Cannot progress on War server

[Farrago]

@reiser you have made some valid points. There are some routes to slow success but they require more understanding of the game than is explained by the tutorial and just doing low level missions.

The best advice I can give: Shout out in nation chat asking if there is anyone willing to sail with you for a while to help you learn the ropes. If you get no response, try it again later. Be ready with Teamspeak or Discord to communicate with them. I know that at least in the Dutch nation you would get some help but I bet your nation will help out as well. I wish you the very best of luck. 

[Macjimm]

It's really hard to design products by focus groups. A lot of times, people don't know what they want until you show it to them.

The challenge with this type of game is that the Devs can't show us all of the ways to play the game, much of it is left for players to discover.  It's an Open World without a written recipe for success.   The nature of NA is dynamic and variable, plus the players have diverse values and styles. 

Many changes, that could be made, will adversely affect many  players.   Please some, but piss others off.

Overall I - 

• see lots of trade ships,   
• avoid the capital when it is being raped,   
• never grind, 
• am making more by trading now than before the update,   
• am finding valuable trade goods,
• don't mind the magic teleport fees  or the taxes, and 
• have met a lot of great people.

There are many things that I would change, and things I think are very important to retain.  But I'm not going to threaten to quit to get my way.  I also am not certain that satisfying all of my preferences will ensure that new players join and veterans remain. 

Making changes because a great number of players voice their opinion will not guarantee that the game is improved.

Edited November 19, 2018 by Macjimm

[Stars and Stripes]

I am a real new player. 200 hours and I just don't agree with anything you post here.

On 11/17/2018 at 7:20 PM, reiser said:

And before people post their hate responses know this. I played a LOT of the game at early access launch, I also had a dozen or so friends that bought the game based on my recommendations at the time. But because of the above bullets, none of them play anymore.  One of my friends said "I'd rather have a coronary than lose over and over again. I quit".

You make a very bold statement about how you can't do this and can't do that.

I completed the tutorial and had 120 crew.

I had a load of reps and money. I also play solo.

I left  Charleston and opened Shroud.

I sail from there in a basic cutter doing missions and trying to fight other players sometimes in a snow.

I have made 200000 reals and  850 Dabloons.

I have a stock of great mod drops and other bits and pieces. I have now opened a couple of more ports and have tried some limited trade runs.

This game is a blast, just don't expect everything to be given to you and expect to work for your progress.

Best game I have ever played.

[admin]

12 hours ago, BuckleUpBones said:

You’re too late admin, “can’t go all concern like now!” being so close to release (and rushing too).

Game already had a steep learning curve, now with all missions difficulty level increasing at such a rate, it has turn the learning curve into a momentous mountain of effort, you’ve promoted this.

No room for causals and solo’s, the game is clan based, simulated hardcore sailing, ship of the line gameplay, you’ve promoted this.

Low rewarding missions and missions setup to push new players, all players, out into the OW and to push them into long journey’s to create more PvP content, you’ve promoted this. 

NPCs suited for low level players to raid removed so they can’t resource themselves locally, forcing them afar, thus adding to PvP content, you’re promoted this.

The concept of a single shallow water conflict zone, and with such a concentration zone, that only vets can survive in, you’ve promoted this.

Above facts are in all the posts since patch 27 as feedback, and you're stuck with vets and there hardcore themes and ignored any post that didn't conform, you’ve promoted this too.

With all the hardcore themes, which of that you have pushed, It would be hypocritical of you to show any anxiety or apprehension now.

The game state is of your promotion. 😊

 

 

ehm sorry i think you misread my statement.

I would love to help this guy to sink lynxes in his cutter with ease with just 3 turns and 6 broadsides in under 3 mins  (as i have to level up a new account every month to never lose touch of new player experience). But i would love to help him by reviewing his style of play and helping him to improve it. 

I have NO PLANS WHATSOEVER to dumb down the game to the so called mass market appeal and casual crowd. This game is not for everyone. And some people will not like it. 

We have no anxiety at all. Peace server is tranquil and does not have a single problem described in the post. He is a Peace server player but he is ruining his experience on the war server for no apparent reason. There is no ganking and there is zero seal clubbing on the Peace server. 

 

 

[Cmdr RideZ]

1 hour ago, admin said:

(as i have to level up a new account every month to never lose touch of new player experience)

This is difficult as you know already how the game works. It is very hard to make yourself to learn and try new ways to fail.

Here are some I know people had issues with.

1. They start firing from long distance. Flat ships that are hard to hit between waves. Bots are accurate, decrease accuracy even more for 6-7th rate missions? Bots also snipe your stern from long distance, they could start sailing towards you sooner.

2. They don't follow wind and soon in irons. They don't know how to use manual sails and bot is wrecking their ship. Was this in tutorial?

3. They sail too slow next to bot and get boarded. Create a delay between boarding allowed and bot actually pulling? High ranked bots having shorter delay.

[Celtiberofrog]

49 minutes ago, admin said:

I have NO PLANS WHATSOEVER to dumb down the game to the so called mass market appeal and casual crowd. This game is not for everyone. And some people will not like it.

 

Agreed, BUT most remaining active players have been playing/testing NA in low populated server(s) for years.

Most of those players have contributed to reach today's NA configuration, which is somehow an "expert" level that suits the existing limited player base.

"Expert" means : High amount of hours to climb the progress scale as well as high level of skill to sail ships at their best.

I got no idea about ideal solution to secure a post release "reasonable War server population", but I do know that without reaching a greater player population on a long run, a post release NA will be very disapointing. Unless you assume that NA has always been designed for a few hundreds of passionated players.

Thx for your possible further clarification

[The Spud]

@admin It doesn't need the masses, and it'll never reach the masses. Its just that the game seems to be increasingly easier as you rank up.

Its probably a good idea to state this in your game presentation somewhere, so people know its not for the faint hearted. The 7th and 6th rates are the hardest to rank up, nearly no OW targets, and traders are almost equaly gunned. It might be difficult for a new player to see that its "smooth sailing" when you reach propper 5th rate ships. As traders are easy peasy to cap, and the OW targets are less of a challenge as you rank up. 

I haven't played the tutorial in a long time, and don't know what other stuff is teached and told. I think it would be a good thing to take in consideration.
I think none of us are saying this for our direct benefit, we just want more players and want them to stick around so we can all have more fun. 

[Suppenkelle]

In this respect it might help to establish a weekly event just for basic cutters. They are free, so there is no risk of loosing something. This can be taken care of by reducing the rewards.

[Tiedemann]

Can someone craft and trade this player a Lo/Wo pickle with some carronades and repairs on it?    

[Sir Lancelot Holland]

1 hour ago, admin said:

ehm sorry i think you misread my statement.

I would love to help this guy to sink lynxes in his cutter with ease with just 3 turns and 6 broadsides in under 3 mins  (as i have to level up a new account every month to never lose touch of new player experience). But i would love to help him by reviewing his style of play and helping him to improve it. 

I have NO PLANS WHATSOEVER to dumb down the game to the so called mass market appeal and casual crowd. This game is not for everyone. And some people will not like it. 

We have no anxiety at all. Peace server is tranquil and does not have a single problem described in the post. He is a Peace server player but he is ruining his experience on the war server for no apparent reason. There is no ganking and there is zero seal clubbing on the Peace server. 

 

 

I wonder Sir, could this be an expectation issue? To the layman, war in the 'Age of Sail' has been made glamorous and popularised  by movies over the years, so, it must come as something of a shock when a game comes along that is almost as hard as it actually was. Back in the day, it took years to rate as an AB, decades to climb the ladder from an 10 year old Midshipman to  a Post Captain, most never got past Lieutenant, all in an environment where if nature, accident, or, combat did not kill or maim you, then, you were indeed fortunate. Here we are trying to learn in days or weeks what it took a lifetime to learn, even highly experienced Captains and Masters got things wrong, or, encountered something that their decades of training did not prepare them for.

I think, I would say to anyone wanting to play Naval Action that you are getting into what is very close to a wartime experience, that your early experiences will be harsh, you will have to work hard to succeed even at a low level. If you are willing to accept that, then, when you reach the top of the tree you will have earned the privilege of sailing and fighting the Victory, L'Ocean, and, the Santissima de Trinidad, they were after all the ultimate reward for years of service in their respective Nations navy's, so very few Officers achieved that status, those who could successfully fight, and, win in them were the best their Nations could provide. 

I would advise them to learn the ropes on the Peacetime server, learn how to sail your ships there, how to trade and craft, learn how to maneuver them, how to fight them. Then when you believe you are ready try the war server, do not expect to win early on, there are too many combat veterans for you to reasonably expect to win on day one, join a clan, they will help you grow, translate what you've learned on the peacetime server to the harsh reality of the wartime server. 

You will face a wide variety of opponents, from Gentlemen who may beat you around, then, let you go due to your circumstances, others will tell you where you went wrong, if you ask them, some will even volunteer information, and, of course some will simply tear your ship apart and not blink an eye.  It is a cruel arena, just as it was for those men who did this for real.

I think if that is made clear in your publicity, then, you will get the players you want to provide for, that said, i think, you will find fewer players, but, they will be there for the challenges of the game, and, not for an arcade game for sailing ships, which I think is what you are looking for. 

    

 

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

I must admit, a global introdution tutorial for ui/ow (not just the hardcore combat tutorial) will help a lot the new players to understand how they are expected to level up.

 

Also, i keep in mind that at the steam ea release, traders were sailing without guns and that was clearly easier, i think two kind of ai target should be introduced so new players can train themselves and take foot on the game more easily, like a 1-4 gun/carro lugger /yawl &  fishing ships + some ungunned/undergunned trader lynx/tbrig/ lgv with lesser cargo.

 

Also make the 6-7th rank ai turn less into the wind and not have boarding mods (marines) as it can be a mess for new players and not reprensentative of what they can expect by fighting 6-7th ranked players.

 

And at last, give fleet 1 to everyone, it's stupid for new players to win a fight vs an ai trader and not being able to bring back the cargo to get some money without sinking their own warship.

 

[Njord]

3 hours ago, admin said:

Peace server is tranquil and does not have a single problem described in the post. He is a Peace server player but he is ruining his experience on the war server for no apparent reason. There is no ganking and there is zero seal clubbing on the Peace server. 

I really wish it would be possible for everyone to grasp this simple truth but apparently some do struggle with understanding it. You can even start playing on the Peace server and then move onto the War server after you learned how to sail etc. ( if you want PvP but think the start is too rough ) .

[The Spud]

1 minute ago, Sovereign said:

I really wish it would be possible for everyone to grasp this simple truth but apparently some do struggle with understanding it. You can even start playing on the Peace server and then move onto the War server after you learned how to sail etc. ( if you want PvP but think the start is too rough ) .

Its easy to rank in PvE, but people won't bother ranking in PvE to do it all over again in PvP.

It just needs to be clear from the beginning what new players are getting into, so they don't complain afterwards. It has a steep learning curve, and it'll probably take a long time untill the player will be more or less satisfied with his own performance. The nations and clans should be encouraged to take in new members. Maybe give clans a small fee if they recruit players who've never joined a clan before, or give a small reward when a player in their clan ranks up (even if its just like 10 rig, 10 hull and 25 rum) might be enough for that extra effort.

[The Spud]

1 hour ago, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

And at last, give fleet 1 to everyone, it's stupid for new players to win a fight vs an ai trader and not being able to bring back the cargo to get some money without sinking their own warship.

 

Thats a perfect example of something a new player wouln't immediatly understand, and he will have lost allot of coins before he gets that. Altho, he will get the XP instead. But he won't have the option if he wished to use it. 

[Njord]

2 hours ago, The Spud said:

Its easy to rank in PvE, but people won't bother ranking in PvE to do it all over again in PvP.

Yeah, but if you learned how to sail on PvE you can do the exams on PvP and get the M&C rank + some goodies in like 1-2 hours. I'd argue this is good enough to get a new player started. I see your point tho.

I would like to have some lake like Guacata exclusively for new players with only a few free ports or something similar like a tutorial zone but that is probably nowhere near the priorities at the moment.

[The Spud]

58 minutes ago, Sovereign said:

Yeah, but if you learned how to sail on PvE you can do the exams on PvP and get the M&C rank + some goodies in like 1-2 hours. I'd argue this is good enough to get a new player started. I see your point tho.

I would like to have some lake like Guacata exclusively for new players with only a few free ports or something similar like a tutorial zone but that is probably nowhere near the priorities at the moment.

I think in the end all we'll be able to do is just help new players, do some missions together. thats probably the easiest. Just make some advertising in national chat. 

[reiser]

7 hours ago, admin said:

ehm sorry i think you misread my statement.

I would love to help this guy to sink lynxes in his cutter with ease with just 3 turns and 6 broadsides in under 3 mins  (as i have to level up a new account every month to never lose touch of new player experience). But i would love to help him by reviewing his style of play and helping him to improve it. 

I have NO PLANS WHATSOEVER to dumb down the game to the so called mass market appeal and casual crowd. This game is not for everyone. And some people will not like it. 

We have no anxiety at all. Peace server is tranquil and does not have a single problem described in the post. He is a Peace server player but he is ruining his experience on the war server for no apparent reason. There is no ganking and there is zero seal clubbing on the Peace server. 

 

 

I created a PVE player because I was tired of getting raped outside my capital on PVP server.  I can't leave my capital without getting ganked on PVP so...  To me, that's a really really big flaw.  I also never asked for assistance on here, just gave you my opinion of how someone sees this who came back to the game.  I played PVP server primarily before, not PVE.  But I can't get out of my capital to go sinking ships when I'm in a basic cutter and getting raped by Le Req's everytime I try to leave capital port....

[reiser]

The biggest issue with PVP server I see (as a US player) is the fact that not 3 ports away is a pirate stronghold and they camp outside of Charleston all day long preventing people from getting out.  I tried multiple times only to get tagged by some Le Req BS.  I gave you my suggestions, pro's/con's, but it's clear you all don't give a damn...

[reiser]

feel free to lock this thread because it's going nowhere.

[Jean Ribault]

23 minutes ago, reiser said:

I created a PVE player because I was tired of getting raped outside my capital on PVP server.  I can't leave my capital without getting ganked on PVP so...  To me, that's a really really big flaw.  I also never asked for assistance on here, just gave you my opinion of how someone sees this who came back to the game.  I played PVP server primarily before, not PVE.  But I can't get out of my capital to go sinking ships when I'm in a basic cutter and getting raped by Le Req's everytime I try to leave capital port....

I agree with the points you have made in this thread, and I feel your pain.  Admin has already made it clear to you however that he doesn't care, since you are not the type of player he wants on the war server.  As he stated above, he has declared you a pve player.  That's okay, so long as it's recognized this is why post-patch 27 the war server numbers have significantly dropped, and that he will never get them back again in this configuration of the game.  If that's what's planned so be it.  Less than 200 players online in war server in US primetime.  Personally I'm also done on the war server.  I used to like to play both but it is no longer viable gameplay, so unfortunately not worth the time anymore.  So what needs to be done now is some attention paid to make the peace server more exciting for those who have transferred over completely.

Edited November 19, 2018 by Jean Ribault

[AeRoTR]

Developers must felt safezone to be too secure, ranking up of new players too easy. 

So they came with a DLC solution. The Le Requin, the perfect safezone noob raping ship. 

Same rape parties going around Brit capitol. We used to have good Revenge Fleet, great battles happened around KPR. Now it is only le troll fleets and some hercs (easly dealt with) . No veteran pvp player will fight against Le troll, I tried that many times, saved many new guys in my Prince etc. But it is tiresome, I mostly skip it now. 

I do agree it is very difficult for a new guy to start in Us or Brit capitol after dlc ships. 

Make Capitol Zones Great again! 

Until some rank this game should be much more welcoming to new players. Make them untaggable in green? Invincible in green etc. There comes the ALTs :), make rookies protected for 10-15 OW hours? 

[AeRoTR]

18 minutes ago, Jean Ribault said:

Admin has already made it clear to you however that he doesn't care, since you are not the type of player he wants on the war server.

We all were PVE players, aside from those guys who killed 5 enemy in his 10th hour, commanded port battle in his 15th hour, we all know those few guys, but remaining of hundreds of veterans, we were the pve guy until some time, 500 hours, 1000 hours... 

[Jean Ribault]

5 minutes ago, AeRoTR said:

We all were PVE players, aside from those guys who killed 5 enemy in his 10th hour, commanded port battle in his 15th hour, we all know those few guys, but remaining of hundreds of veterans, we were the pve guy until some time, 500 hours, 1000 hours... 

You are probably right there, but the difference now is you are not really welcome on the war server ("you" meaning the pve type player, and this better phrased might say your playstyle is not appreciated), whereas prior to this most playstyles were tolerable and even enjoyable on the war/pvp server.  The advantage to that, as @Christendom points out, is the increase in player numbers which is more fun for all players no matter what the playstyle.

....starting to float away from topic though, so we should cease and desist on this subject. 

Edited November 19, 2018 by Jean Ribault

[Angus MacDuff]

2 minutes ago, Jean Ribault said:

You are probably right there, but the difference now is you are not really welcome on the war server ("you" meaning the pve type player, and this better phrased might say your playstyle is not appreciated), whereas prior to this most playstyles were tolerable and even enjoyable on the war/pvp server.  The advantage to that, as @Christendom points out, is the increase in player numbers which is more fun for all players no matter what the playstyle.

I think its unfair to say that the War Server population does not tolerate a particular play style.  If a player is still trying to play the same way that he did before the patch, then that is not sustainable.  The rules have changed and we have to adapt our styles to suit.  I've been making major changes in my play style and I expect many others have as well.  Yes, the pure PVP'ers still go out and kill everything, but anyone who trades, must modify his behaviour or suffer.  Even solo hunting has shifted radically

[Barbancourt]

2 hours ago, Sovereign said:

Yeah, but if you learned how to sail on PvE you can do the exams on PvP and get the M&C rank + some goodies in like 1-2 hours. I'd argue this is good enough to get a new player started. I see your point tho.

"learning how to sail" is easy.  Figuring out how not to get constantly curbstomped by everyone is what takes years, and you'll never get that out of PVE or out of the curbstompings, and certainly not out of farming AI t-brigs and LGVs for daBalloons all day. 

Edited November 19, 2018 by Barbancourt