours ago, Archaos said:

The problem with such a system is that eventually nearly everyone becomes a master builder for all classes and that is the only type produced making it impossible for anyone entering the ship crafting arena to be able to sell lower standard vessels.

If you were to have such a system you would need to severely restrict specialization so for example you would only be able to specialize in crafting one type of ship e.g. master crafter in L'Oceans, and once you specialized that was it unless you reset your specialization and started again. I am sure most people would hate such a system especially as many players craft their own ships.

'Nearly everyone' is relative, depends on how many ships it takes to become a master of each class. Also with building higher quality could come a higher cost, so you could build any quality you want as long as you have progressed enough but building a lower quality ship would cost less. The higher costs of higher quality would means everyone attempting to enter the market can still craft for players  that can afford to pay less. You can produce lower quality ships for a larger market. Crafting your own ships currently is not a guarantee of getting anything better than a standard ship anyway, so you could still craft your own. If some had crafted hundreds of each rate of ship, I don't see a problem with them being a master of each type. Producing the top quality ocean or any other ship could cost 3 times more than a standard one, so producing standard ships would still be a viable option. 
Honestly I'm not sure if it would be better than the current system, perhaps not, but it definitely seems a lot more interesting and immersive than randomly hitting the ship quality jackpot. Could just be my strong hate for RNG is general, too many games use way too much RNG. 

[traitorous mctraitoro]

16 hours ago, LIONOFWALES said:

 

I like that people craft ships just to make 5/5s and sell the others at what pretty much just covers Thier costs to craft another. Take RNG away this won't happen anymore.

If people can craft 5/5 straight up whatever the cost, they will just do that, them boom the poor people/newbs/lone players, will never afford them and get left behind in worthless 3/5s (only worthless because everyone else has 5/5s).

Edited November 20, 2018 by traitorous mctraitoro

[Christendom]

RNG + crazy doubloons costs for line ships is absurd.