Muskets need to go

[AeRoTR]

@Hethwill the Red Duke correct not need to be red sail. But look at the screenshot, what a coincidence it is all red sails.

Firepower never did this, I did not know this. 220 crew with Muskets / Marines / Boarding Guns, never did 130 kills against boarding moded ships with same or more crew.

I know a bit around boarding and muskets + marines + etc. did like 40 damage maximum on similiar crew ship.

@admin can you please fix these muskets mods ? No reason to play pvp, if boarding is 1777 whatever muskets = win against other ship with all boarding mods + book of 5 miserable ring  

You have nerfed the "shooting (old muskets)" skill book, but those new mods are %100 or %200 more deadly, and combine them with  "Marines"+"Shooting"+"1777 musket etc" it is devastating. So you have nerf the ordinary Joe's "shooting" book, leaving him more vulnerable to these rare musket mod users.

How is a ship with muskets can also have more muskets which  is sea musket /1777 etc. and they shoot defending enemy to kill hundreds of them. Are these guns  from Star Wars or Terminator movie ? Laser Muskets, so 1 shot kills 3-4 man? or if they have 150 men with muskets, shoot at the enemy crew of 300 men, they are able to kill 130 men in 1 salvo ? 

Don't you have the game Ultimate General, just tell me when troops shoot each other from 100 meters with muskets, can they kill half of the enemy troops ?

Edited December 11, 2018 by AeRoTR

[admin]

muskets are op. but will be fixed only after NEXT patch that we plan in the beginning of next week.

[Hethwill]

Like the french buccaneers usually said during the 17th century, seven well handled fusils are worth a cannon. I wonder why they would say this.

[traitorous mctraitoro]

finally a reply from someone who doesn't just quote Frenchman about how amazing muskets even though you can only use them in boarding, making said quotes completely invalid. considering French tactic was to shoot all the officers on the deck when they closed in range. not that anyone memorable died this way, as apposed to nelson who got shot from boarding muskets that reloaded every 15 seconds.

fyi, if I tell my crew to brace, why the hell do they decide to stand in the middle of the deck perfectly still in the line of sight of the marksmen, who seem to have carbines instead of muskets.

[derekticus]

@Admin   By changing Muskets to an all powerful element in Boarding actions, you are breaking your game.  Boarding actions in this game were supposedly to be a tactical battle between Players, using a "Rock, Paper, Scissors" style mechanic.  In this way Boarding actions had elements of fun:  Players battled using tactical strategy and their wits to "out-maneuver" or "trick" their fellow Player to gain an advantage.  BUT, by suddenly changing the mechanic to "Muskets ALWAYS win especially if you have a Musket Upgrade", you have effectively destroyed this part of the game.  Anyone who has a Musket Upgrade suddenly WILL win the boarding action REGARDLESS of what their opponent does.  In a beautiful game like this one, you want SKILL to be the factor that allows one Player to prevail over another.  When you remove skill and replace it with luck, then you game is weakened and less people will be interested in playing.  As the game stands now, the lucky Players who find and use Musket Upgrades WIN.  The higher skilled Player will lose if he/she does not have a Musket Upgrade.    Additionally, by doing so you are weakening the other great part of the game:  the 1 v 1 sailing duel; for if I have a Musket Upgrade, then I have little interest in actually battling and beating my opponent through normal Combat.  Instead, in Combat, I will merely want to ram and initiate a boarding action between us, knowing that I have an Ace in the hole.  

Best to either completely remove the Musket Upgrades from the game, or give them a HUGE down-grading in power, or have them drop frequently as the most common item so that ALL players who want to can have them.   In any case, you once again need to restore balance to your game.

Playing "Rock, Paper, Scissors" is no fun if your opponent holds "Super Rock" that crushes ALL.

The more you increase the chances of a new Player getting nuked by an experienced Player the very first time they sail out of their Nations Capitol, the less returning "Second Day" Players you will have.

[Barbancourt]

13 minutes ago, derekticus said:

Playing "Rock, Paper, Scissors" is no fun if your opponent holds "Super Rock" that crushes ALL.

 

Playing "rock, paper, scissors" is never fun.  This is one of the areas of the game that needs a complete rethink and overhaul. 

[Sir Texas Sir]

Remember the LRQ is still a 6th rate so it follows 6th rate musket rules (what that 50%) whole 5th rates get less (20% crew?).  That is whey it is so more noticeable with the LRQ.  Again it should be a 5th rate base off its crew count and balance of the mods.

most mods need to be allowed to not be stacked too.  Allow one mod and one ship knowledge only one that type. 

Obly allow on e of the three big books.  You can have gunnery but now ship handleing or 5 rings.  If you want 5 rings you can’t have art of ship handling or gunnery.

[admin]

On 12/11/2018 at 1:24 PM, admin said:

muskets are op. but will be fixed only after NEXT patch that we plan in the beginning of next week.

as patch has been stabilized we plan to update the muskets within next couple of hot fixes. 

[traitorous mctraitoro]

37 minutes ago, admin said:

as patch has been stabilized we plan to update the muskets within next couple of hot fixes. 

Nice :).

[Njord]

52 minutes ago, admin said:

as patch has been stabilized we plan to update the muskets within next couple of hot fixes. 

Please consider adding some list in and / or outside of the game with all skillbooks and perm mods available, so we can compare them more easily and have a better overview. This would help a lot with determining the quality of a book / mod.

Something like this but up to date. Thank you for considering.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Sovereign

[Angus MacDuff]

Well, I just fell victim to the crappy boarding mechanic.  A battle I was winning against a player.  Beating his armour down..had more crew...He rammed and held down the "G" button.  Insta win, cause he was loaded with boarding mods.  Talk about game breaking.  I don't mind losing a well fought battle and I can even accept a gank, but this ridiculous boarding mechanic is morale destroying.  I was actually accelerating, going from negative to positive speed, but he had that G button held down.  We always say "just don't get boarded", but when his only intent is to ram you, its kinda hard, and not even a close approximation to realistic.  I don't care what you say about DLC or P2W, this is the worst aspect of the game.

[Palatinose]

5 hours ago, Angus MacDuff said:

Well, I just fell victim to the crappy boarding mechanic.  A battle I was winning against a player.  Beating his armour down..had more crew...He rammed and held down the "G" button.  Insta win, cause he was loaded with boarding mods.  Talk about game breaking.  I don't mind losing a well fought battle and I can even accept a gank, but this ridiculous boarding mechanic is morale destroying.  I was actually accelerating, going from negative to positive speed, but he had that G button held down.  We always say "just don't get boarded", but when his only intent is to ram you, its kinda hard, and not even a close approximation to realistic.  I don't care what you say about DLC or P2W, this is the worst aspect of the game.

I feel you. But overall it's just a valid tactics as hugging, mast sniping etc.. It feels bad because one has the impression the enemy can do plenty of mistakes and will slowly pay, while one makes a single mistake and is down.

[traitorous mctraitoro]

Damn, have you been sleeping

[Hethwill]

Example

Nock Gun

is amount 0.2 - that's 20% of the crew ( armed with firepower ) at accuracy 3

I wouldn't believe Nock guns to be that common or even uncommon  

They were fairly rare, unreliable and prone to misfire, very slow reload ( although epic when they fire all barrels ) and non-standard.

I'd say a couple per ship, not 20% of the musketry crew.

[Licinio Chiavari]

I do think muskets in this shape need to go.

Still the real point are not the muskets, but the mix of being totally OP + extreme rarity giving an huge edge to those having them + no real counter.

IMO we need a

1) reworked scissor-paper-rock first
2) and then the different mods to "sub-specialize" a boarder
3) coupled with adequate mods available to any player devoting sometime.

 

1. example:
Attack/counterattack strong vs brace/fire grenades; medium vs. fire deck guns/Muskets; weak vs. defend
Fire Grenades strong vs defense/FireDeckGuns; medium vs. brace; weak vs. muskets/attack
Muskets strong vs defense/firegrenades; medium vs. attack; weak vs. brace/attack
FireDeckGuns strong vs. muskets/defense; medium vs. attack; weak vs. FireGrenades/brace.
Defend strong vs attack; weak vs. FireDeckGuns/FireGrenades/Muskets; Ineffective on Brace

This way we would have always a reply to any action: even buffed Muskets could be hit hard by, example Fire Deck Guns.

2.

The final effect of the best FireDeckGun mod against the wrong move have to be the same of (or similar) to the best musket mod available.
If best muskets kills 100 vs defend. So best FireDeckGun mod should kill 100 on Muskets. Likewise best Grenade should kill 100 on FireDeckGuns (granted my above example of rework).
Still, likewise, attack mods need to be reworked making possible and "easy" to destroy enemy unprepped/ungeared crew also with attack.

Therefore a boarder would or specialize more (using like now muskets) choosing grenades and/or FDG mods... or he will have to devote even more slots to be superior.

3.

Best mods in every category (like Redoutable for musket) could stay random rare drop. Like Improved extant for speed.
Second tier (like 1777 muskets) should be craftable and/or buyable with doubs (like Copper/NHR for speed).
Third and lower tiers craftable/buyable/easy drops (like lower speed mods).

 

Bottom line should remain that a full boarder full prepped would rightfully smash (aside silly errors) any similar crewed ship without boarding/defensive mod/book and unprepped still giving more options both to boarding set ups, accessibility to these options and some counters (like people fitting with barricades + best Fire deck gun mods to counter a musket boarder).

 

Edited December 22, 2018 by Licinio Chiavari

[traitorous mctraitoro]

Imo we need no op boarding mods. Not somethings killing 100 crew as you suggest. Making it yet again rediculas. As for changing boarding, a complete overhaul would be nice, untill then I am avoiding it, not too fun for me.

Now ofc your going to say muskets are fine, because all you do is insta-wins against newbs at kpr. Not that I'm complaining it's still a mechanic. Fortunately Devs see how rediculas it is and are changing them.

Edited December 22, 2018 by traitorous mctraitoro

[Hethwill]

20 minutes ago, traitorous mctraitoro said:

Imo we need no op boarding mods.

not only boarding, but also speed, sail forces, reload, thickness... etc

[Licinio Chiavari]

29 minutes ago, traitorous mctraitoro said:

Imo we need no op boarding mods. Not somethings killing 100 crew as you suggest. Making it yet again rediculas. As for changing boarding, a complete overhaul would be nice, untill then I am avoiding it, not too fun for me.

Now ofc your going to say muskets are fine, because all you do is insta-wins against newbs at kpr. Not that I'm complaining it's still a mechanic. Fortunately Devs see how rediculas it is and are changing them.

As always you cant read what I wrote.

A. there's plenty of OP mods in all part of the game.

B. Boarding is a far more real mechanic than mast sniping (etc...): Would you consider "realistic" an Age of sail naval game with boarding not viable??

C. I killed far more at KPR without muskets.

D. It's insta-win of you miss barricade+handcombat. Otherwise an Hercules full crew can safely disengage a full boarder Requin with muskets.

[z4ys]

Mods and stacking unbalance the game.

Edited December 22, 2018 by z4ys

[Licinio Chiavari]

20 minutes ago, z4ys said:

Mods and stacking unbalance the game.

True.

And after last patches nothing (contrary to espected) has been done.

I can still stack clock (or sexant) copper and NHR getting an huge +9.5% speed... I can not simply stack NHR and crooked or copper and lead sheathing or cartagena and light planking: who'd ever do in any case?

So keeping the gear gap huge between casual/newer/poorer captains and rich vets.