Rubbing Damage needs to Return

[Slim McSauce]

Small ships parking in front of large ships to stop them, or hugging under their guns is dumb.

[AeRoTR]

I do agree, there needs to be some damage, proportional to mass. A small ship can not ram into a bigger ship. A punishing but not too harsh damage needs to come.

Edited November 19, 2018 by AeRoTR

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, AeRoTR said:

I do agree, there needs to be some damage, proportional to mass. A small ship can not ram into a bigger ship. A punishing but not too harsh damage needs to come.

and not ramming,  but staying hugged up or parked infront of a much larger ship going 7 knots needs to be punished, it's just dumb.

[AeRoTR]

Hugging is kind of ramming if any side is pushing the other.

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, AeRoTR said:

Hugging is kind of ramming if any side is pushing the other.

I know I mean where the abuse of ram damage is when it's high speed for huge to the side like a galley ship. That's what should be avoided and what should be acomplished is consistent rubbing damage over time to little ships know to gtfo the way and not park or hug under a larger ship.

[Farrago]

I’m totally against rubbing damage. 

[AeRoTR]

1 minute ago, Farrago said:

I’m totally against rubbing damage. 

Reason ?

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, AeRoTR said:

Reason ?

like always they have no reason, it's just a personal whim to them to state their feelings without any sort of structure.

Why?

Because it's impossible to defend non-existent rubbing damage because it makes no sense. A 5th rate parking in front of a SOL going 6 knots into it's side....it doesn't take much imagination to put that together.

Edited November 19, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Farrago]

12 minutes ago, AeRoTR said:

Reason ?

 

10 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

like always they have no reason, it's just a personal whim to them to state their feelings without any sort of structure.

Why?

Because it's impossible to defend non-existent rubbing damage because it makes no sense. A 5th rate parking in front of a SOL going 6 knots into it's side....it doesn't take much imagination to put that together.

Sorry. Too subtle humor, I guess. 

 +1 on damage from ship to ship contact. 

[Aster]

Its sort of a thing in game already. If a large ship rams a smaller ship hard enough you can reload shock them.

[Slim McSauce]

9 minutes ago, Aster said:

Its sort of a thing in game already. If a large ship rams a smaller ship hard enough you can reload shock them.

not the same as a small ship parking in front of a large one to slow it down, or rubbing the side to hug under its guns or push it up wind

[Barbancourt]

Ramming should cause leaks

[RedNeckMilkMan]

1 hour ago, Barbancourt said:

Ramming should cause leaks

It used to and people just rammed each other to death.

There should be a more nuanced approach such as big ships hitting little ships crew shocks continued contact does armor damage extended contact caused loss of guns and leaks. This should be based on weight of ships (which needs to be redone since there are some terrible match ups) the larger the difference the more severe the effects. As ships approach similar weights/size the effects of ramming/hugging should be minimal.

[Sir Lancelot Holland]

Generally speaking, where a large ship collides with a smaller ship the Captain of the smaller ship has made a mistake, it is the responsibility of overtaking ships to give way, and, smaller more maneuverable ships are more able to avoid collisions at sea where larger ships are involved, (the exception being that a steam ship gives way to a sailing ship) It may of course be that suction will pull a smaller ship in if they get close enough, see White Star v Admiralty 1912,  it's why Replenishment at sea is a risky business. 

Mass and Velocity usually dictate the level of damage to both ships, with the smaller ship suffering more at higher speed, damage to sails and rigging is inevitable, as is a degree of flooding, (unless the speed was very low) more so with smaller ships. 

Any collision would have resulted in either an attempt at boarding, or, an attempt to disengage while damage was assessed and emergency repairs organised, it took time and manpower to patch under waterline damage, they had to use canvass over large holes or at least slow down to reduce water intake to a level where the pumps could cope and more effective repairs could be made. 

How do we employ this information in game without a lot of drama? There are mathematical formulae that are quite detailed and it is possible to determine if a ship will founder or not, Thomas Andrews, an Harland and Wolfe Engineer, worked out Titanic would float for about 2 and a half hours, his calculations were tragically accurate, Capt E J Smith was aware of that within an hour of the collision.   The Captain of the Andrea Doria would have known much more quickly without such calculations, and, that it would be very fast. 

On balance, I think given that most Captains in game will lose ships on a regular basis in combat, loss, through collision, or, natural causes could be, simply, too much, even, if realistically, it would be the logical outcome of such a collision. Sometimes, in games, it is better to put aside cold hard reality, in favour of playability. 

 

[Archaos]

1 hour ago, Sir Lancelot Holland said:

Generally speaking, where a large ship collides with a smaller ship the Captain of the smaller ship has made a mistake, it is the responsibility of overtaking ships to give way, and, smaller more maneuverable ships are more able to avoid collisions at sea where larger ships are involved, (the exception being that a steam ship gives way to a sailing ship) It may of course be that suction will pull a smaller ship in if they get close enough, see White Star v Admiralty 1912,  it's why Replenishment at sea is a risky business. 

Mass and Velocity usually dictate the level of damage to both ships, with the smaller ship suffering more at higher speed, damage to sails and rigging is inevitable, as is a degree of flooding, (unless the speed was very low) more so with smaller ships. 

Any collision would have resulted in either an attempt at boarding, or, an attempt to disengage while damage was assessed and emergency repairs organised, it took time and manpower to patch under waterline damage, they had to use canvass over large holes or at least slow down to reduce water intake to a level where the pumps could cope and more effective repairs could be made. 

How do we employ this information in game without a lot of drama? There are mathematical formulae that are quite detailed and it is possible to determine if a ship will founder or not, Thomas Andrews, an Harland and Wolfe Engineer, worked out Titanic would float for about 2 and a half hours, his calculations were tragically accurate, Capt E J Smith was aware of that within an hour of the collision.   The Captain of the Andrea Doria would have known much more quickly without such calculations, and, that it would be very fast. 

On balance, I think given that most Captains in game will lose ships on a regular basis in combat, loss, through collision, or, natural causes could be, simply, too much, even, if realistically, it would be the logical outcome of such a collision. Sometimes, in games, it is better to put aside cold hard reality, in favour of playability. 

 

There is a big difference between coming alongside and rubbing as opposed to a collision. Many small ships and boats go alongside much larger vessels and remain pressed alongside without any damage, just look at tugs and pilot vessels alongside super tankers. So it all depends upon how they come alongside, at a shallow angle matching speed till they touch and then press alongside will cause minimum damage and the ships can remain like that for long periods. With sailing ships this may be complicated by rigging entanglement but it is still possible.

The problem in the game is that the smaller vessel for some reason is able to turn the larger vessel or even sit perpendicularly across his bow without receiving damage and no be swamped. 

Also, although in reality a small vessel could lay alongside a larger one and be under its guns, it would not stop it from receiving musket fire and being boarded even at greater speeds, and this is not represented in the game. They tried high speed boarding and it was so broken they soon changed it back.