Cannot progress on War server

[reiser]

First off let me say I'm a big fan of the concept of the game.

As an old player (first hit steam) I fell in love with the gameplay mechanics and the sailing aspects of the game.  It's the best. I've played Voyage of the Century / Bounty Bay Online - Pirates of the Burning Sea - Sid Meiers Pirates - and the like.  This is a game we've all been waiting for!  That is, until they wen't and broke the game.

 

Pros:

• New UI! - It's great, it finally feels like a polished game!
• Ships! - A ship for every occasion!
• Cannons! - Broadsiding never felt so good!
• Fleets and Multiplayer - Bring your friends to the fight, work together, coordinate!

Cons:

• No trade ship spawns - new players have no choice but to grind missions
• Tier 7 missions - grab a basic cutter and head out to make money only to face a Lynx or some other Tier 7 ship that takes you to task.  There's no hope in the noob cutter. Don't even bother.
• Base Raping - USA on PVP server constantly has enemies outside Charleston making any new player rage quit. I lost my only non-noob ship (Traders Brig) after doing a mission only to be sucked into a battle with 3 pirate players. Either the invul timer needs to be extended or National Capitals should be off limits to other nations.
• Grind - One Tier 7 mission awards less than 50xp and less than 1000 reals, I would need to grind 20 of these to afford a ship w/ guns, only to fall victim to base raping as stated above.
• Imbalance of ships.  Tier 7 missions should ONLY spawn cutters for your basic cutter, I've failed 5 missions in a row because I would just get dominated and out gunned. This isn't what the new player experience should be. I was forced to do this because of base raping as stated above (no other ships to use)
• Trading - Buy Low / Sell High - I should be rewarded for hauling goods far away, but when you look at the buy/sell prices, a lot of goods don't have a trade route at all.
• Taxes - Adding tax for everything only makes sense when there's a way to reduce it. Port tax is understandable but taxes to place a contract, to collect from labor buildings all needs to go. There's no point unless there's a skill/method for reducing it. It only adds ambiguity to commerce and makes it really easy to lose money on something that looks like a sure bet for profit.

 

This is my experience coming back to the game after the UI changes. I have my XP from way back when but I have no ships, no money, no guns/goods, and I'm constantly up against a brick wall with base raping, noob missions that just destroy the crap out of you. I've done the tutorials, don't tell me "get good".  I hit with almost every cannon and still get sunk in the basic noob missions.

I don't know why I continue playing considering all the cons, maybe it's wishful thinking but as it stands, the game is broken. The XP/Money curve for this game is worst than Eve Online, which is legendary of punishing new players.  If you want more players, you need to fix Tier 7/6 missions to be easier to complete, you need to protect nation capitals from base raping pirates/players.  There should be a buffer zone around the capital that other nations can't attack within.  If you want new players to stick around that is.  If it wasn't for the generosity of my nation, I would have rage quit already.  What the hell happened to this game? It used to be hard, but do-able. Now it's damn near impossible as a solo captain.

 

Fix your game!!!  I spent good money on this game and it's been sitting in my Steam library for 2+ years waiting for you guys to finish up the development, only for you guys to completely eliminate any solo captain opportunities.  Stop listening to the vocal minority and start looking at stats. If you don't have stats on what works and what doesn't then you're doing it wrong.

 

And before people post their hate responses know this. I played a LOT of the game at early access launch, I also had a dozen or so friends that bought the game based on my recommendations at the time. But because of the above bullets, none of them play anymore.  One of my friends said "I'd rather have a coronary than lose over and over again. I quit".

 

Do not cater to end-game players, you need to soften the curve for new players if you want the game to grow.

[reiser]

Also, I tagged a Belle Poule in CT port only to see that the port gunners are asleep.  They never fired a shot.  Even with the Belle Poule right under their noses, they just sat there.  There must have been 100 yards from the Port Gunnery Tower (60 guns) and not a single one fired upon the enemy.  That to me says it all...

[Anolytic]

6 hours ago, reiser said:

Also, I tagged a Belle Poule in CT port only to see that the port gunners are asleep.  They never fired a shot.  Even with the Belle Poule right under their noses, they just sat there.  There must have been 100 yards from the Port Gunnery Tower (60 guns) and not a single one fired upon the enemy.  That to me says it all...

Forts and towers only fire on players, not NPCs. Otherwise it would be just too easy.

I can agree that the starting grind is too hard, and the economy is hard to begin with. You shouldn't rely on missions, but on OW fleets, but the Bahamas is not a realistic alternative always. And while the tutorial can give you a good start, not everyone wants to start there. Some want to explore a little first.

Taxes on everything is alright. But safe-zones should be truly safe, and it would be an idea if distance was more of a factor in trade routes, although trade is actually pretty good now.

[Barbancourt]

7 hours ago, reiser said:

• Tier 7 missions - grab a basic cutter and head out to make money only to face a Lynx or some other Tier 7 ship that takes you to task.  There's no hope in the noob cutter. Don't even bother.
• ..
• Imbalance of ships.  Tier 7 missions should ONLY spawn cutters for your basic cutter, I've failed 5 missions in a row because I would just get dominated and out gunned. This isn't what the new player experience should be. I was forced to do this because of base raping as stated above (no other ships to use)

I'm not sure I understand the first item - when I started with Basic Cutter and Yacht I used to accumulate repairs and XP by camping a Lynx spawn, killing it repeatedly.  Dozens of times.  Fighting Lynx was the highest reward/risk ratio of any 7th Rate.  Privateer are a bit harder.  However, you lose very little using a Basic Cutter against other fore-aft ships.

Missions used to be harder.  At least now you know how many ships you will face in the mission.  It used to be random, and you could enter your mission and find yourself facing 2-3 larger ships. 

 

Edited November 18, 2018 by Barbancourt

[Draymoor]

I don't know what you mean by no trade ship spawns, there's quite a lot of trade ship spawns. Many areas are even nearly untouched by most players where it's possible to hunt them freely.

Currently it's not that hard to make money as a starting players, completing even tier 7 hunt or search and destroy missions takes some time but it awards you a lot of doubloons which you can sell to more advanced players for a good amount of money. Traders can also give tons of money with some luck. 

Base camping by PVP players is definitely a broken part of the system and trading is good but it does need adjustments as you said, there's no shortage of trade routes that do give some good profits though, specially if you are willing to try some smuggling. 

I don't see any issues with taxes though, it's just a money sink, it's annoying surely but it doesn't really affect things that much in the end. 

I would agree that the amount of reales gained from battles is too low. Just now I sank 9 5th rates and gained barely 17 000 reales, which is the cost of 1 1/2  frigates from admiralty. For new players at least it would be good to have a more direct way of making some starter cash. 



 

[Capn Rocko]

There should be a true safe zone for big nations. I just don't argue for it anymore because the PvP zone RoE is crap. I get better quality PvP at capitals. 

But I agree, many new players get driven away because of the capital camping. On the other hand, I got ganked by 2 rattlesnakes during my first 5 minutes of playing naval action and I fell in love with the game. But I know I am an odd ball. 

[Bluetooth]

PvP zone ROE if done properly would take the pressure from the safe zones.

However safe zones should only be for low level players anyway.

The trading economy should be 5 x more profitable than it is now to encourage trading and recoup losses.

The AI distribution is good imo because it makes players explore the big world otherwise it is to easy to become safe zone reliant.

Remember there was no safe zone once and the population was actually bigger. To much reliance on safety nets will hamper development of players skills but for low level players it is needed if you use a PvP reward system as the game does now. 

Ai bots can be dangerous in combat now if used correctly and I think as a whole the game is moving the right way.

Crying, however has never been as bad in game as it is now. Now a different BR is considered a gank and that's a bit sad. 

 

Edited November 18, 2018 by Pirate Blackbeard

[Gregory Rainsborough]

15 hours ago, reiser said:

Base Raping - USA on PVP server constantly has enemies outside Charleston making any new player rage quit.

That's because the USA went around declaring war on everyone and then acted surprised when everyone went and started taking their ports.

Maybe go to Crown Haven or Mangrove rather than staying at the capital? A bit of common sense wouldn't go amiss.

Edited November 18, 2018 by Gregory Rainsborough

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, Gregory Rainsborough said:

Maybe go to Crown Haven or Mangrove rather than staying at the capital? A bit of common sense wouldn't go amiss.

true, there are tons of places in this game which is more or less dead, places in the mexico gulf and panama  area are great examples. You will also find alot more ai in these waters and the missions will give better rewards.

Now I know the game and how most things work, but on my alt which i switch between nations to test things its not impossible.

Edited November 18, 2018 by Guest

[traitorous mctraitoro]

Most people who defend the raiding of capitals and safe zones or who see no problem with it, are all people who never had the problem early on, or who had it so little it didn't matter. 

Now, most newbs lose Thier ships before even trying it. They can't even get started and set up, they have only one ship, and can never afford anymore or make any money to be able to make more money.

This i think is the problem.

[Tom Farseer]

I share your opinion that safe zones should be safe. And AI traders should sail deeper into enemy waters to give newbies more adequate prey. I felt free to leave my two cents on your list of cons:

16 hours ago, reiser said:

Cons:

• No trade ship spawns - new players have no choice but to grind missions
• Yes and no: The are trade ship spawns galore, but you need to leave your capital waters to find them, as they spawn in ports of thier own nationality.
• Tier 7 missions - grab a basic cutter and head out to make money only to face a Lynx or some other Tier 7 ship that takes you to task.  There's no hope in the noob cutter. Don't even bother.
• Basic Cutters are seriously undervalued and can take on even larger ships in capable hands. It's not about the whole 'gid gud' BS. But if you are losing to AI Lynxes you are doing something wrong. Analyse what you are doing and try to identify your mistakes. My first guess would be that you take on too much damage by not keeping the right angles to the enemy ship. Patience is key here. Always keep at an angle and wait until the AI has shot it's broadside which you then will mostly bounce. Only turn parallel to shoot AFTER that has happend.
• Base Raping - USA on PVP server constantly has enemies outside Charleston making any new player rage quit. I lost my only non-noob ship (Traders Brig) after doing a mission only to be sucked into a battle with 3 pirate players. Either the invul timer needs to be extended or National Capitals should be off limits to other nations.
• Sucks and IMO should not be possible they way it is at the moment. My advice: get the hell away from your capital waters. The same shit happens in GB capital waters (mybe no longer as bad as it was a few months ago) and around mortimer town. Capital waters are unsafe for newbies as well as returning players period.
• Grind - One Tier 7 mission awards less than 50xp and less than 1000 reals, I would need to grind 20 of these to afford a ship w/ guns, only to fall victim to base raping as stated above.
• Again, leaving capital waters will help with that. you will ifnd more AI traders which bring in more revenue.
• Imbalance of ships.  Tier 7 missions should ONLY spawn cutters for your basic cutter, I've failed 5 missions in a row because I would just get dominated and out gunned. This isn't what the new player experience should be. I was forced to do this because of base raping as stated above (no other ships to use)
• See Answer to point two.
• Trading - Buy Low / Sell High - I should be rewarded for hauling goods far away, but when you look at the buy/sell prices, a lot of goods don't have a trade route at all.
• That's just plain wrong. EVERY trading good can be bought and sold at a profit. You just have to find the right ports to do so. Felix Victor's map in combination with the ingame trader tool can help a lot with that.
• Taxes - Adding tax for everything only makes sense when there's a way to reduce it. Port tax is understandable but taxes to place a contract, to collect from labor buildings all needs to go. There's no point unless there's a skill/method for reducing it. It only adds ambiguity to commerce and makes it really easy to lose money on something that looks like a sure bet for profit.
• While a nuisance on AI controlled ports, taxes are the only way any capturable port can pay for itself or generate revenue.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, traitorous mctraitoro said:

Most people who defend the raiding of capitals and safe zones or who see no problem with it, are all people who never had the problem early on, or who had it so little it didn't matter. 

Now, most newbs lose Thier ships before even trying it. They can't even get started and set up, they have only one ship, and can never afford anymore or make any money to be able to make more money.

This i think is the problem.

would love if the ai fleets would chase hostile players out from the reinforcement zone until the player is outside of the zone

[Havelock]

This is extremely valuable feedback from a new player perspective. Hope @admin to read this instead of 200th topic about multirepairs.

Some advice to @reiser on how to make this even better:

• Since this topic contains feedback rather than a suggestion, "Patch Feedback and General discussions" probably wouldve been the better subforum
• "Broken Game" is a really bad topic description since it gives no hint on what is broken. Technical issue, bugs, economy problems, RoE...? A fitting alteration would be "Broken new player experience", which would conclude in your main post with what you think is broken and why (and ideally, how to change it, then it would fit "Suggestion" subforum)

[Iroquois Confederacy]

I myself was once an advocate of no safe zones - but over time I have come to believe that safe zones should be more safe.  I think this patch did an excellent job about moving people out of protected zones, which was always my big complaint.  Now I think the next step should be something like allowing any player, attacker or defender, initiator or someone who joined in later, who is part of the reinforcement zone faction, to call reinforcements.  It simplifies complicated ROE for players who already have a lot to take in.

[admin]

you are not supposed to kill ships right and left on your first evening. You are supposed to practice and learn the ropes, upgrade you ship and THEN you will succeed. 

Example of missions for light ships

7th rate
Sink 1 7th rate
Sink 2 7th rate 
Sink 1 6th rate

6th rate
Sink 2 7th rates
Sink 1 6th rate
Sink 1 5th rate

All those missions are well tested on new players and all have 80% completion rate. As a result they are all rated 1 star (easy) because 80% of players have no problem with them. We know rear admirals do not do them as they provide no challenge and no reward. 

 

[admin]

23 hours ago, reiser said:

I've done the tutorials, don't tell me "get good".  I hit with almost every cannon and still get sunk in the basic noob missions.

If you have done the tutorials why do you feel the need to sail the basic cutter? Final exam gives you a permanent M&C rank + some good money.

I would love to see the video of your combat example (cutter vs any 7th rate or 6th rate) so we can give you friendly tips instead to help you get good, AND see something we dont see ourselves. Send it to the PM

[Njord]

23 hours ago, reiser said:

Do not cater to end-game players, you need to soften the curve for new players if you want the game to grow.

I completely agree here. It is very vital for a mmo. The only end-game content, within what NA has to offer at the moment, should be RvR and being able to field a fleet of 1-3rd rates with your clan. 

I think shop ships / NPC ships should be cheaper and there should always be traders cutters available ( this ship has no valid place in the game anyways, wouldn't this be a good idea? who ever crafted a traders cutter to actually use it? ). NPC ships seem to be only very basic ships without bonus slots or trims and always have crew space "planking" anyways, so clearly inferiour to crafting in this regard.

As long as the shop ships cost some reals but are very cheap, people can always move out in the next ship after getting sunk. Still better than DLC ships, from a economical point of view.

Keeps poor new players and plebs in their ships, and the ocean filled with targets... everyone's happy.

[Slim McSauce]

24 minutes ago, admin said:

you are not supposed to kill ships right and left on your first evening. You are supposed to practice and learn the ropes, upgrade you ship and THEN you will succeed. 

Example of missions for light ships

7th rate
Sink 1 7th rate
Sink 2 7th rate 
Sink 1 6th rate

6th rate
Sink 2 7th rates
Sink 1 6th rate
Sink 1 5th rate

All those missions are well tested on new players and all have 80% completion rate. As a result they are all rated 1 star (easy) because 80% of players have no problem with them. We know rear admirals do not do them as they provide no challenge and no reward. 

 

The journey too the missions and back is what's killing new players. I don't think anyone expects to be ganked 20 seconds from the start of the first area you start in.

[Draymoor]

51 minutes ago, admin said:

All those missions are well tested on new players and all have 80% completion rate. As a result they are all rated 1 star (easy) because 80% of players have no problem with them. We know rear admirals do not do them as they provide no challenge and no reward. 

 

On this @admin, missions for more advanced players are giving very small rewards. A mission to sink 8 7th rates can give 400 doubloons and a mission to sink 8 1st rates can give as little as 1000 doubloons. Kill missions have tiny rewards. My clan mates won't even consider doing a 'kill 2 4th rates for 50 doubloons'. A lot of people love this game and would happily grind and spend many hours on it but the rewards being so small takes away a lot of motivation to do it. We have to pay 5000 doubloons for 1 1st rate skill book while sinking 10 1st rates gives only 1200 doubloons as reward. Crafting a 4th rate is 2500 doubloons, but to get that much you have to sink 20 fourth rates, it's far too unbalanced and even more if you're doing kill missions. 

Edited November 18, 2018 by Draymoor

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Draymoor said:

On this @admin, missions for more advanced players are giving very small rewards. A mission to sink 8 7th rates can give 400 doubloons and a mission to sink 8 1st rates can give as little as 1000 doubloons. Kill missions have tiny rewards. My clan mates won't even consider doing a 'kill 2 4th rates for 50 doubloons'. A lot of people love this game and would happily grind and spend many hours on it but the rewards being so small takes away a lot of motivation to do it. We have to 5000 doubloons for 1 1st rate skill book while sinking 10 1st rates gives only 1200 doubloons as reward. Crafting a 4th rate is 2500 doubloons, but to get that much you have to sink 20 fourth rates, it's far too unbalanced and even more if you're doing kill missions. 

besides, people farm these missions with their requins since they 2 shot every other shallow ship in boarding

Edited November 18, 2018 by Guest

[Draymoor]

8 minutes ago, Wyy said:

besides, people farm these missions with their requins since they 2 shot every other shallow ship in boarding

Even worse. 

[reiser]

53 minutes ago, admin said:

you are not supposed to kill ships right and left on your first evening. You are supposed to practice and learn the ropes, upgrade you ship and THEN you will succeed. 

Example of missions for light ships

7th rate
Sink 1 7th rate
Sink 2 7th rate 
Sink 1 6th rate

6th rate
Sink 2 7th rates
Sink 1 6th rate
Sink 1 5th rate

All those missions are well tested on new players and all have 80% completion rate. As a result they are all rated 1 star (easy) because 80% of players have no problem with them. We know rear admirals do not do them as they provide no challenge and no reward. 

 

This is counter to pretty much every game out on the market, it's not intuitive and is really bad mechanics.  If you get a new player and they see they can take missions out of their capital but you say NOT to go sinking ships, you're priorities for getting new players into the game is flawed.

[reiser]

23 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

The journey too the missions and back is what's killing new players. I don't think anyone expects to be ganked 20 seconds from the start of the first area you start in.

Nail meet head....

[Guest]

5 hours ago, admin said:

f you have done the tutorials why do you feel the need to sail the basic cutter? Final exam gives you a permanent M&C rank + some good money.

I would love to see the video of your combat example (cutter vs any 7th rate or 6th rate) so we can give you friendly tips instead to help you get good, AND see something we dont see ourselves. Send it to the PM

You’re too late admin, “can’t go all concern like now!” being so close to release (and rushing too).

Game already had a steep learning curve, now with all missions difficulty level increasing at such a rate, it has turn the learning curve into a momentous mountain of effort, you’ve promoted this.

No room for causals and solo’s, the game is clan based, simulated hardcore sailing, ship of the line gameplay, you’ve promoted this.

Low rewarding missions and missions setup to push new players, all players, out into the OW and to push them into long journey’s to create more PvP content, you’ve promoted this. 

NPCs suited for low level players to raid removed so they can’t resource themselves locally, forcing them afar, thus adding to PvP content, you’re promoted this.

The concept of a single shallow water conflict zone, and with such a concentration zone, that only vets can survive in, you’ve promoted this.

Above facts are in all the posts since patch 27 as feedback, and you're stuck with vets and there hardcore themes and ignored any post that didn't conform, you’ve promoted this too.

With all the hardcore themes, which of that you have pushed, It would be hypocritical of you to show any anxiety or apprehension now.

The game state is of your promotion. 😊

 

 

Edited November 19, 2018 by Guest

[Tom Farseer]

1 hour ago, jonnysweden said:

Sorry mate

Nobody said it to you but i will

NA is not for everyone and if you don't want to learn to overcome the challenge -  this means the game is not for you.
Uninstall it please. Have peace and love

r/gatekeeping anyone?